Recently I played through Telltale's version of The Walking Dead. I was as immersed as I've ever been with any game while I was playing through that one, though in the past I've spoken out against this particular genre of games--interactive movies. The Walking Dead had many of the things I enjoyed in the Mass Effect, Fallout and Dragon Age games, which is the ability to make choices and shape a character's personality. Much of the gameplay involves Quick Time Events, choosing dialogue and investigation. This isn't the type of gameplay people are used to, as evidenced by what a cousin of mine said while playing through the game. During the first scene, he asked if he could skip through the cutscene, and I explained that the cutscene is a part of the game. When he chose a couple of options he said...
"What, this is it?"
Now, a situation like this could easily be chalked up to a difference of taste. Really, that's what I consider the biggest part to the question that I pose. I've noticed this a lot when it comes to heavily story driven games. Games like Gone Home, The Walking Dead and even games like The Last of Us or a series like Mass Effect have been criticised for being more like movies than video games. I have personally enjoyed games that have a heavy focus on story and personality building. It feels like I am in the story. However, I can completely understand the criticisms thrown at these types of games, as I have been in that camp before too.
The purpose of posing this question isn't to figure out the exact definition of a video game. The purpose of posing this question isn't to give one definition more validity than another definition. The purpose of posing this question is simply my curiosity about how people feel about this manner. I'm a person who likes gaining perspective from others.
With that in mind I want to make the simple request of not bashing another person's opinion in this thread. If you feel like you disagree with someone, then state your opinion in an intelligent way rather than attacking another persons. I feel like this thread can create an interesting environment where we can see other people's opinion on one of the greyest areas of gaming that is gaining more relevance every day.
What defines a game, to you?
Débuté par
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*
, janv. 26 2014 05:43
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#2
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 06:05
Kaiser Arian XVII
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Something you can play with its characters (or red shirts) and objects. It is definitely more than a (text-)book or movie (it can have both aspects).
^ Video game.
Game in general >
Soccer, D&D game book, Fallout 1 and Angry Birds are all games.
^ Video game.
Game in general >
Soccer, D&D game book, Fallout 1 and Angry Birds are all games.
Modifié par Kaiser Arian, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:06 .
#3
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 06:33
Fast Jimmy
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I'd say a game is any form of structured and interactive entertainment. Interactive being a key part, but structured being the most visible of the two.
Monopoly is a game. You interact by making choices, rolling dice, proposing trades, spending (or losing money). GTAV is a game, since you give input into the decisions of how you complete objectives and if they pass or not. Games that focus heavily on dialogue, like TWD series and Bioware games, still are very structured - you have objectives, rules and factors within which you have to abide - they also involve a high level of interaction.
Just like the interaction between Monopoly and TWD is vastly different, so too is the interaction difference between TWD and, say, Modern Warfare. People are used to engaging in combat, or puzzles, or exploration, with the story being "mere fluff" to the tasks they are set out to do. And while there is a fair amount of puzzles (and minor elements of exploration and combat), the prime driver of TWD's interaction and choices are through its dialogue.
So, in that light, interactive movies are very much games in my book. They are not my favorite type of game, to be sure... but they are undeniably an activity that involves interaction and structured rules. It is just a matter if games SHOULD be built on dialogue as a gameplay mechanic alone or not. Just like many of the most excellent games involve multiple systems and gameplay functions, so too is it risky (and perhaps even poor design) to make a game hinge on one dialogue mechanic and nothing else.
I think the characters and story in TWD make it an effective model. And there are SOME other elements of puzzle solving and other items that make it more than just a true QTE/dialogue experience. But I think the broader discussion should be "are these types of a games a good design philosophy?" instead of "is this a game?"
Because I think you can say without a shadow of a doubt, it is one.
Monopoly is a game. You interact by making choices, rolling dice, proposing trades, spending (or losing money). GTAV is a game, since you give input into the decisions of how you complete objectives and if they pass or not. Games that focus heavily on dialogue, like TWD series and Bioware games, still are very structured - you have objectives, rules and factors within which you have to abide - they also involve a high level of interaction.
Just like the interaction between Monopoly and TWD is vastly different, so too is the interaction difference between TWD and, say, Modern Warfare. People are used to engaging in combat, or puzzles, or exploration, with the story being "mere fluff" to the tasks they are set out to do. And while there is a fair amount of puzzles (and minor elements of exploration and combat), the prime driver of TWD's interaction and choices are through its dialogue.
So, in that light, interactive movies are very much games in my book. They are not my favorite type of game, to be sure... but they are undeniably an activity that involves interaction and structured rules. It is just a matter if games SHOULD be built on dialogue as a gameplay mechanic alone or not. Just like many of the most excellent games involve multiple systems and gameplay functions, so too is it risky (and perhaps even poor design) to make a game hinge on one dialogue mechanic and nothing else.
I think the characters and story in TWD make it an effective model. And there are SOME other elements of puzzle solving and other items that make it more than just a true QTE/dialogue experience. But I think the broader discussion should be "are these types of a games a good design philosophy?" instead of "is this a game?"
Because I think you can say without a shadow of a doubt, it is one.
Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:34 .
#4
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 06:55
Fast Jimmy
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^
Also, to be specific, the opening scene was designed to introduce the player to the mechanics of the dialogue system, since it is so critical. And, while using the dialogue system is a big part of the game, so, too, is the puzzle/adventure portion of the game, as well as the choice/consequence aspect. Once the game really begins rolling when you meet Clem and are working to get her down/fight the zombie/etc., the dialogue still runs the show, but there are things "to do" in sense, rather than just sit back and watch the movie play out with an occasional dialogue choice.
Also, to be specific, the opening scene was designed to introduce the player to the mechanics of the dialogue system, since it is so critical. And, while using the dialogue system is a big part of the game, so, too, is the puzzle/adventure portion of the game, as well as the choice/consequence aspect. Once the game really begins rolling when you meet Clem and are working to get her down/fight the zombie/etc., the dialogue still runs the show, but there are things "to do" in sense, rather than just sit back and watch the movie play out with an occasional dialogue choice.
#5
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 06:56
This is the End My Friend
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If someone is trying to sell something to me under the banner of a "videogame," I'll probably take there word for it.
#6
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 06:58
spirosz
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I don't really know, I guess it's the interactivity aspect that really makes it stand out. I love the stories and characters that are developed through different games, but one could say - why don't you just read a book if you enjoy so much? I guess I would say it's the whole "controlling" factor of the story won't unfold unless you choose to make it so, but I guess one could say a book won't unfold unless you flip the pages... I don't know personally. My favourite types of games have always been heavily driven in the story and character development aspect, like TLOU, KOTOR, Mass Effect though there are two specific games that don't really tell you much, but they both moved me in ways other games haven't - LIMBO (spoiler in the video) and Journey - those two specific moments in those two games blew me away, there is no sense of dialogue, there is no complex interaction sequences, just two beautiful experiences.
I guess it really comes down to how and what games mean to you and what they give to you, in terms of emotional value or if they're able to make you think, etc. Not to say that shooters can't have this level of investment or aren't worthy of their own praise, but it's a different type of experience that you're going through. I love TWD series and I love Beyond: Two Souls, but I can see why it might not work for some, but that's the beauty of games IMO, the different types of games you're able to create and the experience each of them are able to bring to the table is something real special - for me at least.
I guess it really comes down to how and what games mean to you and what they give to you, in terms of emotional value or if they're able to make you think, etc. Not to say that shooters can't have this level of investment or aren't worthy of their own praise, but it's a different type of experience that you're going through. I love TWD series and I love Beyond: Two Souls, but I can see why it might not work for some, but that's the beauty of games IMO, the different types of games you're able to create and the experience each of them are able to bring to the table is something real special - for me at least.
#7
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 07:04
Br3admax
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I really agree with a lot of things said here, but as for myself, I go by the textbook definition:
noun
a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
The Walking Dead is a game, because there are consequences for every action. The player can fail, and the story will end. That being said, there is nothing inherently wrong about something really just being an IM as opposed to being what I, as in me I don't set anything, would call a game. The problem stems from the story having to be much better to grab the players attention. It has to make up for no gameplay. I find that Telltale does this very well with their games, which explains a lot of their popularity, even with a less popular format for their games.
noun
a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
The Walking Dead is a game, because there are consequences for every action. The player can fail, and the story will end. That being said, there is nothing inherently wrong about something really just being an IM as opposed to being what I, as in me I don't set anything, would call a game. The problem stems from the story having to be much better to grab the players attention. It has to make up for no gameplay. I find that Telltale does this very well with their games, which explains a lot of their popularity, even with a less popular format for their games.
#8
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 07:04
spirosz
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You know what else - I believe musical scores in games add to this level of immersion as well. Films do this too. Music adds a whole other layer of "wow" factor for me, when playing or watching certain things. It's one thing to watch a scene with no music, but as soon as you hear that music with it...
Green Mile used in those links.
Green Mile used in those links.
#9
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 03:10
metatheurgist
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Gotta go with this. Stuff like this isn't new. In the Arcades there used to be Dragons Lair, the first home computers had Space Ace. They're called Interactive Movie Games - a visual presentation of a story that advances based on player skill. There's nothing original on consoles, even if they start making up new terms like QTE. It's a valid definition of video game.Br3ad wrote...
noun
a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
#10
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 04:56
Kaiser Arian XVII
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RPG books > Interactive movies.
I had an adventurous book that you were allowed in it to choose where to go and what to do and see the consequences of your choices. It was really a fun game.
I had an adventurous book that you were allowed in it to choose where to go and what to do and see the consequences of your choices. It was really a fun game.
#11
Guest_JujuSamedi_*
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 07:13
Guest_JujuSamedi_*
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Here is what I define it. A game is any system that takes in inputs by a player and that gives out rewards or penalizes the player as an output of the system. The most important thing in this system is a set of rules that limits the action that the user can take. The player's action are confirmed by these set of rules, the extent of these rules is limited on the scope.
With this definition however, it means Music,graphics and story are not esstential to the game. A game can contain these other forms of multimedia but it does not cease to become a game because these are missing. This also means story is not essential for a game but you can find a game without all of these things but you cannot find one without a set of rules and action which the player can perform
With this definition however, it means Music,graphics and story are not esstential to the game. A game can contain these other forms of multimedia but it does not cease to become a game because these are missing. This also means story is not essential for a game but you can find a game without all of these things but you cannot find one without a set of rules and action which the player can perform
Modifié par TipsLeFedora, 27 janvier 2014 - 07:15 .
#12
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 08:38
spinachdiaper
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That moment when you start a new game and the next moment when you discover you have been playing for 13 hours without a brake, or at least the truly good ones do that.
#14
Guest_JujuSamedi_*
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 12:14
Guest_JujuSamedi_*
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M25105 wrote...
Fun.
Also I like this answer.
#15
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 04:50
RedArmyShogun
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When the soul of a serial killer speaks to me as I play it, telling me to leave none alive.
#16
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 06:17
Jedi Ninja
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The story behind it, game play, the characters in it, graphics I know there's more but this is a good start
#18
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 07:04
Kaiser Arian XVII
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TipsLeFedora wrote...
M25105 wrote...
Fun.
Also I like this answer.
Good luck watching action movies and calling them games!
#19
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 08:25
Naughty Bear
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If it's packaged in a game case or sold digitally on a digital market like Marketplace and labelled as a game.
#20
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 09:19
Seival
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The Mad Hanar wrote...
What defines a game, to you?
(*) What defines a game for me is the setting of rules to follow in order to achieve certain goals, i.e. gameplay.
What defines a video game for me is (*) plus:
(1) Perfect modern visual part.
(2) Music, sounds, and speech, that perfectly correspond to the game's atmosphere.
(3) Deep, philosophical, and instructive story, based on very interesting idea(s).
(4) Possibility of role playing at some capacity.
#21
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 09:48
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
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Seival wrote...
The Mad Hanar wrote...
What defines a game, to you?
(*) What defines a game for me is the setting of rules to follow in order to achieve certain goals, i.e. gameplay.
What defines a video game for me is (*) plus:
[color=rgb(255, 153, 0)">(1) ]Perfect[/color][/i]<< modern visual part.
(2) Music, sounds, and speech, that perfectly correspond to the game's atmosphere.
(3) Deep, philosophical, and instructive story, based on very interesting idea(s).
(4) Possibility of role playing at some capacity.
You may want to rethink your criteria.
Nothing in this world is perfect.
#22
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 10:27
Seival
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EntropicAngel wrote...
Seival wrote...
The Mad Hanar wrote...
What defines a game, to you?
(*) What defines a game for me is the setting of rules to follow in order to achieve certain goals, i.e. gameplay.
What defines a video game for me is (*) plus:
[color=rgb(255, 153, 0)">(1) ]Perfect[/color][/i]<< modern visual part.
(2) Music, sounds, and speech, that perfectly correspond to the game's atmosphere.
(3) Deep, philosophical, and instructive story, based on very interesting idea(s).
(4) Possibility of role playing at some capacity.
You may want to rethink your criteria.
Nothing in this world is perfect.
You may say so, but I define perfect as something that is made with the best, or almost the best possible quality.
#23
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 27 janvier 2014 - 10:43
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
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Are you saying luck is a skill? Because from what I've seen and played of Dragon's Lair, it's just picking one of two paths and hoping the one you pick doesn't kill you.metatheurgist wrote...
Gotta go with this. Stuff like this isn't new. In the Arcades there used to be Dragons Lair, the first home computers had Space Ace. They're called Interactive Movie Games - a visual presentation of a story that advances based on player skill. There's nothing original on consoles, even if they start making up new terms like QTE. It's a valid definition of video game.Br3ad wrote...
noun
a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
#24
Posté 28 janvier 2014 - 03:23
metatheurgist
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Memory is a skill. And while a lot of Dragons Lair was luck (deliberately designed to part players from their money) many of the paths did have an intuitively correct course of action. And even if it was luck it still fits in the definition of a game that I quoted.J. Reezy wrote...
Are you saying luck is a skill? Because from what I've seen and played of Dragon's Lair, it's just picking one of two paths and hoping the one you pick doesn't kill you.metatheurgist wrote...
Gotta go with this. Stuff like this isn't new. In the Arcades there used to be Dragons Lair, the first home computers had Space Ace. They're called Interactive Movie Games - a visual presentation of a story that advances based on player skill. There's nothing original on consoles, even if they start making up new terms like QTE. It's a valid definition of video game.Br3ad wrote...
noun
a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
Modifié par metatheurgist, 28 janvier 2014 - 03:24 .
#25
Posté 28 janvier 2014 - 03:34
CybAnt1
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I guess I would say that lots of things are games.
Chess is a game. It's fun. It goes slow, and people take turns, and it is not exactly very exciting to watch.
Football is a game. You use different parts of yourself to play football vs. playing chess.
I just find it strange to hear somebody say Planescape: Torment "is not a game."
Sure felt like one to me, but then I like chess.
Some people prefer Call of Duty, or Madden, or Gears of War.
They're all games. More chess like games are not less fun, nor less games.
Why should the only thing a game tests be your reaction time, your ability to move a reticule, and your hand eye coordination?
Most video games do that. And I'm not saying I don't play FPS/shooters and some other action games. They are what they are. Just like I'll watch good films, and action films. (I kid, I kid.)
I just like, and usually prefer, games where what's being tested is my ability to think, not to twitch. That would be, particularly, strategy games where I can pause even if they are RTS, and non-action-RPGs.
Chess is a game. It's fun. It goes slow, and people take turns, and it is not exactly very exciting to watch.
Football is a game. You use different parts of yourself to play football vs. playing chess.
I just find it strange to hear somebody say Planescape: Torment "is not a game."
Sure felt like one to me, but then I like chess.
Some people prefer Call of Duty, or Madden, or Gears of War.
They're all games. More chess like games are not less fun, nor less games.
Why should the only thing a game tests be your reaction time, your ability to move a reticule, and your hand eye coordination?
Most video games do that. And I'm not saying I don't play FPS/shooters and some other action games. They are what they are. Just like I'll watch good films, and action films. (I kid, I kid.)
I just like, and usually prefer, games where what's being tested is my ability to think, not to twitch. That would be, particularly, strategy games where I can pause even if they are RTS, and non-action-RPGs.
Modifié par CybAnt1, 28 janvier 2014 - 03:36 .
