137 réponses à ce sujet

[Deebo305]

Oh so many bad puns in this thread

[Gwinever]

Han Shot First wrote...

Animations and additional work probably the biggest reason.

I'd love for spears and other polearms implemented in the game however. Polearms have actually been far more common on the battlefield throughout most of human history than swords. And they can be no less epic than swords:

Hector vs. Achilles

300

You do realise that in both of your examples they also use swords right?
In fact, the sword is the most used weapon in history, wether as a main weapon or as a side arm it allway's saw action in the field in the end.

[Peer of the Empire]

Spears are for peasants

In the days of the hoplites sword manufacture was not very advanced

I'll take a lance on horseback

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 27 janvier 2014 - 01:33 .

[addiction21]

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Spears are for peasants

In the days of the hoplites sword manufacture was not very advanced

I'll take a lance on horseback

Well in the days of hoplites you didn't have hoplites on horseback. At least not in the area Hoplites were used.

Might as well say you would take a AK-57 with unlimited ammunition.

[Wothen]

Han Shot First wrote...

Animations and additional work probably the biggest reason.

I'd love for spears and other polearms implemented in the game however. Polearms have actually been far more common on the battlefield throughout most of human history than swords. And they can be no less epic than swords:

Hector vs. Achilles

300

Spears (I include in this category pikes, lances, sarissas etc..) is by far the most used weapon in human history (in terms of recurring usage time, they were around since ever), they were easy to make and cheap, anyone could use it (use the pointy end heh)  
Then come swords with higher understanding of metal working
Polearms like poleaxes, halberds, naginatas etc.. were adaptations of spears and came much, much later on history

Modifié par Wothen, 27 janvier 2014 - 01:51 .

[philippe willaume]

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Spears are for peasants

In the days of the hoplites sword manufacture was not very advanced

I'll take a lance on horseback

Well spear was still part of the 1400 german judicial dual,
in the Ringeck manual 1430-50 you are taught to use spear.
really almost all the version of a noble axe have  spear/spique head.

at the same periode, spears were still used for hunt (boar spear)
During the shield wall area spear were really common for 100150 tears after Hastings (1066),

Spear does not work well against plate or transitional armour but it die worlk agains mail even sandwitch between two layers of padding
phil

[Han Shot First]

Gwinever wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Animations and additional work probably the biggest reason.

I'd love for spears and other polearms implemented in the game however. Polearms have actually been far more common on the battlefield throughout most of human history than swords. And they can be no less epic than swords:

Hector vs. Achilles

300

You do realise that in both of your examples they also use swords right?
In fact, the sword is the most used weapon in history, wether as a main weapon or as a side arm it allway's saw action in the field in the end.

And in both examples the sword was a secondary weapon, not the primary.

In any case the bolded bit is incorrect. Swords have been heavily romanticized in fiction, which is part of the reason why they are so ever-present in Hollywood sword-and-sandal flicks. In reality polearms were by far the dominant class of weapon on the battlefield before the age of gunpowder. And its not even close. Swords are a very distant second at best. Polearms were much more common place, because they were much easier (and cheaper) to produce in large numbers.

As an example of the disconnect between Hollywood and history, watch any film that depicts the Romans fighting against the Germanic barbarians. The barbarians almost without fail will be near entirely armed with swords, though historically, they were mostly armed with spears. Swords would have only been carried by the nobles. The same is also true with Vikings. In Hollywood portrayals of Vikings, they are nearly always armed with swords. Historically the spear was the most common weapon used by the Vikings.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 27 janvier 2014 - 04:00 .

[metatheurgist]

Gwinever wrote...
In fact, the sword is the most used weapon in history, wether as a main weapon or as a side arm it allway's saw action in the field in the end.

I have no hard figures but my gut says the AK47 would be the most used weapon in history.

[General TSAR]

I thought a rock is the most used weapon in history.

[MisanthropePrime]

The DA RPG does have spears as a weapon group, so here's hoping.

[Zanallen]

Qistina wrote...

Dark Souls is made by Japanese, Japan company. Dark Souls have a lot of different types of weapons and different types of weapon attacking animations for each weapons.

Now that's Japanese...

Dark Souls doesn't have companions and has far less in terms of story and plot, voice acting, etc. Budgets aren't unlimited. If you add more to the animation budget, you have to subtract from other departments. Otherwise, you have to increase the budget which means the game has to sell more to compensate.

[Sentinel358]

Qistina wrote...

DRTJR wrote...
too many resources, but with the technologically superior Qunari joining maybe we too can throw pointy sticks

"Too many resources" is an excuse, the real reason is "we are lazy"

I am not direct this to Bioware....

Its not lazy, it asks for too much and wouldnt pay off, adds a new dynamic to the game that would make combat boring, it would be hard to impliment in this type of game

[n7stormrunner]

oh, I know they were all sold to dwarves who gave them to the qunari in hope getting their hands on gaatlok. naturally the qunari refuse.. after taking all the spears

[TKavatar]

It's probably because of the graphical bottleneck caused by the peasantboxes last gen consoles. I believe ME3 had the same issue; they couldn't include holstering animations because of the console's limited memory.

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

Western developers love to make excuses, while Japanese or Asian developers just do it

you don't happen to be asian

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

look at Skyrim, how many years it being developed? Dark Souls maps is far better than Skyrim. There are a lot of varieties in Dark Souls maps, there are secret passages, secret rooms, short cuts, dark areas but having paths in it, upward and downward levels, building full of traps, interconnecting paths, ect ect ect Dark Souls map is so complicated and yet Dark Souls have spears, halberds and varieties of weapons and weapon styles for each weapons...Skyrim have what? All the same animations...

that has nothing to do with my question... 

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

in dark Souls, not only that each weapons have their own attacking animations, but also if you don't meet the requirement for using the weapons and armor you got slow and sluggish animation instead when using them. See how detail the Japanese work is?

One handed weapons can also used two handed and have animations for each. Conversely, two handed weapons can be used by one handed, except bows of course.

Like i mention above...western developers love to make excuses....

still not an answer 

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

Japanese and Asians are dedicated to their works, they have less controversy, less rest they just work work work and they love their work to the perfection, if there is defect it is after they give their best to the fullest, we can accept it as human limit...

But Skyrim, DA and so many western games? We cannot accept the excuse...western peoples love to distract themselves, corrupted, not seeking perfection but love making interests and love to take opportunity in controversies for marketing, depend on it for sales....

am I going to get an answer?

[Kidd]

I think memory is indeed the main issue. You cannot compare a game like Dark Souls to Dragon Age. Whereas Dark Souls has the protagonist's current weapon's in RAM, that's all it needs. When you swap weapons, the game can transition out your old weapon and replace its animations with the new weapon's.

DA also has a party. Bow!Hawke, Merrill, Isabela and Aveline all co-exist in memory because all of their animations run side by side. That's four different types of weapon animations in the machine's memory at once. On top of this you also have enemies. Whereas in Dark Souls you rarely face off against more than one or two types of enemy at once, doing so in DA is standard fare. When facing demons in DA2 you often face groups of abominations, desire demons, rage demons and revenants all at once. That's a lot of animations.

Actually, it's probably more animations than people give credit to. There's far more than just the ordinary standard attacks. Every talent and spell needs to reside in memory at all times. That's a ton of data to fit in the PS3's minimal 256MB system memory (not only used for animations, but also everything else in the game that isn't a graphical texture).

If this is new information to you, I can see noses being wrinkled over the existence of the PSX era Final Fantasy games. After all, those happened two console generations before the PS3. In FF7-9, there's an immense lot of spells and skills available at any time. The main difference in implementation here is that PSX-era FF is turn-based while DA (just like Dark Souls) is real-time. Whereas DA and DS keep all their animations in memory for instant activation, FF didn't need to. The boss would raise it's hand in a casting animation. During this time, the game would phase out much of the game's resources temporarily while the current spell was loading. This is not an option for DA since it does not pause all action when a talent/spell is activated.

Ugh, typing long posts on a phone is a nightmare. Hope I didn't miss anything important. But yeah, PS3 animation memory + 3 followers + tactical encounter design + real-time combat is an unbelievable strain on how many animations can be loaded at once. I think they're doing well as is, all things considered.

[Kidd]

Qistina wrote...

Dark Souls enemy animations is far more complex than DA enemy animations....each enemies have different set of animations, Dark Souls have a lot more enemies than DA. Still no memory problem whatsoever

In Undead Burg you will face zombies, bomb thrower zombies, sword and shield zombies, spear zombies, huge Black Knight zombie, bulky "Knight" with huge hammer, zombie dogs, assassin acrobatic zombies, huge duel wielding swords boss.....that just in Undead Burg, and that only in that section of Undead Burg

So no, that is not an excuse

Yes, so in total there are about as many unique character movesets moving about (though I'm guessing many of them are still loaded in and out of memory as you traverse the world - it'd be a waste of memory that can be used for other things not to do this). Those enemies still don't have 10+ active skills that can be activated at any time like a DA follower. Mind you, there's four of those memory hogs in DA. That's over 40+ skills with their own animations on top of standard animations.

[TKavatar]

Maybe we'll finally get spear throwing in DA4 when last gen is no longer supported. I will be so glad if that happens. 
Stupid lastgen consoles limiting the power of currentgen and PC... <_<

[Maiden Crowe]

n7stormrunner wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Japanese and Asians are dedicated to their works, they have less controversy, less rest they just work work work and they love their work to the perfection, if there is defect it is after they give their best to the fullest, we can accept it as human limit...

But Skyrim, DA and so many western games? We cannot accept the excuse...western peoples love to distract themselves, corrupted, not seeking perfection but love making interests and love to take opportunity in controversies for marketing, depend on it for sales....

am I going to get an answer?

An answer to what?

[superdeathdealer14]

I bet the Qunari just laugh at everyone and say "Stupid humans they'll never figure out how to put two hands on a wooden shaft and whack someone with it"

[Peer of the Empire]

addiction21 wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Spears are for peasants

In the days of the hoplites sword manufacture was not very advanced

I'll take a lance on horseback

Well in the days of hoplites you didn't have hoplites on horseback. At least not in the area Hoplites were used.

Might as well say you would take a AK-57 with unlimited ammunition.

What a nonsensical post

I'm disappointed I participated in this thread

[EmperorSahlertz]

Qistina wrote...

Japanese and Asians are dedicated to their works, they have less controversy, less rest they just work work work and they love their work to the perfection, if there is defect it is after they give their best to the fullest, we can accept it as human limit...

But Skyrim, DA and so many western games? We cannot accept the excuse...western peoples love to distract themselves, corrupted, not seeking perfection but love making interests and love to take opportunity in controversies for marketing, depend on it for sales....

Wow, that is actually incredibly racist.. Nice to see that Qistina has changed from a raving lunatic, to a raving racist lunatic.