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Would you want the love interests to be like DAO or DA2?


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#301
Tarek

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eyezonlyii wrote...

I like the option of characters having set preferences as well so long as the romances for everyone are taken seriously. For example in ME3 I liked the fact that I ad an option between Kaidan and Steve. Both were very well done men. However, I didn't like the fact that in DA:O, all I had was Zevran because he didn't seem to take a romance seriously for either gender.
Anyway, I would be ok with a few party romances and some NPC romances so long as the latter got some content to enjoy the company of the Inquisitor when s/he is not...uh..inquiring...as well.


indeed in ME1 and 2 and DA:O .... gay men got the short end of the stick

#302
Tarek

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eluvianix wrote...

Raven489 wrote...

Is this supposed to be the Grey Warden, or not!? If so, total DILF.

Yup...he's so hot. :wub:
Image IPB



hmmmm I'd tap DAT :police:

#303
Bail_Darilar

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If we're talking about companion orientations, I think they should be appropriate for the character ie more like DAO. I didn't mind all character being bi in DA2 but I think it was a bit unrealistic. Having a purely gay/lesbian character however would be interesting and much more realistic.

However if we're talking in terms of approach, progression etc then DA2 is the way to go, it was a bit disconnecting how quickly you could complete a romance with a character in DAO and exploit it with gifts. DA2 felt more natural with a larger span of in-game time and the whole friendship/rivalry system changed the dynamics of the relationship.

From what I gather however they are planning on having an event/conversation based friendship/romance progression system where your actions as well as your dialogue affect your relationships in a more organic way. It also seems as if there will be options for all players regardless of orientation.

#304
x-aizen-x

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I want more hot girls who are bad. I also want a hot qunari women...just to "try it out"

#305
Sundance31us

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x-aizen-x wrote...

I want more hot girls who are bad. I also want a hot qunari women...just to "try it out"

I have a feeling one simply doesn't try out Qunari females......and live. :whistle:

#306
Naesaki

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Tarek wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Raven489 wrote...

Is this supposed to be the Grey Warden, or not!? If so, total DILF.

Yup...he's so hot. :wub:



hmmmm I'd tap DAT :police:


Now that is what I call a true manly man, wouldn't mind caressing my fingers through his mighty beard :wub: :lol: seriously though if he turns out to be a love gay love interest, I will end up picking him everytime, really is just my type :D

god re-reading this really makes me sound like some kind of depraved person doesn't it :pinched:

Sundance31us wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

I want more hot girls who are bad. I also want a hot qunari women...just to "try it out"

I have a feeling one simply doesn't try out Qunari females......and live. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]


Death by Snu Snu!?

Modifié par Naesaki, 28 janvier 2014 - 04:24 .


#307
Sylvius the Mad

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KiwiQuiche wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Kiwi did you know that Gaider originally wanted Nathan Fillion to voice Alistair?


Hmm...I've got mixed feelings about that- Alistair is way too tweed as pie for Nathan's voice. He needs a Mal. :D

Alistair was originally written as a Mal.  Or at least that's what David said he was going for.  The other writers said he ended up with more of a Xander Harris.

#308
Hellion Rex

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Naesaki wrote...

Tarek wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Raven489 wrote...

Is this supposed to be the Grey Warden, or not!? If so, total DILF.

Yup...he's so hot. :wub:



hmmmm I'd tap DAT :police:


Now that is what I call a true manly man, wouldn't mind caressing my fingers through his mighty beard :wub: :lol: seriously though if he turns out to be a love gay love interest, I will end up picking him everytime, really is just my type :D

god re-reading this really makes me sound like some kind of depraved person doesn't it :pinched:

No more depraved than I. He's just my type too! Hot daddy romance FTW!

#309
Sylvius the Mad

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iakus wrote...

How is that not the same thing?  It is, in  fact, exactly the same thing.  It is the player determining aspects of the NPCs.

Because one of them happens inside the game world, and the other doesn't.

If the preferences of the characters are set because of something one of the other characters did, that's bad.  But if the preferences of the characters are set because of something the player does outside of the game world, that's exactly how character creation works.  If you accept that the player is allowed to create a character at all, then you should also accept this.

#310
Nerdage

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As far as who we're able to romance in a given playthrough goes: neither.

I don't like gender being the gating mechanism for romances. Who you romance can go a long way to helping define your own character, so to lock some options off entirely based on PC gender - which we chose with absolutely no context, given that we've only just started the game - feels to me like a waste of some good roleplaying opportunities. It also seems quite arbitrary, since characters don't just stop working if you change their sexual orientation (it's really nothing to do with the kind of character they are), which you could say works both ways but then why not err on the side of giving the player more options?

But then in DA2 they would all just fall at your feet. I don't think the problem is that gender isn't an issue, it's that there are literally no issues at all, for any of them. If they could make some (or ideally, all) of the romances dependent on how you've played your character and the decisions you've made, maybe make the prerequisites for some of them mutually exclusive so there would always be at least some characters who would turn you down and stop the whole cast feeling like putty, that would be great. Maybe that's more complex than they want to make a relatively small part of the game, but that's what I'd like in an ideal world.



4 is a pretty decent number for romance options, especially if they don't lock any off due to gender, and as far as sex scenes are concerned I really couldn't care less.


Guess I'm pretty easily baited, because I don't know how many times I've written basically this same post..

#311
The Spirit of Dance

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Make more than 4 romance options but do so in a way that due to the LI's preferences you can only romance 1 out of 3 or so people per playthrough.

ex:
There's a dwarf companion that's not into humans or Qunari.
An elf thats straight and would never get in a relationship with humans due to some past trauma.

However since that will take too much time and effort for something that appears to becoming less and less important to the dragon age team how about just 6 romance options with 3 bis from each gender. 'Player sexual' never really bothered me.

Modifié par supremebloodwolf, 28 janvier 2014 - 06:42 .


#312
Sporothrix

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Tarek wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

I like the option of characters having set preferences as well so long as the romances for everyone are taken seriously. For example in ME3 I liked the fact that I ad an option between Kaidan and Steve. Both were very well done men. However, I didn't like the fact that in DA:O, all I had was Zevran because he didn't seem to take a romance seriously for either gender.
Anyway, I would be ok with a few party romances and some NPC romances so long as the latter got some content to enjoy the company of the Inquisitor when s/he is not...uh..inquiring...as well.


indeed in ME1 and 2 and DA:O .... gay men got the short end of the stick

I would say that romance with Leliana lacked certain elements when you played as female - there wasn't even party banter about that, when you had it when you had gay romance with Zevran.

And as for ME, there wasn't any gay male romance in 1 and 2, but TBH it didn't feel good when all we got was simply "Discount lesbian" option, and we were reminded all the time that it's not for us, that it's just titillaton for male fans.

And in ME3, gay men were treated much better IMO. There was in-game acknowledgement of your orientation, while female characters, just like in ME2, were forced whether we liked it or not to flirt with certain male character. Nothing has been done to Liara romance to indicate that dev's words that "it's nothing really lesbian" isn't true.
And the only unambiguously lesbian romance has been executed very poorly compared with gay male one, it barely had any dialogues and lacked important scenes (like meeting on Citadel, that EVERY other romance had), most of work has been focused on tasteless shower sex scene (which, if you followed that route, deprived you from large part of character-building dialogue with her), and on teasing straight men, while conversation of female Shepard with Steve showed respect for HIS sexuality.

Modifié par misoretu9, 28 janvier 2014 - 07:10 .


#313
Secretlyapotato

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Don't care about sex scenes, don't care about straight/bi/gay romances unless it gets in the way of what I want (I love you Steve D':) and yes more options is always nice.

#314
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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Wouldn't mind both females being bi. Whether or not the males are is irrelevant to anything I'd be likely to do.

#315
Hellion Rex

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misoretu9 wrote...

Tarek wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

I like the option of characters having set preferences as well so long as the romances for everyone are taken seriously. For example in ME3 I liked the fact that I ad an option between Kaidan and Steve. Both were very well done men. However, I didn't like the fact that in DA:O, all I had was Zevran because he didn't seem to take a romance seriously for either gender.
Anyway, I would be ok with a few party romances and some NPC romances so long as the latter got some content to enjoy the company of the Inquisitor when s/he is not...uh..inquiring...as well.


indeed in ME1 and 2 and DA:O .... gay men got the short end of the stick

I would say that romance with Leliana lacked certain elements when you played as female - there wasn't even party banter about that, when you had it when you had gay romance with Zevran.

And as for ME, there wasn't any gay male romance in 1 and 2, but TBH it didn't feel good when all we got was simply "Discount lesbian" option, and we were reminded all the time that it's not for us, that it's just titillaton for male fans.

And in ME3, gay men were treated much better IMO. There was in-game acknowledgement of your orientation, while female characters, just like in ME2, were forced whether we liked it or not to flirt with certain male character. Nothing has been done to Liara romance to indicate that dev's words that "it's nothing really lesbian" isn't true.
And the only unambiguously lesbian romance has been executed very poorly compared with gay male one, it barely had any dialogues and lacked important scenes (like meeting on Citadel, that EVERY other romance had), most of work has been focused on tasteless shower sex scene (which, if you followed that route, deprived you from large part of character-building dialogue with her), and on teasing straight men, while conversation of female Shepard with Steve showed respect for HIS sexuality.

It's been a while since I romanced Kaidan as guy, and Zevran's romance as a guy. What ingame acknowledgement of orientation did DAO and ME3 have? I honestly can't remember any.

#316
Sporothrix

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eluvianix wrote...

misoretu9 wrote...

Tarek wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

I like the option of characters having set preferences as well so long as the romances for everyone are taken seriously. For example in ME3 I liked the fact that I ad an option between Kaidan and Steve. Both were very well done men. However, I didn't like the fact that in DA:O, all I had was Zevran because he didn't seem to take a romance seriously for either gender.
Anyway, I would be ok with a few party romances and some NPC romances so long as the latter got some content to enjoy the company of the Inquisitor when s/he is not...uh..inquiring...as well.


indeed in ME1 and 2 and DA:O .... gay men got the short end of the stick

I would say that romance with Leliana lacked certain elements when you played as female - there wasn't even party banter about that, when you had it when you had gay romance with Zevran.

And as for ME, there wasn't any gay male romance in 1 and 2, but TBH it didn't feel good when all we got was simply "Discount lesbian" option, and we were reminded all the time that it's not for us, that it's just titillaton for male fans.

And in ME3, gay men were treated much better IMO. There was in-game acknowledgement of your orientation, while female characters, just like in ME2, were forced whether we liked it or not to flirt with certain male character. Nothing has been done to Liara romance to indicate that dev's words that "it's nothing really lesbian" isn't true.
And the only unambiguously lesbian romance has been executed very poorly compared with gay male one, it barely had any dialogues and lacked important scenes (like meeting on Citadel, that EVERY other romance had), most of work has been focused on tasteless shower sex scene (which, if you followed that route, deprived you from large part of character-building dialogue with her), and on teasing straight men, while conversation of female Shepard with Steve showed respect for HIS sexuality.

It's been a while since I romanced Kaidan as guy, and Zevran's romance as a guy. What ingame acknowledgement of orientation did DAO and ME3 have? I honestly can't remember any.


I said there was party banter about male character romancing Zevran, different from one female character who romanced him had.

As for ME3, romancing Steve provided some discussion about Shepard's love life, IIRC that he waited for the right man of something like that.

Modifié par misoretu9, 28 janvier 2014 - 07:20 .


#317
daveliam

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misoretu9 wrote...

I would say that romance with Leliana lacked certain elements when you played as female - there wasn't even party banter about that, when you had it when you had gay romance with Zevran.

And as for ME, there wasn't any gay male romance in 1 and 2, but TBH it didn't feel good when all we got was simply "Discount lesbian" option, and we were reminded all the time that it's not for us, that it's just titillaton for male fans.

And in ME3, gay men were treated much better IMO. There was in-game acknowledgement of your orientation, while female characters, just like in ME2, were forced whether we liked it or not to flirt with certain male character. Nothing has been done to Liara romance to indicate that dev's words that "it's nothing really lesbian" isn't true.
And the only unambiguously lesbian romance has been executed very poorly compared with gay male one, it barely had any dialogues and lacked important scenes (like meeting on Citadel, that EVERY other romance had), most of work has been focused on tasteless shower sex scene (which, if you followed that route, deprived you from large part of character-building dialogue with her), and on teasing straight men, while conversation of female Shepard with Steve showed respect for HIS sexuality.


Yeah, I think it's fair to state that both m/m and f/f romances have gotten the "short end of the stick" so far, but in different ways.  They seem to have taken a quality over quantity approach for the m/m romances.  Did you know that there have only been 6 m/m romances EVER in Bioware games?  That's crazy to me.  While I've been disappointed by the lack of m/m options in most Bioware games, I've found that the ones that do exist are well-written and enjoyable (for the most part).

Contrast that with f/f romances, which is more quantity over quality.  There have been 12 different f/f romance options in Bioware games, but most of them are quasi-romances (like Juhani, Samara, Morinth, Kelly, etc) and, of course, there's the invalidation of f/f argument from the ME team about Liara (Which I'll never understand.  They specifically wrote that asari were an ALL FEMALE race, so how can you deny that FemShep and Liara is a f/f romance?).  Yes, you have the option to express romantic interest in a female character and have that reciprocated, but the content is so much less satisfying than the other romances in the same games. 

This is why I'm in favor of the all bisexual LI approach.  It feels to me that this is the only way that I can get an equitable amount of content for my character.  I just don't see the writers being able to offer really well developed and interesting s/s romance options with the limited resources, so I'd rather sacrifice some of the character "uniqueness" in order to get the same access to the (slightly weaker) content than everyone else.

Now, that being said, Bioware has continued to impress me with their continued focus on the s/s romance aspect of their games.  Romances have been in Bioware games since 2000, but we didn't see any s/s romance content until 2005.  (Of course there was a 4 year period before Zevran showed up after Sky for m/m options)  Then, we didn't see mulitple s/s romance options in the same game until 2010 (f/f) and 2011 (m/m).  Since 2011, however, both of the games that have been released have have multiple s/s romance options and I'm assuming it will be the same with DA: I.

While it hasn't been perfect, Bioware has done more for the s/s community in terms of equitable game content than most other game companies and, for that, I'm always going to be grateful.

Modifié par daveliam, 28 janvier 2014 - 07:32 .


#318
Thomas Andresen

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I would say that romance with Leliana lacked certain elements when you played as female - there wasn't even party banter about that, when you had it when you had gay romance with Zevran.

For the Leliana F/F romance, I'd say that a lack of "acknowledgement" could rather be taken as "nothing strange going on here, why are we even talking about this?" Though in DA2, the F/F relationships had Gamlen coming up with the most stereotypical leery comment conceivable, which, when you think of it, is entirely in line with the rest of his character. It conjures up an image of him as a peeping tom with the hungriest eyes imaginable. Yuk.

There have been 12 different f/f romance options in Bioware games, but most of them are quasi-romances (like Juhani, Samara, Morinth, Kelly, etc) and, of course, there's the invalidation of f/f argument from the ME team about Liara (Which I'll never understand.

The Juhani romance were so subtle, I did it several times over, without even realising that it was a romance until I read about it later. Which, to be honest, makes it rather hard to acknowledge as an actual romance.

#319
Han Shot First

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I see no downside to playersexual love interests. None at all.


The downside is that it makes the companion characters feel a little less real. Their personalities and interests are now being issued to them by the player character rather being determined by those characters themselves.

Less real to whom?

The player?  The player knows they aren't real.  This can't be a real objection.

The PC?  The PC doesn't ever see more than one playthrough, so the PC can't ever know that they're playersexual.


In any work of fiction of course the reader, viewer, or player knows the characters aren't real. We are able to look beyond that however and get engrossed in the story, if the story is written in such a way that it allows us to suspend disbelief. Characters having their opinions issued to them by the player character strains suspension of disbelief, because real people do not act that way.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...



To use an example, imagine for a moment if characters had no set opinion on the Mage-Templar conflict until the player character told them which way to lean. These characters would be pro-Mage if the player character was pro-Mage, pro-Templar if the player character is pro-Templar. Its kind of the same thing.

That's entirely different.  In this case, it's the player's character that is causing the change in behaviour.  That would make the characters less real.

But playersexual romances are caused not by the player's character's choices, but by the player's choices directly.  The player doesn't even exist within the game world.  How can the characters in the game be aware that the player is doing anything?


It is exactly the same as having a character's views on the Mage-Templar conflict alter based on which way you play your character. In a playersexual approach the sexuality of the companion characters is being entirely determined by the player character. The player is getting to choose whether that companion character is heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. I don't believe the player character should ever have that option. It strains suspension of disbelief.

I'd rather have my player character make a pass at a companion and be told "No thanks, I'm only into women" than have a companion character who might otherwise be a lesbian, shift to "I used to only be into women, until I met you!" just because my player character is a heterosexual male.

Of course there is no right or wrong way to do it when handling the romance options. It all boils down to personal preferences. I just find the playersexual approach to be incredibly lame, and for me at least it strains suspension of disbelief.

#320
daveliam

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Thomas Andresen wrote...


There have been 12 different f/f romance options in Bioware games, but most of them are quasi-romances (like Juhani, Samara, Morinth, Kelly, etc) and, of course, there's the invalidation of f/f argument from the ME team about Liara (Which I'll never understand.

The Juhani romance were so subtle, I did it several times over, without even realising that it was a romance until I read about it later. Which, to be honest, makes it rather hard to acknowledge as an actual romance.


I totally agree with you that it's not the same thing as the other romances.  That's kind of my point.  It's a poor replica of a romance that barely counts at all.  Of course, that being said, the fact that they allowed a female Revan to express interest in Juhani and then have Juhani reciprocate those feelings is significant because it was the first time that there was any kind of option like that in a Bioware game.  Juhani, as lame as her romance was, really was the trailblazer for s/s romance in that respect.

#321
eyezonlyii

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misoretu9 wrote...

I said there was party banter about male character romancing Zevran, different from one female character who romanced him had.

As for ME3, romancing Steve provided some discussion about Shepard's love life, IIRC that he waited for the right man of something like that.


that quote only happens when Steve is asking why you haven't romanced anyone previously. It's not really like anyone says anything besides i think Vega (Citadel DLC when he comments on everyone's romances) and I know Javik talks about Kaidan and Shepard.

#322
Naesaki

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eluvianix wrote...

No more depraved than I. He's just my type too! Hot daddy romance FTW!


I just really hope we got a hot bear / daddy like romanceable character...its fun to dream ;(

I was tempted once in Origins to use that mod to make Alistair romanceable to a male wardem, but in the end it felt too cheap and unauthentic, so I grin and bear and play a female noble warden xD always my prefered world state, Human Noble Queen with Alistair


btw Eluvianix just noticed you keep changing your profile picture every couple of hours xD

Modifié par Naesaki, 28 janvier 2014 - 08:17 .


#323
LPPrince

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 Closer to DAO than DA2, but if I had the powaaaaaaah,

I'd not write them with the players in mind. I'd write them with only the setting/themselves in mind. I wouldn't want to cater by making everyone eligible to everyone, that to me seems artificial and weak. I also wouldn't want to think, "Welp, I have two bisexual characters here, guess I need to add two heterosexual options to equal it".

I'd want these characters to feel as real as possible. Dragons, magic, thats all fiction, but a person is real, and as such I want to believe these characters could exist in my reality.

I'm of the opinion that sexual preference is part of who someone is, not what someone is.
 
What someone is can change on a dime, but who someone is can last a lifetime.

With that in my mind, I feel like a character is fundamentally a different person depending on their sexuality. I see it as an important part of who they are. I don't think I can write a character that is truly the same if they have a different natural code driving them to have feelings or not have feelings for someone, whatever the reason.

Thus, as I'm writing, I'll come up with ideas and create a character and they're set in stone. They are who they are, and thats it.

I'm currently wondering- if I was writing the characters for this game(or any game for that matter), and I just so happened to realize that each romanceable companion was not heterosexual as I am, would I rewrite them to suit myself and people more like me, or would I just continue head on with the homosexuals, pansexuals, etc etc that I may have written?

I'd like to think I'd go full steam ahead. Maybe have other non-romanceable characters be approachable and heterosexual even, but have them turn down the player character for various reasons.

Hell, I'd have even the romanceable characters turn down the player character for various reasons.

In reality, when pursuing a romantic connection with someone, who someone is and what someone is can lead to a disconnect, a mismatch, or the two-way street that is a relationship really just being a one way road into a dead end.

Perhaps I run into the most amazing, majestic, fantastic, brilliant, sweetest of sweethearts I've ever met in my entire life and I'm head over heels smitten with the girl. Good for me, but maybe she's not attracted to guys. Or maybe she is but she doesn't like that I have long hair. Or maybe she's fine with that but my belief-system is a mood killer. Or perhaps I just said something stupid.

Maybe its me.

I would want the parts of these fantasy games that have a bearing in reality to feel as real as possible so I don't feel so disconnected. Because of this, I'd want the game to take romance seriously enough that there isn't some quota of "this many hetero's, this many bi's" to be filled, or just making everyone available to everyone so that its too easy to be believable.

I want who my character is and what my character is to be important. I want who and what the romanceable and non-romanceable characters are to be important. 

Important enough to matter, so maybe if my Inquisitor runs into the most amazing, majestic, fantastic, brilliant, sweetest of sweethearts he/she has ever met in their entire lives and falls head over heels smitten with the girl/guy, maybe it just won't work. Maybe it won't be reciprocated. Maybe the two way street's really a one way road into a dead end.

Maybe its me.

Modifié par LPPrince, 28 janvier 2014 - 08:23 .


#324
Hellion Rex

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Naesaki wrote...
I just really hope we got a hot bear / daddy like romanceable character...its fun to dream ;(

I was tempted once in Origins to use that mod to make Alistair romanceable to a male wardem, but in the end it felt too cheap and unauthentic, so I grin and bear and play a female noble warden xD always my prefered world state, Human Noble Queen with Alistair


btw Eluvianix just noticed you keep changing your profile picture every couple of hours xD


Yeah, I know lol. I changed it cause people were saying he looked too much like Alrik. Anyways, yes yes, and yes!!!!! We need a hot bear romance. I would kill for that. The Grey Warden might be the answer to our prayers.

#325
XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX

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eyezonlyii wrote...

misoretu9 wrote...

I said there was party banter about male character romancing Zevran, different from one female character who romanced him had.

As for ME3, romancing Steve provided some discussion about Shepard's love life, IIRC that he waited for the right man of something like that.


that quote only happens when Steve is asking why you haven't romanced anyone previously. It's not really like anyone says anything besides i think Vega (Citadel DLC when he comments on everyone's romances) and I know Javik talks about Kaidan and Shepard.


Vega talks about every romance? i remember doing it with a femshep/samantha relationship & he never mentioned it although he did mention a liara relationship.