554 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

daveliam wrote...

They've already stated that the characters in DA2 were bisexual, not playersexual.

I've seen otherwise on that part

[In Exile]

daveliam wrote...
I think you might have misunderstood my post.  I wasn't saying that a bisexual character shouldn't express their attractions.  I was saying that it's ridiculous to me that posters are demanding that all bisexual characters have to do so or they aren't "really bisexual" (just player-sexual). 

I've never understood this "talking about it with the PC" thing. Saying that people should immediately tell you what gender they prefer is like insisting people should immediately tell you what type of sex they like. 

It is weird, though, that in something like DA2 time you never run across stories of people's escapades, especially in cases where you're as ostensibly close with people as Hawke is with his band.

[LPPrince]

Ahh, gotcha. My apologies Dave.

In my opinion, player-sexual is a bad thing, but it doesn't have to be the same thing as something else.

I think a character can be bisexual and still be player-sexual. Bisexual not being a bad thing, player-sexual totally so(in my opinion of course).

Hell I think if a character was REALLY terribly written, they could be something like homosexual and still be playersexual.

Imagine a character written to be homosexual, say a girl. Lesbian, then. But if you play a male character, you can sway her over to your side.

Still gay, but playersexual. That would be eww to a hell of a high degree, though I don't believe Bioware would ever do something that mind numbingly bad.

[xAmilli0n]

Greylycantrope wrote...

I'm in favor of avoiding every romances being protag-sexual, it gets a little too close to harem territory for my liking.

This is pretty much my preference, but at the end of the day I just want a few LIs that have romance paths that work with their personalities, and make sense in the context of the story.  If this means getting rejected/turned down/backstabbed, cool.

I can ignore most other things if the romance can enhance the story/experience.

[LPPrince]

In Exile wrote...

daveliam wrote...
I think you might have misunderstood my post.  I wasn't saying that a bisexual character shouldn't express their attractions.  I was saying that it's ridiculous to me that posters are demanding that all bisexual characters have to do so or they aren't "really bisexual" (just player-sexual). 

I've never understood this "talking about it with the PC" thing. Saying that people should immediately tell you what gender they prefer is like insisting people should immediately tell you what type of sex they like. 

Doesn't have to be immediate. They can make it clear when they're ready. Perhaps a character is the submissive shy type. It might come out, but only after they build the confidence to do so. Then your character says, "It took you this long? Why hide it? Find strength in it" and they develop the courage to be who they are with pride.

Better yet, why rely on the PC to get it out of them? Why not have a character express it on their own and not give a damn what anyone thinks?

Mass 3-

Steve(Gay male)- Casually brings up he had a husband in the past, one he still cares for who passed away in an attack on the colony he was stationed on. (these sorts of things could do without the tragedy, lets be honest)

Samantha(Gay female)- Hints towards it with responding to EDI's voice, but if not evident enough, bring it to Shepard's attention during a pass Shepard initiates towards her, male or female.

It doesn't have to be immediate or delayed, it doesn't have to be screamed through a megaphone or whispered into an ear.

I just think it'd be nice to know our romantic interests trust us with sharing a part of who they are with us, rather than artificially hiding it.

[LPPrince]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

I'm in favor of avoiding every romances being protag-sexual, it gets a little too close to harem territory for my liking.

This is pretty much my preference, but at the end of the day I just want a few LIs that have romance paths that work with their personalities, and make sense in the context of the story.  If this means getting rejected/turned down/backstabbed, cool.

I can ignore most other things if the romance can enhance the story/experience.

I await the day I'm romancing a character in a Bioware game, I think he/she is fantastic and wonderful, and then I get smacked in the face with infidelity or I get caught in my own character's infidelity because I played a ******.

*gets kiwis thrown at me by fandom*

[In Exile]

LPPrince wrote...
Doesn't have to be immediate. They can make it clear when they're ready. Perhaps a character is the submissive shy type. It might come out, but only after they build the confidence to do so. Then your character says, "It took you this long? Why hide it? Find strength in it" and they develop the courage to be who they are with pride.

But sexual preference doesn't have to be about identity. It is IRL, but it needn't be like that in Thedas. 

[Asdrubael Vect]

i want the love interests to be like in ME

because we have 4 races and 4 kingdoms we need not less than 8 LI

[Pasquale1234]

LPPrince wrote...

I think because if someone is bisexual, it doesn't make them heterosexual or homosexual.

Yet someone who might define themselves as bisexual at some point in their lives might change that label somewhere down the road.  And that's all it is - a label intended to describe one's romantic attractions / affiliations, based on preponderance of evidence.

I dated a bisexual girl a few years ago. If she never told me she was into ladies as well as gents and I found out later, I'd wonder why she was keeping that from me.

Trust.

Its not a bad thing to be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, demisexual, transexual, etc etc(not saying anyone is saying that), but assuming a pansexual character shouldn't express the fact that gender and sex don't affect who they love, or a demisexual shouldn't express they require a romantic connection before they get the sexual tingles, at least to me seems a bit odd.

Someone shouldn't feel afraid to share a part of who they are with the one they love/fancy/have feelings for.

Perhaps IRL, but in a game we don't have time to get to know the entire history of all of the available companions.  The writers expose us to whatever parts of those characters seem most pertinent for their characterization and role in the story.  We don't get to know all of their favorite colors, foods, fabrics, or opinions about much of anything that isn't directly related to the events of the story at hand.

Sexual orientation is only as important as you choose to make it.

[LPPrince]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Sexual orientation is only as important as you choose to make it.

Then the fault lies with me(not ashamed to admit that). I made a long post about it I believe in this thread earlier, but I want the things in these games that have a basis in reality(people for example, rather than dragons or magic) to be as real as possible, so I can truly believe in them, and believe that they can exist in my own reality.

Perhaps I care too much. Very probable.

[Hellion Rex]

LPPrince wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Sexual orientation is only as important as you choose to make it.

Then the fault lies with me(not ashamed to admit that). I made a long post about it I believe in this thread earlier, but I want the things in these games that have a basis in reality(people for example, rather than dragons or magic) to be as real as possible, so I can truly believe in them, and believe that they can exist in my own reality.

Perhaps I care too much. Very probable.

There are certainly worse things to be fixated on. No worries.

[daveliam]

LPPrince wrote...

Doesn't have to be immediate. They can make it clear when they're ready. Perhaps a character is the submissive shy type. It might come out, but only after they build the confidence to do so. Then your character says, "It took you this long? Why hide it? Find strength in it" and they develop the courage to be who they are with pride.

Better yet, why rely on the PC to get it out of them? Why not have a character express it on their own and not give a damn what anyone thinks?

Mass 3-

Steve(Gay male)- Casually brings up he had a husband in the past, one he still cares for who passed away in an attack on the colony he was stationed on. (these sorts of things could do without the tragedy, lets be honest)

Samantha(Gay female)- Hints towards it with responding to EDI's voice, but if not evident enough, bring it to Shepard's attention during a pass Shepard initiates towards her, male or female.

It doesn't have to be immediate or delayed, it doesn't have to be screamed through a megaphone or whispered into an ear.

I just think it'd be nice to know our romantic interests trust us with sharing a part of who they are with us, rather than artificially hiding it.

I understand what you're in saying in general, but I just don't think it's as important as some people are saying.  I guess it hits home to me because I'm not "stereotypically gay" and I've had numerous people scold me (in good nature) for not outing myself to them.  For me, my sexual orientation isn't relevant to the conversation at hand, it's not going to come up.  It's not that I'm hiding it or that I'm ashamed of it.  It's just not relevant.  I'm married, so sometimes that makes it come up, but usually when I correct someone when they talk about my "wife". 

I guess my main thought is that sexuality is important to most people, but not everyone thinks that it needs to be a discussion point.  It's like saying that a heterosexual female character should have to talk about all of the types of men that she finds attractive in order to fully develop in the romance.  That's kind of silly and I think it holds true for bisexual characters too. 

I really liked how they addressed sexuality in ME 3.  Especially Kaidan, although I know some people dislike his s/s availability.  Never does Kaidan explicitly discuss his sexuality.  It's implied because he mentions a girl in ME 1 (although he never does state that he was sexually attracted to her).  He's just attracted to male Shepard and that's it.  He's attracted to him as a person and it doesn't matter if he's gay or bisexual.  That's just as realistic to me as a bisexual character like Zevran.

[daveliam]

LPPrince wrote...

Then the fault lies with me(not ashamed to admit that). I made a long post about it I believe in this thread earlier, but I want the things in these games that have a basis in reality(people for example, rather than dragons or magic) to be as real as possible, so I can truly believe in them, and believe that they can exist in my own reality.

Perhaps I care too much. Very probable.

Ah, I see that you posted this while I was crafting my LONG reply.  Sorry if my last post seems like it's beating a dead horse.

[Pasquale1234]

In Exile wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
Doesn't have to be immediate. They can make it clear when they're ready. Perhaps a character is the submissive shy type. It might come out, but only after they build the confidence to do so. Then your character says, "It took you this long? Why hide it? Find strength in it" and they develop the courage to be who they are with pride.

But sexual preference doesn't have to be about identity. It is IRL, but it needn't be like that in Thedas. 

Yes, and I suspect a lot of the reason has to do with gender expectations / social roles and condemnation, mostly religious.  Thedas has neither of those in play - genders are treated fairly equally, and we've seen no condemnation of sexuality - so there's really no reason to believe that orientation would contribute much to one's identity.

[KaiserShep]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Playersexual companions is the worst objectification of characters since Dead or Alive's boob physics. It is a shameful display of lazy character development from BioWare's side.
If BioWare wants their character to be available to both genders, then bloody well make them bisexual. Zevran and Lelianna was done correctly, since no matter the gender of the Warden, they displayed attraction towards both men and women.

This works with characters that are outwardly sexual, but more reserved characters, I'm not so sure. Like, imagine if Aveline was a bisexual character. Her reserved attitude makes being outwardly sexual seem pretty out of place. She's all duty this and duty that. I can't imagine being able to figure this out without really probing the character for information and building approval/friendship, and even then, it would likely only be toward the PC and not toward the gender opposite of that PC. The only reason you may figure it out for Fenris is because of the dialogue options that may be available, but the character himself never really makes it known unless you push him into it.

I always saw the playersexual character as just switching modes for the PC's gender, rather than being something that should necessarily be reflected in the character. This is a toy with a narrative attached, after all.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 05 février 2014 - 07:47 .

[Deventh]

Like DA2 definently! BI all the way! Let people choose what sex they want to romance.

[LPPrince]

daveliam wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Then the fault lies with me(not ashamed to admit that). I made a long post about it I believe in this thread earlier, but I want the things in these games that have a basis in reality(people for example, rather than dragons or magic) to be as real as possible, so I can truly believe in them, and believe that they can exist in my own reality.

Perhaps I care too much. Very probable.

Ah, I see that you posted this while I was crafting my LONG reply.  Sorry if my last post seems like it's beating a dead horse.

S'all good in the BSN hood.

[AresKeith]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
Doesn't have to be immediate. They can make it clear when they're ready. Perhaps a character is the submissive shy type. It might come out, but only after they build the confidence to do so. Then your character says, "It took you this long? Why hide it? Find strength in it" and they develop the courage to be who they are with pride.

But sexual preference doesn't have to be about identity. It is IRL, but it needn't be like that in Thedas. 

Yes, and I suspect a lot of the reason has to do with gender expectations / social roles and condemnation, mostly religious.  Thedas has neither of those in play - genders are treated fairly equally, and we've seen no condemnation of sexuality - so there's really no reason to believe that orientation would contribute much to one's identity.

Basically the same in ME, but the romanceable characters there basically displayed that they have a preference

[Han Yolo]

I want someone like Alistair. As in, someone who breaks your heart. That was neat. Totally didn't see it coming.
The Aveline thing was great as well.

[daveliam]

AresKeith wrote...

Basically the same in ME, but the romanceable characters there basically displayed that they have a preference

Well, yes and no. 

1.)  It is based on the future of our current society, so there will always be underlying assumptions about gender roles and sexuality.  Sure, it might be more "liberal" in the future, but it wouldn't negate the assumptions that already exist since many people actively construct their identitites around those assumptions.  In Thedas, those assumptions might never have existed (and we have no evidence to suggest that they have), so it's slightly different.

2.)  Not all of the characters did express their sexuality.  See my earlier post about Kaidan.  He never states that he's bisexual.  I've never romanced him as a female, but I would bet my house and car that he never addresses same sex attraction to a FemShep.  Also, does Tali ever explictly state that she's hetero?  Or do we just assume it because she is only romanceable to male characters.  I guess my point is that sexuality is more than actions.  Maybe Tali just is attracted to strong males, but more submissive females and that's why she's only interested in MaleShep and not FemShep (I know, that's a stretch, but I'm just trying to point out that there might be more to a person's attraction than gender).

[daveliam]

LPPrince wrote...

S'all good in the BSN hood.

So rare these days.  It's a pleasure when it happens!

[BraveVesperia]

Hey biphobes, please answer a question?

Explain to me what makes Alistair and Morrigan NOT 'playersexual'? Alistair's only requirement is that the Warden has a vagina, Morrigan's only requirement is that he has a penis. But hey, that's believable, right? It's not like personality, behaviour, appearance, morals, actions, background have anything to do with relationships at all. Just which genitals you have.

[Chanda]

rasloveszev wrote...

 DAO: 1 straight male, 1 straight female, 1 bi male, 1 bi female
DA2: 2 bi males and 2 bi females

Would you want more love interests? (Even though they might not do that)

Would you want the sex scenes back?

For me, I liked the way the romances were set up in DAO better than the romances in DA2. The romances seemed more authentic because you were dealing with someone who was actually straight and was only attracted to women, or someone who was actually bi-sexual and had to explain that to you (like the conversation with Zevran, which I appreciated because he seemed deeper to me in that aspect).

Having said that, I think it's only fair to add two more LI's to the mix, one homosexual male, and one homosexual female. Why? Because it's not fair that there are two characters of either gender for the straight crowd, and only one character of either gender for the bi-sexual/gay crowd.

So that answers question two, I guess. But also, it would add to the game in having more playthroughs as the other gender in order to experience the homosexual relationship in the game.

And I liked the sex scenes. It showed the intimacy between the player character and the love interest. If they added more hugging, cuddling, kissing into the game during other times, I'd say that would cover the intimacy between the player character and the LI, and I'd be fine with a fade to black, or something of that nature.

[AresKeith]

BraveVesperia wrote...

Hey biphobes, please answer a question?

Explain to me what makes Alistair and Morrigan NOT 'playersexual'? Alistair's only requirement is that the Warden has a vagina, Morrigan's only requirement is that he has a penis. But hey, that's believable, right? It's not like personality, behaviour, appearance, morals, actions, background have anything to do with relationships at all. Just which genitals you have.

Please don't start that, this thread is going really tame for the most part

[spirosz]

"Biphobes" rofl.

Please continue.