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"The Spy" column in the February 2014 issue of PC Gamer Magazine: "Mass Effect 4: Galaxy-wide retcons"?


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#76
Han Shot First

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AlanC9 wrote...

MageTarot wrote...

     According to the rumors, BioWare led by asking the question "What does N7 mean to us?" This is primarily interesting as an example of branding at work. N7 was the designation of the class of special forces soldiers that Shepard belonged to, and over the course of the series it went from being a minor detail to a huge part of the game's iconography -- particularly when it came to multiplayer. If Electronic Arts and BioWare are unwilling to lose it as a symbol, that suggests that Shepard will still have a role to play. The Spy is calling it: Mass Effect 4 will be set after the events of the trilogy, and Shepard's legend will be represented by N7 logos plastered everywhere. Expect galaxy-spanning retcons to make sense of it all.


This is just silly. N7 represents a lot of people besides Shepard, so therefore using N7 means Shepard's coming back?

And the retcon idea isn't based on anything at all.

Edit: not saying they couldn't be this stupid. Just saying that this argument is nonsense.


I agree with Alan. The predictions about retcons and that N7 question somehow relating to Shepard are nothing more than baseless speculation. The author pulled those two things out of his posterior. Basically this article has the same level of accuracy as your average BSN post.

#77
marcelo caldas

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ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Retcons seem like a sure bet, they did it for ME2 and ME3; I don't see why this wouldn't be the case for ME4.


well, I think it's better than pretend that ME1,2,3 never happend or to go for a "paralel universe/galaxy"

#78
marcelo caldas

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Dr_Extrem wrote...


a remake could work, because all characters are available and it would be a perfect opportunity to make a new set of games from scratch.
...


I think a remake is the best way to go

#79
dreamgazer

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The N7 question is obviously a sure-fire hint that James Vega will be the set protagonist in a true Gears Effect spinoff.

#80
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dreamgazer wrote...

The N7 question is obviously a sure-fire hint that James Vega will be the set protagonist in a true Gears Effect spinoff.


I already told you elsewhere you were breaking my heart. Ease up a bit, man.

#81
marcelo caldas

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dreamgazer wrote...

The N7 question is obviously a sure-fire hint that James Vega will be the set protagonist in a true Gears Effect spinoff.


God save us

#82
marcelo caldas

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dreamgazer wrote...

The N7 question is obviously a sure-fire hint that James Vega will be the set protagonist in a true Gears Effect spinoff.


they could make jar jar binks protagonist in the next TOR as well

#83
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caldas wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

The N7 question is obviously a sure-fire hint that James Vega will be the set protagonist in a true Gears Effect spinoff.


they could make jar jar binks protagonist in the next TOR as well


Maybe they should just bring Jar Jar into Mass Effect as well. :huh: If they really just want to destroy the franchise and frustrate people, then go all out. This way people finally get the message and stop hoping.

#84
Mcfly616

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iakus wrote...

Well, I'm glad you put that last part at the end how you don't think it'll happen, because there is no way in hell it will.  No way will they create full characters that might or might not exist in a given character's playthrough.  They're not going to invest that many zots in exclusive content.  Heck, I'm surprised Garrus and Tali got so much attention.  If they weren't such popular characters, they might have gotten the Ash/Kaidan treatment as well. 

Far more likely is what you get in ME3.  No character=no content.  Or at best, a Biff the Understudy.

considering the import would most likely be done via that genesis comic thing, it wouldn't be "exclusive" at all. If anything it would add replayability. Just make your choices, start playthrough. Make different choices, start next playthrough.

#85
DextroDNA

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N7 =/= Shepard.

N7 = the best humanity has to offer.

No need for retcons either, if Bioware are clever with what they do.

#86
MageTarot

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EntropicAngel wrote...

Great. Don't even have to read further to know this person will be making up even more crap, like the title of this thread. Clear bias going on here, so I'm not sure why you'd believe any of it.


Now I'm intrigued. When I titled this thread I wasn't aware anything was being made up. The term 'galaxy-wide retcons' is directly from the article. The question mark was added only to say 'Hey, this "Spy" is making a prediction that this is how the Mass Effect story will continue. Is he right?"
 
Everything within the quotation marks is what was written in the article word for word. I posted it because it dealt with the next chapter of Mass Effect and I felt others might want to read it, nothing more.

Don't shoot the messenger.Image IPB

#87
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MageTarot wrote...

Now I'm intrigued. When I titled this thread I wasn't aware anything was being made up. The term 'galaxy-wide retcons' is directly from the article. The question mark was added only to say 'Hey, this "Spy" is making a prediction that this is how the Mass Effect story will continue. Is he right?"
 
Everything within the quotation marks is what was written in the article word for word. I posted it because it dealt with the next chapter of Mass Effect and I felt others might want to read it, nothing more.

Don't shoot the messenger.Image IPB


You probably misunderstood me. i was talking about the thing you were quoting, about HIS (or her) words, the "Spy." The "Spy" said a bunch of nonsensical things about how Bioware's game-series-centered-around-a-continuous-universe doesn't need anymore games in that universe, which told me that he/she was biased at that I didn't need to consider other things he said, like the title of this thread--the Galaxy wide retcons. I was referring to HIM (or her) saying that phrase, not you.

#88
Dean_the_Young

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StreetMagic wrote...

There's way too many loose ends with the Krogan storyline to just pass it up.

Wrex or Wreav, Cure or Sabotage - and how those 4 vary in different combinations.

Then Eve. Then Eve's warning about possible civil war if Wreav acts up.

Then Grunt, if alive.

Then if you kept the Rachni queen alive and lost Arlakh company. If you sabotaged the cure, and Grunt still lives, will he be pissed if you also saved the Rachni? Or if you let the Queen die, and you sabotage, will he forgive it? In this scenario, Krogan won't be cured, but you'll probably enact something close to Okeer's vision - a badass Krogan like Grunt surviving the aftermath of sabotage and surviving the slow destruction of Tuchanka, crawling atop all of the dead.

Or, if you did everything "ideally", and cured the Genophage, have Eve alive, have Wrex and Grunt alive.. then what becomes of Wrex and Grunt? Does Wrex eventually pass the baton? Or does he live out his life with a sore quad, siring half of Tuchnanka, and eventually overrun the galaxy with Krogan?

....

Sigh. Eh, maybe they should ignore it actually. To quote Mordin: "Too many variables! Too many variables!"


I'll just point out that while no game or Bioware story would ever follow all those different threads to such an extent, they really don't need to in order to reflect them on a macro level. As long as the reflections serve the same narrative purpose, seemingly large divergences can serve interchangeably for the same roles- none of which require them to be a focus of the sequel.

What does that mean in the process? How could it actually work?

Well, think of Krogan in a hypothetical post-Destroy setting where the Relay network is maybe in its infancy of being reconnected. Large parts of the galaxy are still distant journeys away, decades even, and well outside the player's area of access.

Just with that map restriction alone (a way to justify a limited galaxy map, the same as ME1 and ME2 gave without a rational), the Krogan aren't a necessary plot focus anymore. As placement of new relays is arbitrary and suits the needs of the plot, the Krogan are as important and unimportant as we wish. And if we wish the Krogan to be a minor presence, at the margins of the plot like various other species were in Shepard's story... well, there's not much the Krogan can do about it. Tuchanka is a long ways away, and whether it's the heart of a local Krogan Empire or a barren, genophaged wasteland doesn't really matter.

So, just with setting context alone, we can limit the Krogan's role as much as we want. That doesn't mean they have to be totally absent, with slow-FTL travel justifying the availability, but they don't have to be a major actor either. They do not need to be a major arc devouring plot oxygen if we don't want them to be, which also means we don't have to go into too many details about their status and differences if we don't want to.



Now say the Krogan are not a major arc. Open space for new species and major plot threads in our new trilogy, without being tangled by the past too much. How could we give the Krogan a reflective, but not dominant, role? Say, as a minor participant or actor in some new galactic conferance?

Here's where interchangeable differences come in. If the Krogan are a minor power in the immediate context no matter what, then the reasons they're a minor power matter less: that can be flavor dialogue. But how?

Well, first take the biggest choice: the Genophage. The difference between Krogan Empire and Krogan Remnants.

Let's say that the Krogan Remnants, no matter who ruled between Wrex and Wreave, are the last organized force of Krogan around. Cynical, Jaded, and the last of a species that tore what was left of it apart when the fake genophage was realized. We can even say that a resulting civil war (the unified clans revolting against Clan Urdnot for being duped) has even killed the females, truly dooming the species. Wrex, Wreave, it doesn't matter- both could be dead at this point, leaving just the Remnants as a wandering, doomed army of fatalists looking to go out in one last glorious battle. For kicks, maybe this last army is under Grunt. At this point, who they fight doesn't really matter either- they have a grudge against everyone that matters, and favor no one.

So, if you Genophaged the Krogan, come ME4 they are an army looking to go down in history for a great finale. Not a major power, but their force could be an important deciding factor in the resolution.


Second branch is the Krogan Empire. The reason why this is a minor power can be simple: sheer distance. No matter who is in charge, the sheer distance can mean the Krogan can dominate their local region utterly without being a major foce in the distant setting. For bonus points, their 'neighbors', and the various slow-FTL space lanes, could be nervous and defensive, serving as a buffer to the off-screen Krogan Empire. And, to top it off, since there's little reason for a genophage-cured Krogan to stay united behing Wrex/Wreave forever, the Krogan could be dealing with internal issues and so are distracted at the time. Wrex is struggling to keep bad Krogan revaunchists from breaking out, while Wreave is focused on staying in power.

In short, the Krogan Empire has a diplomatic presence, but only a small role, and all this independent of who reigns.

Which leaves the rest, as said before, as flavor for reflecting the previous choices. That gets pretty simple, being largely cosmetic that can be given by an ambassadorial exposition figure, and can be simplified by 'Wreave is a scary expansionist', 'Wrex is a more reasonable, honorable expansionist', and 'Eve is the mitigating factor.'

Wrex-Eve, for example, could be portrayed as a honorable force for good. Wrex's pragmitism and willingness to bargain using the Krogan's position is balanced by Eve's insistence on the Krogan not making needless enemies. The Krogan are possibly even respected peace keepers, leveraging security agreements and respecting their neighbors for a good reputation by those who know them.

Wrex without Eve is still basically honorable, but far more self-interested. Making local allies, and crushing enemies who hurt them, the Krogan are viewed with some tripidation but not outright fear. They can be bargained with, and Wrex is good for his word even if he drives a hard bargain in the process.


Wreave without Eve is the worst of all Krogan. Violent, expansionist, and only restrained by fearful neighbors, internal power struggles, and Wreave's naked ambition. Everyone fears Krogan power growing... but everyone fears fighting that power more, and wants it pointed away from them more.

Wreave with Eve is mitigated. Possibly Eve leads a major civil war against him, cutting into his power base. Maybe she's too valuable and influential to kill, forcing him to reign in some. The Krogan are still feared... but the rest of the galaxy has an advocate of sorts all the same.


In summary, regardless of Eve, Wrex is willing to leverage his Krogan Empire as an honorable partner for whichever side is in the better Krogan interest, and Wreave is willing to side with the side that offers him the better prizes. Eve, Grunt, even the Rachni- they can be superficial affectors, but don't need to alter this core dynamic.


So our Krogan have three main states that cover all the important Krogan decisions: Wrex, Wreave, and Remnants. In tone, character, and at home they would all be extremely different, reflected by different cameo actors.

But from a distance, such as our hypothetical ME4 setting far away from Krogan space, they share the same traits: effectively neutral, self-interested, and possibly having a modest local force that could make a difference.

In other words, prime recruitment candidates for whatever the next Big Conflict is stewing. Like a spark igniting a conflict between those who want to rebuild relays and re-establish a Council system, and those who oppose that.

You have a role for them. You have carry over reflections. And you even have a convenient basis to not need to dwell on them much going foward: come the sequals, the Krogan Remnants are used up while the Krogan Empires can be fighting the Great Offscreen War that's just a small part of the overall galactic conflict.

Never need they be forgotten and ignorred, but neither do they need to dominate the next plot arc.

#89
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I wish I could find the article where BW said that shepard is gone and it was strongly suggested (without stating it outright) that they were going to do it simultaneously against ME1/ME2 timeline before reapers hit since prequel seems pointless and they sort of screwed themselves with the ending options - or at least with synthesis which adds a kink in that armor. Had they not added in synthesis they could have just moved forward. Classic case of writing themselves into a corner. Now we'll be stuck in a galaxy knowing that the reapers are coming and we're screwed if what I read was accurate and the suggestion is what we get.

#90
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@Dean

Well hell.. Thanks for writing all of that. Something to think about. I don't have anything to add to it. Just acknowledging it.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 28 janvier 2014 - 09:56 .


#91
Dean_the_Young

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You're welcome.

If you are interested in my elaborated thoughts on what the next ME trilogy could be, you might find the following to be of interest.

http://social.biowar...scussion/20924/

#92
LinksOcarina

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Got to love shoddy gossip journalism.

#93
SwobyJ

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@Dean - The basic idea is especially true. All the stuff we do in ME1-3 can be technically reflected, even in minor ways, depending on what the focus of the next story is.
The ONLY truly difficult one to deal with (at least from a literal POV, which hehhh I don't really follow :P) is the Crucible choice.

But that reallyyy only comes down to:
Destroy - No Geth, no EDI, no Reapers, no green connection.
Control - Geth or no Geth, EDI or no EDI(?), Reapers, no green connection
Synthesis - Geth or no Geth, EDI, Reapers, green conntection
Refuse - Might be the ShepDies ending where it won't affect the next game.

Account for the Reapers always being around in some form, or always away in some form.
Account for EDI's fate (or ignore it mostly?).
Account for the effect of the green. Maybe even have it 'fade over time' (the greatest cop out haha) but keep its general effects (peace and understanding between specifically synthetics and organics?)?
Account for Geth being there or not being there.

And there we go.

None of this has to be what the next game is about.

I'm being 100% hypothetical with all of this.

#94
Azaron Nightblade

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Galaxy-wide retcons expected. not concerned.


Pretty much.
Heck, I'd welcome it.