430 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

dreamgazer wrote...

I think open ME1-style exploration with a tweaked Hammerhead sounds like fun.

Can I swap out that Hammerhead for a tweaked Mako?

[Dean_the_Young]

AlanC9 wrote...


He's got a point, though. Simply killing the Catalyst isn't emotionally satisfying to some folks; they want to deliver a big damn speech and then kill him.

So... they would have failed the Evil Overlord List for a villain that many feel failed the Evil Overlord List?

Cute.

[dreamgazer]

Han Shot First wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I think open ME1-style exploration with a tweaked Hammerhead sounds like fun.

Can I swap out that Hammerhead for a tweaked Mako?

Well, yeah, I ultimately agree with that, but I was mostly commenting on Street's enjoyment of the Hammerhead.

A choice between the two, with benefits and downfalls for each one (speed vs. durability), would be neat. 

[AlanC9]

[quote]Mcfly616 wrote...

[/quote] KotOR is in my top 5 best games ever. And while it did have good amount of empty areas, there was still exploration and enough variety in the planets, that I felt like I was on an actual journey (doing all the things a journey entails: exploring the unknown, find loot, meeting friends and foes, and sometimes killing stuff).

The Mass Effect sequels didn't even make it seem like I was role-playing a character on a mission traversing the galaxy. 
[/quote]

Wait a second. A journey entails finding loot and exploring the unknown? Surely not all journeys. You're talking about a particular type of journey, I think.

For me ME1's exploration made the role-playing worse, not better. Why is Shepard doing this stuff? Because it's an RPG and RPGs have sidequests and exploration?

ME2 is a good deal better, if you can swallow that Shepard has nothing better to do than poke around into various already-charted systems and hope he stumbles across something. There's not much  exploration of unknown parts of the galaxy in ME; except for Jacob's LM and Ilos; everyplace else on the map has been charted.  ME3's rationale is adequate too; since Normandy's one of only a handful of stealth ships, anything in Reaper-controlled space is likely lost to the war effort unless Shepard recovers it, and in any event Shepard really does have time to burn since the war can't be won until the Crucible is complete.

[quote]
I guess I'm a little old school. I like to work to get through a game. I like to explore in order to find upgrades. Like to do specific things in order to level up. I don't care if I die over and over, as long as I persevere it's all worth it. Hard earned things give the best satisfaction. Games are too easy nowadays. Too linear. Too much alike.
[/quote]

What does linear have to do with easy?

But yeah, background counts. I come from PnP, where exploration usually doesn't drive the game and the better systems aren't very loot-focused.

Modifié par AlanC9, 27 janvier 2014 - 10:11 .

[AlanC9]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
He's got a point, though. Simply killing the Catalyst isn't emotionally satisfying to some folks; they want to deliver a big damn speech and then kill him.

So... they would have failed the Evil Overlord List for a villain that many feel failed the Evil Overlord List?

Cute.

Sure. There's a reason that so many Evil Overlords fail. 

[liggy002]

StreetMagic wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

it's an ugly cycle though. Me2 was probably developed in relation to negative feedback to ME1 as well. I mean, we lost the Mako in that one. Some jerkass fans gave them the impression that exploration sucks.

Yep. That one was my fault.

Mako definitely needed to be tweaked.. I just don't think you need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Agreed... controls needed to be improved and quite possibly some new upgrades, added features to the vehicle.

[ImaginaryMatter]

AlanC9 wrote...

For me ME1's exploration made the role-playing worse, not better. Why is Shepard doing this stuff? Because it's an RPG and RPGs have sidequests and exploration?

Aren't half of the sidequests in ME1 doing missions or 'favors' for Hacket? I thought doing those kind of missions was what the Normandy was made for. So, at least for these missions, isn't Shepard just doing his job?

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
He's got a point, though. Simply killing the Catalyst isn't emotionally satisfying to some folks; they want to deliver a big damn speech and then kill him.

So... they would have failed the Evil Overlord List for a villain that many feel failed the Evil Overlord List?

Cute.

Sure. There's a reason that so many Evil Overlords fail. 

What's wrong with a good old fashioned The Reason You Suck speech?

[Mcfly616]

AlanC9 wrote...


What does linear have to do with easy?

I'd rather do a puzzle or explore and look around for the treasure and have a sense of discovery, rather than just stumbling on it due to the fact that it's conveniently placed on the path I'm being herded through

[chemiclord]

Mcfly616 wrote...

As I said, just because things could've been better doesn't mean you completely disregard them. You refine them. So you take the cookie-cutter pirate bases and actually add variety (research facilities, Colonist settlements, ruins), you refine the clunky floatiness of the mako, you add deserts and rainforests instead of just mountains. You take the overflowing inventory system and streamline whilst adding a bit more aesthetic variety.....you don't just completely butcher these things a la ME2. Don't even get me started on that games powers.

My point is, exploration was a big part of what made ME1 so immersive and wonderful for me. It made me feel awe, like I was just a grain of sand in an ocean. It made me feel like I was out there exploring the final frontier. Finding downed satellites, skeletal remains of those that came before me, leaving me to speculate as to what had brought their demise. Idk it was the icing for me, and I had no icing in the sequels.

The shooter genre is overpopulated. Bioware should stop trying to join the ranks of full-fledged shooters, and try getting back to their rpg roots.

There's a saying that goes, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."

As a general rule, if your fans don't like something... that well is already spoiled, and no amount of tweaking is going to change their minds.  They hate it, and they AREN'T going to like it... EVER.  You try and introduce the "tweaked version" and fans will roll their eyes and scoff, and snarkily wonder why you're still trying that stupid thing no one likes.

It's real easy to say a company should simply tweak something that the fan base responded negatively to.  When it's YOUR money on the line... I think you'd find you'd be a LOT less willing to take that gamble.

[AlanC9]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

For me ME1's exploration made the role-playing worse, not better. Why is Shepard doing this stuff? Because it's an RPG and RPGs have sidequests and exploration?

Aren't half of the sidequests in ME1 doing missions or 'favors' for Hacket? I thought doing those kind of missions was what the Normandy was made for. So, at least for these missions, isn't Shepard just doing his job?

Sure, once you've blundered into the system Hackett asks you to do stuff. But what's Normandy doing in that system in the first place?

Modifié par AlanC9, 28 janvier 2014 - 03:01 .

[Mcfly616]

chemiclord wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

As I said, just because things could've been better doesn't mean you completely disregard them. You refine them. So you take the cookie-cutter pirate bases and actually add variety (research facilities, Colonist settlements, ruins), you refine the clunky floatiness of the mako, you add deserts and rainforests instead of just mountains. You take the overflowing inventory system and streamline whilst adding a bit more aesthetic variety.....you don't just completely butcher these things a la ME2. Don't even get me started on that games powers.

My point is, exploration was a big part of what made ME1 so immersive and wonderful for me. It made me feel awe, like I was just a grain of sand in an ocean. It made me feel like I was out there exploring the final frontier. Finding downed satellites, skeletal remains of those that came before me, leaving me to speculate as to what had brought their demise. Idk it was the icing for me, and I had no icing in the sequels.

The shooter genre is overpopulated. Bioware should stop trying to join the ranks of full-fledged shooters, and try getting back to their rpg roots.

There's a saying that goes, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."

As a general rule, if your fans don't like something... that well is already spoiled, and no amount of tweaking is going to change their minds.  They hate it, and they AREN'T going to like it... EVER.  You try and introduce the "tweaked version" and fans will roll their eyes and scoff, and snarkily wonder why you're still trying that stupid thing no one likes.

It's real easy to say a company should simply tweak something that the fan base responded negatively to.  When it's YOUR money on the line... I think you'd find you'd be a LOT less willing to take that gamble.

Look no further than the complaints about Harbinger's trolling in ME2, and then the the complaints due to his absence in ME3. Just because you have complaints doesn't mean you throw out the entire concept.


That's like your car running like crap because you need an oil change, and you just junk it instead. That's a good approach.

[TurianRebel212]

StreetMagic wrote...

How can anyone not like Harbinger?

This old trailer doesn't get cool until Harbinger speaks.

Harbinger was cool. Wasted in ME3. Shame. 

Harbinger!!!!!



www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par TurianRebel212, 28 janvier 2014 - 03:20 .

[Ultim Asari]

I know I will be drawn and quartered for this, but I enjoyed ME3 and actually prefer it over the other two.

[kalerab]

Han Shot First wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I think open ME1-style exploration with a tweaked Hammerhead sounds like fun.

Can I swap out that Hammerhead for a tweaked Mako?

I remember discussions in old BW forum when ME2 was in development. Vast majority asked for Mako serious tweking (stumle on a rock, catapult yourself to time-space vacuum) and or outright removal. Basically you didn´t have anyone that enjoyed the endless climbing atop of that particular planet mount Everest.

[Iakus]

StreetMagic wrote...

If there was one thing I could tell them, it's that I wouldn't ever want them to feel bad about their work on ME2. Whoever made them second guess themselves needs to be kicked in the face.

ME2 was still quite a flawed game.

Though interstingly, ME3 takes most of ME2's flaws and greatly magnifies them.  The sidelined characters, the railroaded plot, etc

[Mcfly616]

Ultim Asari wrote...

I know I will be drawn and quartered for this, but I enjoyed ME3 and actually prefer it over the other two.

I agree in some ways. Imo it's probably the best overall game in the trilogy. However, the things I find most important when it comes to my gaming experience, I find ME1 does the best....therefore it's my favorite.

[chemiclord]

StreetMagic wrote..

They don't give a lot of their ideas a chance to even incubate. One hint of negativity and they reinvent the wheel? wtf. That's why the ME2 squad is probably gone in ME3. Some **** complained and now I have pay for it. Same goes for the Mako. lol

Well, I suspect the "anyone and everyone can die" mechanic of the Suicide Mission has more to do with ME2 squadmates getting pushed off stage whenever possible than fan feedback.  They were probably blanching enough with permutations from Garrus ALONE being an active squaddie for ME3, and why there had to be heavy push from fans AND writers to get Tali wedged in late in development (and in the story).

Honestly, when I finished ME2, my first thought... well my first thought was, "The hell was that reject from a James Cameron film about?"

But ONE of my first thoughts was, "Man... how the hell are they going to manage all the permutations they created with another game on the horizon?"

Turns out the answer was, "They didn't."