102 réponses à ce sujet

[Sundance31us]

General TSAR wrote...

Sundance31us wrote...

Kaidan Orientation/Romance Triggers:

Sirta Supplies (via the kiosk in Huerta Memorial Hospital or the procurement terminal in the Normandy's shuttle bay) - Do not purchase the "TM88 - Peruvian Whiskey".

Are you serious?

I did that to be nice, a man needs a good bottle after almost getting his skull caved in by a homicidal sexbot.

It's definitely a trigger, though it doesn't lock the romance.

The "lock" happens during the brunch with Kaiden he'll tell you how he feels, if you go with the bottom right response (you consider him a brother) you'll be fine.

[jtav]

Romanced FShep doesn't cradle Kaidan. AFAIK, that's only an Ash thing.

[Br3admax]

General TSAR wrote...

Sundance31us wrote...

Kaidan Orientation/Romance Triggers:

Sirta Supplies (via the kiosk in Huerta Memorial Hospital or the procurement terminal in the Normandy's shuttle bay) - Do not purchase the "TM88 - Peruvian Whiskey".

Are you serious?

I did that to be nice, a man needs a good bottle after almost getting his skull caved in by a homicidal sexbot.

No, Kaiden romance is triggered no matter what you do. That's how romance works in ME3. Be nice, and they'll try to make a pass at you. Be mean, and they'll try to make a pass at you. Just ignore them if you don't want them flirting with you. 

[jtav]

That's not true, actually. If you're dismissive of the VS on Mars, they won't want to romance you. A new romance with Liara can also be locked out if you don't confide in her.

[DeinonSlayer]

Sundance31us wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Sundance31us wrote...

Kaidan Orientation/Romance Triggers:

Sirta Supplies (via the kiosk in Huerta Memorial Hospital or the procurement terminal in the Normandy's shuttle bay) - Do not purchase the "TM88 - Peruvian Whiskey".

Are you serious?

I did that to be nice, a man needs a good bottle after almost getting his skull caved in by a homicidal sexbot.

It's definitely a trigger, though it doesn't lock the romance.

The "lock" happens during the brunch with Kaiden he'll tell you how he feels, if you go with the bottom right response (you consider him a brother) you'll be fine.

I did not know the whiskey counted as a "primer." I take it getting Tennyson for Ashley works the same way? Have the triggers been documented for all romances? The VS seems more complicated than anyone else. Garrus, Tali and (to my recollection - she didn't remember the break up in LotSB for Garrus) Liara pretty much ask you off the bat, but the VS confirmation is almost at the tail end of your interaction with them.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:27 .

[Br3admax]

jtav wrote...

That's not true, actually. If you're dismissive of the VS on Mars, they won't want to romance you. A new romance with Liara can also be locked out if you don't confide in her.

I've done that, both still asked if I was interested later in the story. 

[Khavos]

Optimystic_X wrote...

None of the scenes you've described so far qualify as romance. Unless you want buttsex with everyone you've ever been concerned about.

They certainly seemed romantic, which is why I asked.

Perhaps it's merely me.  While I've never seen a friend get beaten up by a robot, I've been around when friends have been wounded in combat.  My response was never to stare with a strange combination of woe and hunger at them afterward.  

But having gotten a bit further on, I can see what you're saying.  Shepard in general seems to have gotten quite a bit softer/more beta with his interpersonal dealings for this one.  I'm not enthused.  

Modifié par Khavos, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:36 .

[jtav]

They didn't me. I think the invisible relationship scale must come into play here somehow.

[Navasha]

Yeah, they really over did the emotion on that scene for either of the Virmire survivors. I mean this person betrayed you, abandoned you, and finally doesn't even trust you when you are forced to re-unite.

The writers are obviously more forgiving people then I would be.

[dreamgazer]

Khavos wrote...

Perhaps it's merely me.  While I've never seen a friend get beaten up by a robot, I've been around when friends have been wounded in combat.  My response was never to stare with a strange combination of woe and hunger at them afterward.

Not sure where you're getting "hunger" from, but yes, Shepard's concerned about the life of the other half of the Virmire situation, and they're in a relatively safe environment at that point. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:42 .

[Ferretinabun]

Khavos wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

None of the scenes you've described so far qualify as romance. Unless you want buttsex with everyone you've ever been concerned about.

They certainly seemed romantic, which is why I asked.

Perhaps it's merely me.  While I've never seen a friend get beaten up by a robot, I've been around when friends have been wounded in combat.  My response was never to stare with a strange combination of woe and hunger at them afterward.  

But having gotten a bit further on, I can see what you're saying.  Shepard in general seems to have gotten quite a bit softer/more beta with his interpersonal dealings for this one.  I'm not enthused.  

Pretty much, but it's not limited to Kaidan. I think Bioware's affection for Mass Effect leaked into ME3 and, since this is their last hurrah, everyone's all very "I love you guys!" There's quite a bromance subtext in your interactions with a lot of the male crew, as I recall (yes Garrus, I'm looking at you).

But no, it's pretty obvious when you're locking yourself into a romance - with Kaidan or anyone else.

[Sundance31us]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

I did not know the whiskey counted as a "primer." I take it getting Tennyson for Ashley works the same way? Have the triggers been documented for all romances? The VS seems more complicated than anyone else. Garrus, Tali and (to my recollection - she didn't remember the break up in LotSB for Garrus) Liara pretty much ask you off the bat, but the VS confirmation is almost at the tail end of your interaction with them.

Right, the Tennyson is a primer for Ashley...I do not know what happens if you purchase one of the other gifts for her though.

The locks are documented on the Wiki...

Romance Mechanics
http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Romance

This page has some information:

IGN - Romance - List of Romanceable Characters
http://www.ign.com/w...ffect-3/Romance

I think the VS romance tends to be more complicated because of what can happen during Priority: The Citadel II mission.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Shepard is bi. Deal with it. That's the way Shepard is written. It's the end of the world, and no one cares about that stuff anymore.

[Excella Gionne]

Shep is technically bisexual anyways, since he/she can date both genders if he/she wishes to.

[Han Shot First]

You should've Virmired Kaiden.

That scene works a lot better with Ashley.

johnnythao89 wrote...

Shep is technically bisexual anyways, since he/she can date both genders if he/she wishes to.

Ummm....no.

Everyone on the planet can date both genders if they wish to. Most people choose not to. Shepard is only bisexual if the player has Shepard flirt with both sexes.

The character's sexuality is entirely determined by the player. Shepard can also be heterosexual or homosexual, and it depends on the choices made by the player. Shepard having an interest in Kaiden for example is only canon if the player has Shepard go that route. Its non-canon in all other playthroughs.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 26 janvier 2014 - 07:55 .

[Excella Gionne]

Han Shot First wrote...

You should've Virmired Kaiden.

That scene works a lot better with Ashley.

johnnythao89 wrote...

Shep is technically bisexual anyways, since he/she can date both genders if he/she wishes to.

Ummm....no.

Everyone on the planet can date both genders if they wish to. Most people choose not to. Shepard is only bisexual if the player has Shepard flirt with both sexes.

The character's sexuality is entirely determined by the player. Shepard can also be heterosexual or homosexual, and it depends on the choices made by the player. Shepard having an interest in Kaiden for example is only canon if the player has Shepard go that route. Its non-canon in all other playthroughs.

It actually doesn't really matter. He/She is bi either way, because of the many outcomes that can lead to it. Of course, you can go through the game and not flirt with the other sex. But I think these words such as "homosexality", "heterosexual", and "Bisexual", are just barriers to simply saying "like". 

[AlanC9]

johnnythao89 wrote...

Shep is technically bisexual anyways, since he/she can date both genders if he/she wishes to.

Isn't this like saying that Shepard is tehnically both male and female, since a player can play either?

[Excella Gionne]

AlanC9 wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

Shep is technically bisexual anyways, since he/she can date both genders if he/she wishes to.

Isn't this like saying that Shepard is tehnically both male and female, since a player can play either?

It's confusing..... 

[spirosz]

TheGarden2010 wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Will I have more of these ambiguously romantic cut scenes with Kaidan to cringe at?

if you're a homophobe then why did you save Kaidan in the first place?

I'm just going to leave this here

[Han Shot First]

johnnythao89 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

You should've Virmired Kaiden.

That scene works a lot better with Ashley.

johnnythao89 wrote...

Shep is technically bisexual anyways, since he/she can date both genders if he/she wishes to.

Ummm....no.

Everyone on the planet can date both genders if they wish to. Most people choose not to. Shepard is only bisexual if the player has Shepard flirt with both sexes.

The character's sexuality is entirely determined by the player. Shepard can also be heterosexual or homosexual, and it depends on the choices made by the player. Shepard having an interest in Kaiden for example is only canon if the player has Shepard go that route. Its non-canon in all other playthroughs.

It actually doesn't really matter. He/She is bi either way, because of the many outcomes that can lead to it. Of course, you can go through the game and not flirt with the other sex. But I think these words such as "homosexality", "heterosexual", and "Bisexual", are just barriers to simply saying "like". 

Shepard is only bisexual if the player plays the character as such. In other playthroughs the character is either heterosexual, homosexual, or even asexual, depending on the player's choices. Your personal canon might be bisexual, but that doesn't mean the same is true in every other player's game.

Beyond just Shepard's potential love interests there are lots of choices the player is presented with in game that define the character's personality. For example you can roleplay a Shepard who is very much human-centric or alternatively one who is more in favor of cooperation with the alien factions. What you're doing is the equivalent of saying Shepard is a human supremacist in all playthroughs, simply because that is one option available to the player, regardless of whether that player actually chose that route.

In short, in any area where the player is presented with multiple options that define Shepard's personality the canon options are only the ones chosen by that particular player. All other options are immediately rendered non-canon when they aren't chosen in that playthrough. That includes, but isn't limited to, Shepard's romantic interests.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 26 janvier 2014 - 10:49 .

[SwobyJ]

^^^ What Han said.

There is the 'base story' that Bioware starts with (they admit this; and it is likely something more like a male Soldier that romances Liara through all three games, or maybe Ashley then Miranda then Ashley haha).

But once we make our choices, that becomes canon to our story.

So you can be heterosexual, homosexual (will have to wait a while for that if mShep though), bisexual, or more pansexual/xenophilic. Or really, even just 'Kaidan-sexual'.

The decision wheel is not just branches of one Shepard's tastes. They're branches of more universal possibility. A Shepard that doesn't kiss Cortez, may NEVER be a Shepard that would EVER kiss Cortez. But maybe other Shepards would. But probably not this one.

Shepard is written to have some degree of care for a lot of characters, regardless of our imput (and vice versa, especially for characters like Liara). However, it doesn't need to go beyond that.

Like, Liara clearly has attraction towards Shepard. Like, that's canon. It's explained in ME1 (even on a non-romance path), fairly clear in ME2 (even without LOTSB), and outright evident in ME3.
What is also canon for all is Shepard having some care for Liara. They always had their (even limited) ME1 journey together, so there's that. Even as a human-centric Shepard, we are not allowed to be outright xenophobic except maybe in the first parts of ME1. So Liara is Shepard's friend, to some extent, always.
And it doesn't need to be any more than that. Liara can fish in slight ways for attention, and Shepard can feel a form of 'love' (not romantic or sexual even) for her, but that can be it.

That's what we're dealing with in Mass Effect. Spectrums of possibility based on situation and mental state - not total choices for Shepard himself. When we save Ashley on Virmire, that's not Shepard going "Oh! I have to pick one! Maybe this one! Or... this one!"
No. It's Shepard going "I'm saving you Ashley." and depending on the pace of the scene, not really giving much of a second thought about saving Kaidan. Same with the romantic stuff. Shepard is not automatically 'bi'.

The decision wheel is largely a meta device that directs the story. Over time, it can be seen as akin to a whisper in Shepard's ear/mind, but in itself through most of the trilogy, it is us nudging the story in a certain way, not dictating what exactly Shepard will say or choose to do. That's what makes it different than games like Dragon Age: Origins, and it is what SWTOR failed at (and kind of DA2, in some ways).

Modifié par SwobyJ, 26 janvier 2014 - 10:19 .

[Iakus]

jtav wrote...

Romanced FShep doesn't cradle Kaidan. AFAIK, that's only an Ash thing.

Seriously?  That made a set of animations specifically for maleShep/Ash romance?

I thought that was for AnyShep/romanced VS 

[jtav]

Seriously. Or at least I've never seen it. For all that Ash's content isn't very good in 3, I've always had the feeling Ash was the "intended" ME1 LI. And maybe in 3 too, considering her love scene provides the title for the romance theme.

[SwobyJ]

Ashley/MaleShep is the 'intended' (all IMO) ME1 romance.

Miranda/MaleShep for ME2.

Ashley/MaleShep for ME3.

Liara for trilogy, in the end.

What I mean by that, is that the 'new player experience' is something they're not gonna put an alien on for you, but instead a human, but for people already invested and knowing about the aliens, Liara is put forward.

For the record, I've never romanced Ashley, and only romanced Liara so far in ME3 DefaultNewShep run that I'm doing for curiosity. I'm just going by developer/story/advertising/mechanical emphasis.


And by 'intended', I only mean that this is the one a developer, for example, could point to as the main example romance when showcasing the game. Like, Ashley to a new player in general, and Liara to show how story develops over the trilogy. Anything else is 'alternative', though it *somewhat* levels out with Citadel DLC put into the mix.

And until we get a Mass Effect with an outright equal or more emphasis on a female protagonist than a male (I've only seen this happen in KOTOR II in more recent years and that wasn't even Bioware), I'll always consider Fem[Protagonist] romances to be more 'secondary' (enough though I actually like Kaidan and romanced him, and consider Thane one of my favorite romances in the series).

Modifié par SwobyJ, 27 janvier 2014 - 01:11 .

[SwobyJ]

Oh and to me, the order goes (keeping all games into account, and players starting at different points):

-Liara (ME1, kinda ME2, LOTSB, ME3, Citadel)
-Ashley (ME1, kinda ME2, ME3, Citadel)
-Kaidan (ME1, kinda ME2, ME3, Citadel)
-Tali (kinda ME1, ME2, ME3, Citadel)
-Garrus (kinda ME1, ME2, ME3, Citadel)
-Miranda (ME2, kinda ME3, Citadel)
-Jack (ME2, kinda ME3, Citadel)
-Thane (ME2, kinda ME3, Citade...lol)
-Jacob (ME2, kinda ME3, Citade...lol)
-Steve (ME3, Citadel)
-Samantha (ME3, Citadel)
-'Kelly' (ME2, ME3)

-'Samara' (Citadel)
-'James' (Citadel)
-'Javik' (Citadel)
-'Morinth' (kinda ME2)
-etc NPCs (like the lady in Novaria?)

EDIT: Forgot to mention Kelly. Added.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 27 janvier 2014 - 08:02 .