99 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

Mangalores wrote...

No, they are not. They could be anything. Their functionality is the least relevant about them.

What is integral about the Beacon? It's there.
What is integral about the Conduit? It's there and moves you from A to B.
What is integral about the Crucible? It solves the entire Reaper threat because we shouldn't be able to!

Again, you're talking about the beacon, not the CIPHER. Those are two different things. 

And the Conduit conveniently solves the solution to getting directly to the Citadel in time because we shouldn't be able to!  

What was foreshadowed about the Crucible in previous games?

Isolated damage to synthetics, digital uploading of consciousness, and manipulation of dark energy.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 27 janvier 2014 - 04:51 .

[Mangalores]

dreamgazer wrote...

Mangalores wrote...

No, they are not. They could be anything. Their functionality is the least relevant about them.

What is integral about the Beacon? It's there.
What is integral about the Conduit? It's there and moves you from A to B.
What is integral about the Crucible? It solves the entire Reaper threat because we shouldn't be able to!

Again, you're talking about the beacon, not the CIPHER. Those are two different things. 

But it actually changes nothing. Those are all just mysterious stuff happening to move along.

And the Conduit conveniently solves the solution to getting directly to the Citadel in time because we shouldn't be able to!  

You do understand the difference in magnitude and what the Conduit does is merely to maintain the pacing as the plot goes into its climax? If the Conduit didn't move you instantly from A to B we'd just use normal means to get from A to B and Shepard would be still hot on Saren's heels.

Saren's and Sovereign are the story, not the Conduit, it is just a means to the story. Saren is Shepard's goal thoughout ME1's story. The Conduit, Cipher whatever are all means to that end. In ME3 the Crucible is Shepard's goal. The Crucible (+ the Catalyst reveal) is the literal end of the story.

What was foreshadowed about the Crucible in previous games?

Isolated damage to synthetics, digital uploading of consciousness, and manipulation of dark energy.

Foreshadowing would be that an unknown intelligence steers the events, not the Mass Effect everyday technology.

Modifié par Mangalores, 27 janvier 2014 - 05:32 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

dreamgazer wrote...

Hate to break it to you, but the magical Prothean cipher (not the beacon) is pretty damn integral to the plot, as is the Conduit's convenient and nonsensical functionality.

How is the Conduit convenient and nonsensical?

[dreamgazer]

[quote][quote]Mangalores wrote...

Again, you're talking about the beacon, not the CIPHER. Those are two different things. [/quote]


But it actually changes nothing. Those are all just mysterious stuff happening to move along.[/quote]

That's an incredibly bold hand-wave there, to dismiss the magical, unforeshadowed, necessary rearrangement of the protagonist's psyche that gives them the perspective they require to locate the story's big quasi-MacGuffin as "mysterious stuff". 

[quote][quote]
And the Conduit conveniently solves the solution to getting directly to the Citadel in time because we shouldn't be able to!  
[/quote]

You do understand the difference in magnitude and what the Conduit does is merely to maintain the pacing as the plot goes into its climax? If the Conduit didn't move you instantly from A to B we'd just use normal means to get from A to B and Shepard would be still hot on Saren's heels.[/quote]

Again, you're hand-waving the ultimate significance of the Conduit.  Without it, Saren's plan is completely SOL (and so are the Reapers, in a roundabout way).  

[quote]Saren's and Sovereign are the story, not the Conduit, it is just a means to the story. Saren is Shepard's goal thoughout ME1's story. The Conduit, Cipher whatever are all means to that end. In ME3 the Crucible is Shepard's goal. The Crucible (+ the Catalyst reveal) is the literal end of the story.[/quote]

Heavily, heavily arguable that the Conduit isn't a primary fixture of the story.  Pay attention to how often it's referenced and how big it impacts the plot, from Tali's message to the last-second run.


[quote][quote][quote]What was foreshadowed about the Crucible in previous games?[/quote]
Isolated damage to synthetics, digital uploading of consciousness, and manipulation of dark energy.
[/quote]
Foreshadowing would be that an unknown intelligence steers the events, not the Mass Effect everyday technology.
[/quote][/quote]

Why wouldn't there be a central intelligence at the center of their navigation?  Each being an independent nation doesn't mean they don't get up-high directives.


[quote]ImaginaryMatter wrote...

[quote]dreamgazer wrote...

Hate to break it to you, but the magical Prothean cipher (not the beacon) is pretty damn integral to the plot, as is the Conduit's convenient and nonsensical functionality.
[/quote]

How is the Conduit convenient and nonsensical?
[/quote]

Relays aren't teleportation devices, the Mako shouldn't have landed the way it did, and just at that moment did it start counting down to its deactivation.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 27 janvier 2014 - 06:16 .

[AlanC9]

I could never quite figure out why the Protheans installed a secret device in the middle if the Presidium Commons. Were they passing it off as a "monument" too?

[ImaginaryMatter]

AlanC9 wrote...

I could never quite figure out why the Protheans installed a secret device in the middle if the Presidium Commons. Were they passing it off as a "monument" too?

Maybe the scientists moved it from some secret storage facility to out in the open, at least that's how I imagined it going down.

[AlanC9]

How come they didn't carve some sort of a pictogram next to it while they were at it?

[ImaginaryMatter]

dreamgazer wrote...

Relays aren't teleportation devices, the Mako shouldn't have landed the way it did, and just at that moment did it start counting down to its deactivation.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, the Mako looks like it accelerates into and out of the Relay like everything else. Also, I think the countdown is pretty forgivable since it's their to add the pizzazz of racing against the clock. If it wasn't there the story would proceed the same way only the scene wouldn't be as fun.

[Sovereign330]

Dubozz wrote...

DesioPL wrote...

I got stupid thing in mind anyway...

Why Reapers hit Earth with main fleet?

Because Mac Walters flawless writing. Also Earth is the center of the universe.

Because humanity is perceived as the biggest threat since they have been the most successful in opposing the reapers.

[AlanC9]

dreamgazer wrote...

Relays aren't teleportation devices, the Mako shouldn't have landed the way it did, and just at that moment did it start counting down to its deactivation.

Well, there is an argument that if relays didn't "phase" their payload through solid matter, then ships would blow up from hitting gas molecules in the relay corridors.

I don't buy it myself --- two massless objects colliding wouldn't do a damn thing to each other if they collided -- but non-idiots have believed this.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlanC9 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Not true - Shepard can convince everyone to work together even if he doesn't know any of them (Garrus killed, Mordin killed, Tali killed, Wrex killed, etc) which suggests that it's not a quality exclusive to Shepard.

Unless Shepard is just magic.

What do you know, Shepard is magic.

[TheMyron]

Daemul wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

Humans can't be "super special" to the Reapers since we humans get turned into the weakest of their puppet units.

Scions and Praetorains yo.

Yeah, but they have to mash up large bunch of them together...

But it only take one Asari to make a Banshee...

Modifié par TheMyron, 27 janvier 2014 - 10:39 .

[AlanC9]

StreetMagic wrote...

If I think too much about colliding "massless objects", the only thing will happen is my head will explode.

I've had practice. The idea of a massless drive goes back at least to "Doc" Smith's Lensman series back in the 1930's. IIRC when one of his ships went "free" things would be a bit wacky inside. For instance, without inertia you can't throw an object, since it stops moving the moment it leaves your hand. Ships in inertialess flight were very resistant to damage, since most weapons would push them aside rather than blow them out of space.

Frederik Pohl used a mass-cancellation drive in the Heechee saga -- which is basically Mass Effect if it had been written by a pacifist -- but within the ships everything appeared normal, which is why humans can't figure out how the ships work untill the second book.

Modifié par AlanC9, 27 janvier 2014 - 10:42 .

[AlanC9]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What do you know, Shepard is magic.

That's the most disturbing thing I've seen here all month.

[dreamgazer]

TheMyron wrote...

But it only take one Asari to make a Banshee...

One very rare Ardat-Yakshi, actually.

[Dean_the_Young]

dreamgazer wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

But it only take one Asari to make a Banshee...

One very rare Ardat-Yakshi, actually.

Not so rare, really. All that may be required is an Asari with the AY-gene, not necessarily an AY in particular.

Pure AY are the real goods, of course, but the codex greatly expands the prevalence of AY gene holders.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlanC9 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What do you know, Shepard is magic.

That's the most disturbing thing I've seen here all month.

You're welcome. And since I'm feeling suitably sarcastic today, may I suggest you look up 'Mass Effect is Magic' on DeviantArt?

I've no clue what you'll find, but knowing the internet...

[dreamgazer]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

But it only take one Asari to make a Banshee...

One very rare Ardat-Yakshi, actually.

Not so rare, really. All that may be required is an Asari with the AY-gene, not necessarily an AY in particular.

Pure AY are the real goods, of course, but the codex greatly expands the prevalence of AY gene holders.

Guess it depends on your definition of rare. I consider one asari out of a hundred to be pretty rare, assuming every one of them can be transformed. "Very" might have been an exaggeration. 

[RangerSG]

Mangalores wrote...

RangerSG wrote...
... That humanity is a Council race, and along with the Turians provides the bulk of the Council Fleet, and yes, ...

They still have the smallest dreadnaught fleet of all three council races and in terms of capabilities it appears the Asari have more bang for the buck than the Turians. Supposedly the Asari are more cruiser/ light ship heavy as well which would mean more capable small frigates per dreadnaught ship. The Salarians apparently opt for quality over quantity so may only be numerically inferior to the Turians as well.

Given the Destiny Ascension is being mentioned as many times heavier than most dreadnaughts that might also indicate heavier dreadnaughts within the Asari battlefleet than the ships Turians class as much. Maybe that's even the sole reason for Salarians and Asari being willing to agree to numerical inferiority in the naval treaty.


It's sad that they never clarify what actually gets destroyed by Sovereign. It doesn't appear to be anyone's main fleet, there is even mentioning of the Council sending fleets towards Geth territory (after Virmire?) so those wouldn't be there either and in ME2+ME3 the Council races are essentialy mentioned as being pre Citadel battle or beyond.

Admitedly I rarely play the Council dead option but I also find it unclear what a dead Council got to do with the military budgets of the Council races. It's not like the Citadel is a hub for military infrastructure for anyone. In ME2 it apparently results in the Turians ignoring the naval treaties => building more than they are allowed which also implies they are not just replacing losses but expanding their prior strength.


I'd say the main reason is proximity to Batarian space and the Reapers waste the human main fleets inside a couple of hours and drive them from Earth so they can still bumrush the Turians. It's only there they get slightly stuck with the Salarians getting off easy and the Asari being ready to prepare somewhat.

Given you find them spread all over the Galaxy you'd expect them to hit all main races at once if that were physical possible. If they have to funnel through Batarian, the human, then Turian space to get elsewhere that appears a limitation of the relay network.

Well, most relays, according to lore, only switch to specific places. So there are limitations. And given Arrival blows up the Alpha Relay, which was chosen for its ability to provide galactic transit (perhaps the only one in the human/batarian sector to be able to, unless Arcterus can). So the Reapers were forced into literally months of FTL travel until they reached the Batarian home system, and could then jump through the network. So yes, they were limited/funneled until they reached another prime relay. 

Charon works the same way. It only links to Arcterus. It wasn't until humanity reached that they had freedom to access the network, as such (and discover that they had violated Council Law by reactivating a dormant mass relay, hence the First Contact War). 

So yes, the Reapers designed the relay network so that it would constrain travel. As I see it, that was no concern for them, because once a race discovered a mass relay, it would develop along the Reapers chosen lines. And they, unlike organics, suffered no detriment from months/years of FTL travel inside the galaxy to otherwise isolated systems. Add to that, given their usual plan, they would flood the network from the Citadel, and those outliers were a non-concern. 

[RangerSG]

StreetMagic wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

But it only take one Asari to make a Banshee...

One very rare Ardat-Yakshi, actually.

Not so rare, really. All that may be required is an Asari with the AY-gene, not necessarily an AY in particular.

Pure AY are the real goods, of course, but the codex greatly expands the prevalence of AY gene holders.

Guess it depends on your definition of rare. I consider one asari out of a hundred to be pretty rare, assuming every one of them can be transformed. "Very" might have been an exaggeration. 

One out of a 100 would be pretty catatrophic, I think.

At least my book. Even one "nice" Aradat Yakshi (Falere) is bad enough.

IIRC, the lore says banshees can even be created from dormant AY. I assume that means the Reapers can access a recessive gene. So even if the base population of AY is as rare as Samara hints in ME2, the pool of potential banshees would still be considerably larger. 

[TheMyron]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

But it only take one Asari to make a Banshee...

One very rare Ardat-Yakshi, actually.

Not so rare, really. All that may be required is an Asari with the AY-gene, not necessarily an AY in particular.

Pure AY are the real goods, of course, but the codex greatly expands the prevalence of AY gene holders.

So, in a twisted kind of way, the Reapers have done the Asari race a favor, no?

[dreamgazer]

Yeah, it depends on the viability of the genes, I suppose, and how precise 1% really is in determining a pool.

Still, it seems like any old human can be turned to husks and repurposed into Praetorians and what-not.