99 réponses à ce sujet

[BronzTrooper]

At first, I thought that it was just arrogance, making humans seem like the main target of the Reapers because humans have to be special (i.e.: Mordin saying that humans are more genetically diverse than the other modern races and humans being the most versatile race, militarily). But, the more I thought about, the more I realized it made sense. Shepard is the single greatest threat to the Reapers, not because s/he has a massive military or knows every weakness the Reapers possess, but because s/he is the only person who can unite the entire galaxy against the Reapers and, possibly, lead the galaxy to victory.

Harby wanted to remove Shepard as a threat ASAP, so Earth was the second stop after the batarians were taken care of. But, look how well that worked out: Shepard was able to escape and was reinstated into the Alliance, allowing him/her to use Alliance resources freely. Sure the Alliance navy was crippled, but they missed their target. Just like the Japanese at Pearl Harbor: while they crippled the US Pacific navy, they missed their target, the American aircraft carriers, completely. Hence, why the third wave was never launched.

If the Reapers hadn't bum-rushed Earth, maybe tried something more subtle, they could have taken Shepard out, leaving the galaxy ripe for the taking. But, bum-rush they did, and through either skill or dumb luck (I'm leaning towards dumb luck), Shepard escaped on the Normandy.

[Artifex_Imperius]

wow dead horse lets beat it up! there are alot of reasons why attack earth first. 1.easiest to attack 2.population less armed 3.shepard's home planet 4.closest to batarians

[AlexMBrennan]

Shepard is the single greatest threat to the Reapers, not because s/he has a massive military or knows every weakness the Reapers possess, but because s/he is the only person who can unite the entire galaxy against the Reapers

Not true - Shepard can convince everyone to work together even if he doesn't know any of them (Garrus killed, Mordin killed, Tali killed, Wrex killed, etc) which suggests that it's not a quality exclusive to Shepard.

Harby wanted to remove Shepard as a threat ASAP, so Earth was the second stop after the batarians were taken care of.

If that was the case then they would have attacked Earth first; however, in that case there wouldn't be any humanoid reaper cannon fodder for our hero to shoot so the reapers politely accommodated this.

there are alot of reasons why attack earth first

1) source? Also, who does that - one of our enemies has nuclear missiles, so let's ignore them and beat up the other nation that Is still using muskets!
2) source? Also, who cares because civilian small arms aren't gonna scratch the paint on a reaper
3) outright false
4) huh, that might actually be true

[AlanC9]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Not true - Shepard can convince everyone to work together even if he doesn't know any of them (Garrus killed, Mordin killed, Tali killed, Wrex killed, etc) which suggests that it's not a quality exclusive to Shepard.

Unless Shepard is just magic.

[Mr.House]

Reapers didn't attack Earth first............

[ImaginaryMatter]

Earth was probably the focus of the game because our little blue ball is probably the most relatable planet for new players and ME3 was marketed towards new players.

[TheMyron]

Humans can't be "super special" to the Reapers since we humans get turned into the weakest of their puppet units.

[ImaginaryMatter]

TheMyron wrote...

Humans can't be "super special" to the Reapers since we humans get turned into the weakest of their puppet units.

I find it a little insulting actually.

Oh well, I guess we should be thankful that at least we're worthy enough to become husks.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 27 janvier 2014 - 10:00 .

[Fixers0]

Are there still people who take the crucible seriously?

[RangerSG]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Shepard is the single greatest threat to the Reapers, not because s/he has a massive military or knows every weakness the Reapers possess, but because s/he is the only person who can unite the entire galaxy against the Reapers

Not true - Shepard can convince everyone to work together even if he doesn't know any of them (Garrus killed, Mordin killed, Tali killed, Wrex killed, etc) which suggests that it's not a quality exclusive to Shepard.

Harby wanted to remove Shepard as a threat ASAP, so Earth was the second stop after the batarians were taken care of.

If that was the case then they would have attacked Earth first; however, in that case there wouldn't be any humanoid reaper cannon fodder for our hero to shoot so the reapers politely accommodated this.

there are alot of reasons why attack earth first

1) source? Also, who does that - one of our enemies has nuclear missiles, so let's ignore them and beat up the other nation that Is still using muskets!
2) source? Also, who cares because civilian small arms aren't gonna scratch the paint on a reaper
3) outright false
4) huh, that might actually be true

Actually, the proximity of the Sol system to Batarian Space alone makes it a likely target after entry through Batarian space. That humanity is a Council race, and along with the Turians provides the bulk of the Council Fleet, and yes, Shepard being a human, only adds to the attraction. Especially since 99% of humanity still lives on Earth. And they don't hit Earth 'that' far ahead of the assault on Palavan. Note Palavan also gets a dead-on strike by the Reapers. It seems they wanted to take out both races providing the bulk of fleet support to the Citadel straightaway. It's a logical 'Plan B' given their normal MO (the Citadel Strike) failed in ME1.

There are lots of things that don't make sense to me about the plot. But the Reapers hitting Earth isn't one of them.

[Mangalores]

RangerSG wrote...
... That humanity is a Council race, and along with the Turians provides the bulk of the Council Fleet, and yes, ...

They still have the smallest dreadnaught fleet of all three council races and in terms of capabilities it appears the Asari have more bang for the buck than the Turians. Supposedly the Asari are more cruiser/ light ship heavy as well which would mean more capable small frigates per dreadnaught ship. The Salarians apparently opt for quality over quantity so may only be numerically inferior to the Turians as well.

Given the Destiny Ascension is being mentioned as many times heavier than most dreadnaughts that might also indicate heavier dreadnaughts within the Asari battlefleet than the ships Turians class as much. Maybe that's even the sole reason for Salarians and Asari being willing to agree to numerical inferiority in the naval treaty.


It's sad that they never clarify what actually gets destroyed by Sovereign. It doesn't appear to be anyone's main fleet, there is even mentioning of the Council sending fleets towards Geth territory (after Virmire?) so those wouldn't be there either and in ME2+ME3 the Council races are essentialy mentioned as being pre Citadel battle or beyond.

Admitedly I rarely play the Council dead option but I also find it unclear what a dead Council got to do with the military budgets of the Council races. It's not like the Citadel is a hub for military infrastructure for anyone. In ME2 it apparently results in the Turians ignoring the naval treaties => building more than they are allowed which also implies they are not just replacing losses but expanding their prior strength.


I'd say the main reason is proximity to Batarian space and the Reapers waste the human main fleets inside a couple of hours and drive them from Earth so they can still bumrush the Turians. It's only there they get slightly stuck with the Salarians getting off easy and the Asari being ready to prepare somewhat.

Given you find them spread all over the Galaxy you'd expect them to hit all main races at once if that were physical possible. If they have to funnel through Batarian, the human, then Turian space to get elsewhere that appears a limitation of the relay network.

Modifié par Mangalores, 27 janvier 2014 - 01:30 .

[Daemul]

TheMyron wrote...

Humans can't be "super special" to the Reapers since we humans get turned into the weakest of their puppet units.

Scions and Praetorains yo.

[dreamgazer]

Fixers0 wrote...

Are there still people who take the crucible seriously?

Sure. Just as seriously as the Conduit and the Prothean cipher, at least.

[Fixers0]

dreamgazer wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Are there still people who take the crucible seriously?

Sure.

Please explain how,

[Ultim Asari]

Fixers0 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Are there still people who take the crucible seriously?

Sure.

Please explain how,

People assumed their Shep and the galaxy could have an ending that doesn't screw them. Just because they don't like what happened doesn't mean it didn't happen. In that case Obama isn't the president of the U.S.

[dreamgazer]

Fixers0 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Are there still people who take the crucible seriously?

Sure.

Please explain how,

Reapers strong. Protheans smart. Galaxy not prepared. Shepard trust revered Protheans (not a first). This cycle different. As I said, the logic behind it can be taken about as seriously as the first game's ambiguous MacGuffin, Tali's recording, and the magical Prothean brain fix from a telepathic plant.

[Mangalores]

dreamgazer wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Are there still people who take the crucible seriously?

Sure. Just as seriously as the Conduit and the Prothean cipher, at least.

Thing is, you do not need to take them seriously since they are just plot devices keeping the plot moving to hunt down Saren.

[dreamgazer]

Mangalores wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Are there still people who take the crucible seriously?

Sure. Just as seriously as the Conduit and the Prothean cipher, at least.

Thing is, you do not need to take them seriously since they are just plot devices keeping the plot moving to hunt down Saren.

Then you don't need to take the plans and assebly of the Crucible all that seriously, since it's just a plot device keeping the plot moving to defeat the near-invincible Reapers.   If you can go with the magical brain-touching and the utter lack of knowledge about the MacConduit in ME1, up to its nonsensical function and reveal from a Prothean digital intelligence, then rolling with the Crucible's plan-discovery and construction shouldn't be that big of an issue.  

[Fixers0]

dreamgazer wrote...
Reapers strong. Protheans smart. Galaxy not prepared. Shepard trust revered Protheans (not a first). This cycle different. As I said, the logic behind it can be taken about as seriously as the first game's ambiguous MacGuffin, Tali's recording, and the magical Prothean brain fix from a telepathic plant.

Point being? Because if this is an attempt to somehow convince me that the crucible can be taken seriously i'm afraind not working very well.

[dreamgazer]

Fixers0 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
Reapers strong. Protheans smart. Galaxy not prepared. Shepard trust revered Protheans (not a first). This cycle different. As I said, the logic behind it can be taken about as seriously as the first game's ambiguous MacGuffin, Tali's recording, and the magical Prothean brain fix from a telepathic plant.

Point being? Because if this is an attempt to somehow convince me that the crucible can be taken seriously i'm afraind not working very well.

Point's pretty clear, and it still stands: if you can take certain things seriously in the first game of the series, then you should be able to take a desperate and underpowered galaxy throwing their weight behind plans for a Prothean device seriously. 

[Mangalores]

dreamgazer wrote...
...

Then you don't need to take the plans and assebly of the Crucible all that seriously, since it's just a plot device keeping the plot moving to defeat the near-invincible Reapers.   If you can go with the magical brain-touching and the utter lack of knowledge about the MacConduit in ME1, up to its nonsensical function and reveal from a Prothean digital intelligence, then rolling with the Crucible's plan-discovery and construction shouldn't be that big of an issue.  

There is an actual difference. The two things you mentioned are non critical to the plot. You can replace them with a plethora of other ways to convey the backstory they add. They serve that purpose and that's it. The plot is about hunting Saren and why he does the things he does.

The Crucible is the integral plot device necessary for plot resolution. Apart the fact you actually do not do anything about the Crucible until it's finished. It pops up in mission 1, then you go travel the galaxy and you return when it is conveniently finished when you realize a part is missing.

The significance and length of time you have to put up with these plot devices is very different.

- Beacon = Revelation Saren is doing something dangerous, Shepard is the hero!
- Conduit = Backdoor to the Citadel "It's a trap!"
- Crucible = hell if I know... thingie that kills Reapers if Reapers allow you to kill Reapers?!?

For two of the three you have simple reasons what they are doing and they just solve simple issues to move the story along. The third is integral to explaining what the hell is going on!

Modifié par Mangalores, 27 janvier 2014 - 04:26 .

[dreamgazer]

Mangalores wrote...

There is an actual difference. The two things you mentioned are non critical to the plot. You can replace them with a plethora of other ways to convey the backstory they add. They serve that purpose and that's it. The plot is about hunting Saren and why he does the things he does.

The Crucible is the integral plot device necessary for plot resolution. Apart the fact you actually do not do anything about the Crucible until it's finished. It pops up in mission 1, then you go travel the galaxy and you return when it is conveniently finished when you realize a part is missing.

The significance and length of time you have to put up with these plot devices is very different.

- Beacon = Revelation Saren is doing something dangerous, Shepard is the hero!
- Conduit = Backdoor to the Citadel "It's a trap!"
- Crucible = hell if I know... thingie that kills Reapers if Reapers allow you to kill Reapers?!?

For two of the three you have simple reasons what they are doing and they just solve simple issues. The third is integral to explaining what the hell is going on!

Hate to break it to you, but the magical Prothean cipher (not the beacon) is pretty damn integral to the plot, as is the Conduit's convenient and nonsensical functionality.  Seems pretty unfair to hand-wave those and overlook the Crucible, and how two of its functions are emphasized across the entirety of ME3 (and foreshadowed/established in the previous games).  You lose me at Synthesis, of course. 

[Fixers0]

dreamgazer wrote...
Point's pretty clear, and it still stands: if you can take certain things seriously in the first game of the series, then you should be able to take a desperate and underpowered galaxy throwing their weight behind plans for a Prothean device seriously. 

Should I?

Please, explain why.

[Mangalores]

dreamgazer wrote...
...

Hate to break it to you, but the magical Prothean cipher (not the beacon) is pretty damn integral to the plot, as is the Conduit's convenient and nonsensical functionality.  Seems pretty unfair to hand-wave those and overlook the Crucible, and how two of its functions are emphasized across the entirety of ME3 (and foreshadowed/established in the previous games).  You lose me at Synthesis, of course. 

No, they are not. They could be anything. Their functionality is the least relevant about them. It would help if you provide a reason for your assertion.

What is integral about the Beacon? It's there.
What is integral about the Conduit? It's there and moves you from A to B (which is only relevant for pacing).

They are just short term motivations with no relevance to the final act.

What is integral about the Crucible? It solves the entire Reaper threat because we shouldn't be able to! It is the final act!

What was foreshadowed about the Crucible in previous games?

Modifié par Mangalores, 27 janvier 2014 - 04:48 .