554 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

DAO, though I know that won't happen.

I will settle for not having to take penalties for not being railroaded into a relationship. Hint. Hint.

This always strikes me as an odd objection, really. 

I mean, you could easily max out Anders' friendship in Act 1. 15 rivalry points was nothing if your goal is eventually to be friendly - and it actually helps, if your goal is rivalry. 

Granted at the time people seemed to have a visceral reaction to being "punished", with rivalry being red, so perhaps it was more an issue of presentation. 

If the issue was the approval system being linked to the romantic storyline, then I'm a bit conflicted. If high approval is needed to progress the relationship, then why wouldn't rejecting a relationship lead to a loss of approval? On the other hand, there's a good argument to be made that since most of the rivalry/friendship actions are linked to different ideologies and moral viewpoints, linking it to rejecting a romantic advance does seem a bit out of place.

[Grieving Natashina]

I always thought the idea of rivalmances was a little strange anyhow. Too much "Slap Kiss Kiss," for me.

[Heimdall]

Starsyn wrote...

I always thought the idea of rivalmances was a little strange anyhow. Too much "Slap Kiss Kiss," for me.

It worked better for some than for others.  I liked Merrill's.

[DRTJR]

Starsyn wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...


There are two "Yes" options, and one violently "no" option. I think the intent there is pretty clear? It wouldn't be quite as bad if there was a neutral out, or at least "no" that didn't come off as "I'm completely disgusted by you and everything you stand for".

You do have a neutral option. This is the video showing his first flirt with a male!Hawke:

http://www.youtube.c...bdBrsQNNYs#t=69

The top answer, the netural one, is simply "I'm sorry."  That's it.  Diplomatic icon.  

If you pick the top option, you don't get any rivarly points.   I had a play session not 5 days ago that had him as a friend.  I picked that answer.  He doesn't hit on you again either.   

So, where is the railroading again?

The Anders flirt conversation is viewed by many as this

[Iakus]

Starsyn wrote...

I agree about the timing, but I never saw it as any kind of huge deal. I reject him, I see rivalry pop up. I felt that was pretty realistic, to be honest. He hits on you, he's rejected and he's hurt. However, he gets over it, especially if you show dedication to the mages.

The rivalry points for shutting down Anders kinda shows the flaw in the firendship/rivalry system.  Comparing situations where you get a complementary amount of rivalry points shows how douche-like Hawke can be to get that amount of points

I also felt this quote by David was relevant:

One, the double standard. I suppose in the future we should just suck up the fact that men hitting on men causes a lot more squick than women hitting on women… because nobody brings up Isabela hitting on female players without being flirted with first, only Anders. And those are the only two romance characters who do it. We talked about it and thought, “Why not? Seems fair.” The reactions have sometimes been pretty funny, but overall probably not worth the trouble.

Isabela is a free-spirited party girl who has the personality that says "Flirt with anything"  Anders is a creepy loner that sinks into violence and madness over the years

I think I know who I'd rather have flirt with me

[Wulfram]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

DAO, though I know that won't happen.

I will settle for not having to take penalties for not being railroaded into a relationship. Hint. Hint.

This always strikes me as an odd objection, really. 

I mean, you could easily max out Anders' friendship in Act 1. 15 rivalry points was nothing if your goal is eventually to be friendly - and it actually helps, if your goal is rivalry.

Granted at the time people seemed to have a visceral reaction to being "punished", with rivalry being red, so perhaps it was more an issue of presentation.

If you get the conversation in question, your goal is not going to be rivalry, the conversation only happens if you're supportive about the whole abomination thing.  Rivalry is in this context definitely negative

It is true that such a player probably shouldn't have much trouble maxing out the bar anyway, but of course you don't necessarily know this at the time.

[Grieving Natashina]

@ DR...Need I remind you that CAD is a comedy comic? That usually uses humor for the case of exaggeration? And not a very good comic either, (miscarriage storyline, anyone?) but I digress.

Again, that isn't true. That's perception, not reality. The reality is, you can ignore Anders' advances entirely and not get rivalry for it. Yes, even as a male!Hawke

I'm sorry= A neutral answer. No rivalry points. I have played a male!Hawke and it works for him too.

I have to ask: When was the last time you even played DA2?

@iakus: Again, how is that different than Anders hitting on you?  You see Anders as violent and crazed.  Some see Isabela just as creepy and oversexual and a bad example of women in video games.  I see it neither way, but it is going to be varied.

I haven't heard too many female posters (even ones that play male!Hawkes) complain about Anders unexpectedly hitting on them.  

Delayed Edit: Stupid typos, stupid spacing <grumble>

Modifié par Starsyn, 31 janvier 2014 - 09:20 .

[LPPrince]

There was also the fact that many people(myself included) didn't get the impression from Anders in Awakening that he was into men as well as women, which probably made it even more out of left field.

I didn't run into that with DA2 since FemHawke and all, but I recall other forumgoers bringing that up.

[AutumnWitch]

I want a pretty girl I can take home to mum and a bad girl I can take home whenever I want. ;-P

[Grieving Natashina]

LPPrince wrote...

There was also the fact that many people(myself included) didn't get the impression from Anders in Awakening that he was into men as well as women, which probably made it even more out of left field.

My best friend came out of the closet when he was 20 as a bisexual male.  I went to high school with him and you would have never thought.  His friends, including me, never saw it coming.  Still, it didn't change who he was.  He was just honest about it and I feel it's the same with Anders.

Also, while Anders talks about Karl, he never does identify himself as bisexual.  Neither does Isabela for that matter.  David has brought that up, several times.  Sexuality doesn't seem to be as important as the person involved.  Pansexual would be much closer for those characters.  

Modifié par Starsyn, 31 janvier 2014 - 09:04 .

[Grieving Natashina]

AutumnWitch wrote...

I want a pretty girl I can take home to mum and a bad girl I can take home whenever I want. ;-P

This quote came to mind:

Good girls go to Heaven, but the bad girls go everywhere." 

[SurelyForth]

iakus wrote...

Isabela is a free-spirited party girl who has the personality that says "Flirt with anything"  Anders is a creepy loner that sinks into violence and madness over the years

I think I know who I'd rather have flirt with me

Treat Anders like a creepy loner and he won't flirt with you. Problem solved.

[AutumnWitch]

SurelyForth wrote...

iakus wrote...

Isabela is a free-spirited party girl who has the personality that says "Flirt with anything"  Anders is a creepy loner that sinks into violence and madness over the years

I think I know who I'd rather have flirt with me

Treat Anders like a creepy loner and he won't flirt with you. Problem solved.

Pretty  much what I do.

[Grieving Natashina]

Besides, the whole Anders thing is a moot point now. David has said that he probably won't be doing that again and he wasn't sure it was worth the trouble in the first place.

Modifié par Starsyn, 31 janvier 2014 - 09:17 .

[KaiserShep]

iakus wrote...

Isabela is a free-spirited party girl who has the personality that says "Flirt with anything"  Anders is a creepy loner that sinks into violence and madness over the years

I think I know who I'd rather have flirt with me

If Anders was like Capt Jack Harkness or something it would go over better, because at least he's a fun character.

[LPPrince]

Hah, DA:I would be infinitely better if it had a character with the personality and quirks of Capt Jack Harkness.

[Grieving Natashina]

I never watched Torchwood, so I had to look up who Jack was. May I get a general description of his personality? From some of the comments, he sounds fun.

[LPPrince]

A pansexual, charming, intelligent, outgoing, fun to be around, kisses-literally-everyone, wise-cracking, can't die thanks to Rose Tyler's bringing him back to life as The Bad Wolf, and oh screw it lemme get video-

Jack Harkness 20 Moments in Doctor Who

[Iakus]

SurelyForth wrote...

iakus wrote...

Isabela is a free-spirited party girl who has the personality that says "Flirt with anything"  Anders is a creepy loner that sinks into violence and madness over the years

I think I know who I'd rather have flirt with me

Treat Anders like a creepy loner and he won't flirt with you. Problem solved.

Problem is, my Warden can be a nice guy towards  Anders and not get creepy vibes from him.  Hawke is not so lucky

KaiserShep wrote...

If Anders was like Capt Jack Harkness or something it would go over better, because at least he's a fun character.

Well I don't think I'd personally care too much for a "Tom Cruise on too much caffeine" type-character (which is how I genrally saw Captain Jack), but I understand the point

[CybAnt1]

There was also the fact that many people(myself included) didn't get the impression from Anders in Awakening that he was into men as well as women, which probably made it even more out of left field.

*sigh* right ear only earring people .... 
http://www.urbandict...ht Earring Rule

[Iakus]

CybAnt1 wrote...

There was also the fact that many people(myself included) didn't get the impression from Anders in Awakening that he was into men as well as women, which probably made it even more out of left field.

*sigh* right ear only earring people .... 
http://www.urbandict...ht Earring Rule

I suppose his fondness for cats was supposed to be another clue?

[Grieving Natashina]

LPPrince wrote...

A pansexual, charming, intelligent, outgoing, fun to be around, kisses-literally-everyone, wise-cracking, can't die thanks to Rose Tyler's bringing him back to life as The Bad Wolf, and oh screw it lemme get video-

Jack Harkness 20 Moments in Doctor Who

Thanks!  He seems like a lot of fun, and I can support that. 

That was my one big complaint about the LIs in Origins and DA2: They mostly seemed too wrapped up in their personal issues to just relax every once in awhile.  The men had some pretty valid reasons, no doubt.  Still, it would have been nice having a male LI that didn't whine about slavery in some form or another all the damn time.  

@iakus: I'm not sure why that matters to you still so much.  As I said earlier, David stated that he probably won't take that route again.  He did listen to the fan feedback about Anders.  I'm not trying to be mean here, but maybe it's time to let it go and look towards the new game.  

I know how you feel about Anders.  What about the topic itself?

Modifié par Starsyn, 31 janvier 2014 - 11:38 .

[LPPrince]

Jack Harkness never whines.

Jack Harkness just says hello, which translates to every woman he greets swooning and The Doctor telling him to stop it.

Would fit right into DA and Bioware's sense of humor.

[CybAnt1]

i
I suppose his fondness for cats was supposed to be another clue?

It was for me. 

Just saying.

Bonus to Jack Harkness as a companion BTW ... outside of Miracle Day, he can't die. 

Plus in several million years he'll become the Face of Boe. 

Modifié par CybAnt1, 31 janvier 2014 - 11:42 .