554 réponses à ce sujet

[The_11thDoctor]

DAO had more to them to do, but honestly , Im praying to the maker they do something that will blow both out the water and have more to do while hanging out with them, than the Protagonist of Persona while building Social Links... Special mission where you party up with only them to complete some task and get to know them better, moments you can just walk up to them and talk about something at random, Date Missions where you need to fight a certain way, then say the right things to get your Love Levels up with you LI in non combat situations, etc. They need to expand on them since they are in the game. Why go half way?

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

I liked the way the love interest was handled in DAO. I liked all of my companions well enough in DA2 just didn't like the way the romances came about. Really enjoyed being able to walk up to them and just talk or ask for a kiss in DAO. In DA2 you had to wait until the LI had something to say. I found it boring actually waiting on them or getting their approval up for them to say something, this took away from the immersion for me.

[LordJared88]

I honestly don't care about this feature. I ignored it in the first two games and plan to ignore in this one as well. I'm comfortable with the level of nerd I already am. I don't need to take it to the next level by having an in-game relationship with an AI character.

[KaiserShep]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I liked the way the love interest was handled in DAO. I liked all of my companions well enough in DA2 just didn't like the way the romances came about. Really enjoyed being able to walk up to them and just talk or ask for a kiss in DAO. In DA2 you had to wait until the LI had something to say. I found it boring actually waiting on them or getting their approval up for them to say something, this took away from the immersion for me.

Yeah, I rather liked being able to stop and chat wherever, though part of me is glad that you couldn't do it just anywhere. Sometimes it was easy to accidentally select a team member by accident when combat was over and initiate a conversation. I would have preferred for DA2 to have the ability to simply chat whenever in the companion's home base without it being part of any quest, though this may require more content so they don't run out of things to say too quickly, though DA:O did handle this fairly well by locking certain things out based on the approval level. I'd like to see something like that return.

[durasteel]

carlibahamut wrote...

i felt closer to the companions in dao than in da2. i can't quite put my finger on why exactly, but i just did.

I think the fact that everyone came together at the camp in Origins promoted "bonding."

[Andrew Lucas]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I liked the way the love interest was handled in DAO. I liked all of my companions well enough in DA2 just didn't like the way the romances came about. Really enjoyed being able to walk up to them and just talk or ask for a kiss in DAO. In DA2 you had to wait until the LI had something to say. I found it boring actually waiting on them or getting their approval up for them to say something, this took away from the immersion for me.

This.

[durasteel]

LordJared88 wrote...
I honestly don't care about this feature. I ignored it in the first two games and plan to ignore in this one as well. I'm comfortable with the level of nerd I already am. I don't need to take it to the next level by having an in-game relationship with an AI character.

It's kind of asinine to suggest that pursuing a romance plot line in a BioWare game kicks your "nerd level" up a notch. Romance is a fundamental part of life, and has a narrative power that is not easily replaced. The conflicted feelings Malcom Reynolds has for Inara Serra give you insight into his character that few other story elements could. Bruce Wayne's womanizing and sometimes frustrated romantic attachments add depth and texture to Batman narratives. One of the most dangerous things anyone can do in the Seven Kingdoms is to fall in love.

The function of companions in BioWare games is to provide perspective upon the player's character. Your feelings about your avatar are informed by how these other characters feel about it, relative to your feelings about them. This provides the most satisfying progression in the game, much more visceral than stats or larger shoulder armor. Upgrading your primary weapon from the starting [Semi-Sharp Stick] to the [Purple Sword of Large Numbers] that you use on the end boss is meta-gaming, really--you have to step back from the narrative to get a sense of the numerical benefit of your gear progression. By contrast, progression in a companion story is immediate to the narrative, visceral in its impact, and much more satisfying. Sten goes from open scorn and indifference to calling you a brother, Garrus begins as someone who comes along because he can't bear to stay on the Citadel and becomes your most trusted, capable, and loyal lieutenant. These characters--all your companions, to one degree or another--hold a mirror up in which you, the player, can glimpse the character your'e playing. When you care about them, and they care about your character, then you cannot help but to care about that character, too. It provides you with context in which to understand who Shepard, the Warden, or Hawke are.

Nothing helps to define a character more than who that character loves, and who loves that character. The romantic element of a character's story--happy or unhappy--provides the most direct access to its motivations you can get. Resolution of romantic plot threads also has the potential to offer the most statisfying measure of success in a story: while it was great to save the galaxy by beating Malak into a quivering mass and blowing up the Star Forge, I already felt indestructable--that winning was a foregone conclusion--because I had redeemed Bastila and gotten the "Nothing could make me feel safer than to be loved by you" line. Because of the development of Bastila's character (and the quality of the voice acting) when she expressed her conviction that my Revan was going to win, I believed her on a visceral, emotional level. Similarly, the redemptive dark side Carth romantic ending for a female PC is a perfect example of a "bittersweet" type of ending that Mass Effect 3 tried to achieve, with epic failure.

Romantic stories are one of the ways BioWare makes its characters come to life, so that players feel as much for them as readers do for their favorite characters in novels. Pursuing and enjoying those story threads doesn't make you a bigger nerd at all. Being so insecure and awkward that these story elements can creep you out, however... does.

Modifié par durasteel, 07 février 2014 - 02:55 .

[Sugarjaye]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Sugarjaye wrote...

I just want a sexy, charming guy without too many issues.

In real life, they are the ones you want to bring home to your parents, but in games, they tend to be boring due to the style of story-telling in game which demand twists and/or drama. Kaidan seems to be that guy, but most gals abandon him in favor of the werebird, Garrus. 

Yeah, I never really liked Kaiden.
But, I get where your coming from. Maybe charming wasn't the right word for it, maybe 'sweet-talker' is a better word. Hmmmm

[Sugarjaye]

durasteel wrote...

LordJared88 wrote...
I honestly don't care about this feature. I ignored it in the first two games and plan to ignore in this one as well. I'm comfortable with the level of nerd I already am. I don't need to take it to the next level by having an in-game relationship with an AI character.

It's kind of asinine to suggest that pursuing a romance plot line in a BioWare game kicks your "nerd level" up a notch. Romance is a fundamental part of life, and has a narrative power that is not easily replaced. The conflicted feelings Malcom Reynolds has for Inara Serra give you insight into his character that few other story elements could. Bruce Wayne's womanizing and sometimes frustrated romantic attachments add depth and texture to Batman narratives. One of the most dangerous things anyone can do in the Seven Kingdoms is to fall in love.

The function of companions in BioWare games is to provide perspective upon the player's character. Your feelings about your avatar are informed by how these other characters feel about it, relative to your feelings about them. This provides the most satisfying progression in the game, much more visceral than stats or larger shoulder armor. Upgrading your primary weapon from the starting [Semi-Sharp Stick] to the [Purple Sword of Large Numbers] that you use on the end boss is meta-gaming, really--you have to step back from the narrative to get a sense of the numerical benefit of your gear progression. By contrast, progression in a companion story is immediate to the narrative, visceral in its impact, and much more satisfying. Sten goes from open scorn and indifference to calling you a brother, Garrus begins as someone who comes along because he can't bear to stay on the Citadel and becomes your most trusted, capable, and loyal lieutenant. These characters--all your companions, to one degree or another--hold a mirror up in which you, the player, can glimpse the character your'e playing. When you care about them, and they care about your character, then you cannot help but to care about that character, too. It provides you with context in which to understand who Shepard, the Warden, or Hawke are.

Nothing helps to define a character more than who that character loves, and who loves that character. The romantic element of a character's story--happy or unhappy--provides the most direct access to its motivations you can get. Resolution of romantic plot threads also has the potential to offer the most statisfying measure of success in a story: while it was great to save the galaxy by beating Malak into a quivering mass and blowing up the Star Forge, I already felt indestructable--that winning was a foregone conclusion--because I had redeemed Bastila and gotten the "Nothing could make me feel safer than to be loved by you" line. Because of the development of Bastila's character (and the quality of the voice acting) when she expressed her conviction that my Revan was going to win, I believed her on a visceral, emotional level. Similarly, the redemptive dark side Carth romantic ending for a female PC is a perfect example of a "bittersweet" type of ending that Mass Effect 3 tried to achieve, with epic failure.

Romantic stories are one of the ways BioWare makes its characters come to life, so that players feel as much for them as readers do for their favorite characters in novels. Pursuing and enjoying those story threads doesn't make you a bigger nerd at all. Being so insecure and awkward that these story elements can creep you out, however... does.

Very well said. Completely agree.

[OMGsideboob]

superdeathdealer14 wrote...


In other words yes I prefer Origins.

LOL

[KaiserShep]

durasteel wrote...

LordJared88 wrote...
I honestly don't care about this feature. I ignored it in the first two games and plan to ignore in this one as well. I'm comfortable with the level of nerd I already am. I don't need to take it to the next level by having an in-game relationship with an AI character.

It's kind of asinine to suggest that pursuing a romance plot line in a BioWare game kicks your "nerd level" up a notch. Romance is a fundamental part of life, and has a narrative power that is not easily replaced. The conflicted feelings Malcom Reynolds has for Inara Serra give you insight into his character that few other story elements could. Bruce Wayne's womanizing and sometimes frustrated romantic attachments add depth and texture to Batman narratives. One of the most dangerous things anyone can do in the Seven Kingdoms is to fall in love.

The function of companions in BioWare games is to provide perspective upon the player's character. Your feelings about your avatar are informed by how these other characters feel about it, relative to your feelings about them. This provides the most satisfying progression in the game, much more visceral than stats or larger shoulder armor. Upgrading your primary weapon from the starting [Semi-Sharp Stick] to the [Purple Sword of Large Numbers] that you use on the end boss is meta-gaming, really--you have to step back from the narrative to get a sense of the numerical benefit of your gear progression. By contrast, progression in a companion story is immediate to the narrative, visceral in its impact, and much more satisfying. Sten goes from open scorn and indifference to calling you a brother, Garrus begins as someone who comes along because he can't bear to stay on the Citadel and becomes your most trusted, capable, and loyal lieutenant. These characters--all your companions, to one degree or another--hold a mirror up in which you, the player, can glimpse the character your'e playing. When you care about them, and they care about your character, then you cannot help but to care about that character, too. It provides you with context in which to understand who Shepard, the Warden, or Hawke are.

Nothing helps to define a character more than who that character loves, and who loves that character. The romantic element of a character's story--happy or unhappy--provides the most direct access to its motivations you can get. Resolution of romantic plot threads also has the potential to offer the most statisfying measure of success in a story: while it was great to save the galaxy by beating Malak into a quivering mass and blowing up the Star Forge, I already felt indestructable--that winning was a foregone conclusion--because I had redeemed Bastila and gotten the "Nothing could make me feel safer than to be loved by you" line. Because of the development of Bastila's character (and the quality of the voice acting) when she expressed her conviction that my Revan was going to win, I believed her on a visceral, emotional level. Similarly, the redemptive dark side Carth romantic ending for a female PC is a perfect example of a "bittersweet" type of ending that Mass Effect 3 tried to achieve, with epic failure.

Romantic stories are one of the ways BioWare makes its characters come to life, so that players feel as much for them as readers do for their favorite characters in novels. Pursuing and enjoying those story threads doesn't make you a bigger nerd at all. Being so insecure and awkward that these story elements can creep you out, however... does.

I like you, and would gladly subscribe to your newsletter.

[budzai]

durasteel wrote...

LordJared88 wrote...
I honestly don't care about this feature. I ignored it in the first two games and plan to ignore in this one as well. I'm comfortable with the level of nerd I already am. I don't need to take it to the next level by having an in-game relationship with an AI character.

It's kind of asinine to suggest that pursuing a romance plot line in a BioWare game kicks your "nerd level" up a notch. Romance is a fundamental part of life, and has a narrative power that is not easily replaced. The conflicted feelings Malcom Reynolds has for Inara Serra give you insight into his character that few other story elements could. Bruce Wayne's womanizing and sometimes frustrated romantic attachments add depth and texture to Batman narratives. One of the most dangerous things anyone can do in the Seven Kingdoms is to fall in love.

The function of companions in BioWare games is to provide perspective upon the player's character. Your feelings about your avatar are informed by how these other characters feel about it, relative to your feelings about them. This provides the most satisfying progression in the game, much more visceral than stats or larger shoulder armor. Upgrading your primary weapon from the starting [Semi-Sharp Stick] to the [Purple Sword of Large Numbers] that you use on the end boss is meta-gaming, really--you have to step back from the narrative to get a sense of the numerical benefit of your gear progression. By contrast, progression in a companion story is immediate to the narrative, visceral in its impact, and much more satisfying. Sten goes from open scorn and indifference to calling you a brother, Garrus begins as someone who comes along because he can't bear to stay on the Citadel and becomes your most trusted, capable, and loyal lieutenant. These characters--all your companions, to one degree or another--hold a mirror up in which you, the player, can glimpse the character your'e playing. When you care about them, and they care about your character, then you cannot help but to care about that character, too. It provides you with context in which to understand who Shepard, the Warden, or Hawke are.

Nothing helps to define a character more than who that character loves, and who loves that character. The romantic element of a character's story--happy or unhappy--provides the most direct access to its motivations you can get. Resolution of romantic plot threads also has the potential to offer the most statisfying measure of success in a story: while it was great to save the galaxy by beating Malak into a quivering mass and blowing up the Star Forge, I already felt indestructable--that winning was a foregone conclusion--because I had redeemed Bastila and gotten the "Nothing could make me feel safer than to be loved by you" line. Because of the development of Bastila's character (and the quality of the voice acting) when she expressed her conviction that my Revan was going to win, I believed her on a visceral, emotional level. Similarly, the redemptive dark side Carth romantic ending for a female PC is a perfect example of a "bittersweet" type of ending that Mass Effect 3 tried to achieve, with epic failure.

Romantic stories are one of the ways BioWare makes its characters come to life, so that players feel as much for them as readers do for their favorite characters in novels. Pursuing and enjoying those story threads doesn't make you a bigger nerd at all. Being so insecure and awkward that these story elements can creep you out, however... does.

For me kill bastilla was more satisfying....
Really Bioware should make a romance simulator... it would be more profitable.

[CybAnt1]

Romance has always been optional in every Bioware game since BG2.

It's there if you want to pursue it, and there to ignore too if you want not to be bothered.

Bioware has gotten a 'rep' for doing it better than some other companies, and far be it from me to tackle that debate.

It remains in all their games, because clearly there are some people who want it. Of all (real world) genders, orientations, marital statuses, and social lives.

[schalafi]

I think Bioware forum users have created a new word..."romanceable", because there is no such word in the dictionary. However it works fine here! ;-)

[In Exile]

durasteel wrote...
It's kind of asinine to suggest that pursuing a romance plot line in a BioWare game kicks your "nerd level" up a notch. Romance is a fundamental part of life, and has a narrative power that is not easily replaced. The conflicted feelings Malcom Reynolds has for Inara Serra give you insight into his character that few other story elements could. Bruce Wayne's womanizing and sometimes frustrated romantic attachments add depth and texture to Batman narratives. One of the most dangerous things anyone can do in the Seven Kingdoms is to fall in love.

The thing is that romantic love is used to explore interesting things in the stories that you mention. Take Batman: his romantic entanglements are generally all sorts of messed up, and reflect the fundamental sort of ball of crazy that Batman/Bruce Wayne actually is as a person. 

A better example is Tyrion/Shae: it's a messed up one-sided love from Tyrion that's all about projecting the emotional trauma he suffered at his father's hands. Or Cersei/Jaime. 

Dragon Age plays romance way too straight, and so it's not really used in an interesting narrative way. It's like a romance in a James Bond movie: just about protagonist empowerment. That's not a bad thing, IMO, just not using it for a narrative purpose. 

[CybAnt1]

It can become a plot device. They just don't seem to have the interest in doing it lately.

In BG2, your romancee can be slain by the vampires, and then you have to take them and revive them at the Temple of Amunator. Sort of a real "proving your love" situation. Of course, they could just do this to any companion, but it's more poignant to do to "the one you love".

That's part of the nostalgia ... plot moments with poignancy. And difficulty; if you hadn't cleansed the Temple of Amunator before that happened, you had to do that first.

[KaiserShep]

It's easier to produce romances like Tyrion's and Batman's in fiction because they're fixed characters. In a choice-based game, I imagine it would be a great deal more difficult, because you can't project the types of feelings those characters may have toward their love interest on the player without causing frustration, which sucks the fun out of it.

[durasteel]

budzai wrote...
For me kill bastilla was more satisfying....
Really Bioware should make a romance simulator... it would be more profitable.

It wouldn't work. A romance simulator would be missing the element of shared triumph and tragedy that is the basis for development of comapnion relationships. Just like your friendship with Garrus is based on staring death in the face and coming out with battle scars on the other side, the romances are progressed most when your character is at a moment of doubt or fear and, like the Dylan song, "Come in" she says, "I'll give you shelter from the storm."

BioWare romances, as they are written, only work in the context of the larger narrative. They add seasoning and spice, but by themselves would be as satisfying as chewing on a cinnamon stick.

[CybAnt1]

BioWare romances, as they are written, only work in the context of the larger narrative. They add seasoning and spice, but by themselves would be as satisfying as chewing on a cinnamon stick.

Ding Ding Ding Ding, Give this guy a CEEEE-GAR. 

(P.S. this is the general trend as to how romance works within fantasy stories, as a side element. There is a reason why a lot of the earliest medieval fantasy legends, like about Arthur and the Grail, are called "Romances". Romanticism is about more than human love, but still needs doses of it in the story.)

[EggsAreGood]

I prefer the DA2 way of doing things, personally.

Modifié par EggsAreGood, 07 février 2014 - 06:06 .

[existing_acc]

I enjoyed both DA:O and DA2 versions but I do think this was largely because I believed each character as being what they were. I would hate for DA:I to have fully bisexual characters just for the sake of it, but if it fits each of the characters, then by all means.

As much as I prefer the dynamics of romance in DA:O, I felt Mass Effect 3 handled the sexuality ratio best. The fact that there wasn't an even ratio of male and female options speaks volumes. The sexuality of each character was simply what was right for that character. It was also a bonus that you could flirt with characters (as with Avenline in DA2) who would reject or ignore your advances based on circumstance of sexuality (Mordin as an asexual was also a nice touch in this regard.

Back to Thedas, the thing that makes me respect the Bioware's attitude so far is a very simple comment from Zevran when romanced by a male Warden, where he states that he actually prefers women (slender women, I believe), which beautifully and accurately reflects how sexuality isn't simply a group of labels but a complex spectrum. And again, it was real for the character. And that's what ultimately matters.

DA:O also gets bonus points for Leliana because the initial conversation varies depending on your gender, showing that while is attracted to both, it is in different ways.

[daveliam]

existing_acc wrote...


Back to Thedas, the thing that makes me respect the Bioware's attitude so far is a very simple comment from Zevran when romanced by a male Warden, where he states that he actually prefers women (slender women, I believe), which beautifully and accurately reflects how sexuality isn't simply a group of labels but a complex spectrum. And again, it was real for the character. And that's what ultimately matters.

While I get appreciate how Zevran's statements on this add a unique layer to his personality, the issue that I had with this was that it essentially meant that the only m/m love interest didn't even prefer guys.  It took away from the romance for me because a.)  he was sexually promiscuous; b.) clearly preferred women; and c.) he was the only option that I had, which was completely out of character for my warden.  It made me feel as if he was really only going to stay with my warden until a pretty girl came along.  It's the main reason why I think the DA: O LI's were a fail for me.  At least in DA 2 or ME 3 gave me an option so I wasn't stuck with a choice between someone I didn't like or nothing.

Modifié par daveliam, 08 février 2014 - 01:02 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Dragon Age plays romance way too straight, and so it's not really used in an interesting narrative way. It's like a romance in a James Bond movie: just about protagonist empowerment. That's not a bad thing, IMO, just not using it for a narrative purpose.

I would argue that it's that lack of narrative purpose that gives the player freedom to use the romance within his own narrative construction.

[Naesaki]

daveliam wrote...

At least in DA 2 or ME 3 gave me an option so I wasn't stuck with a choice between someone I didn't like or nothing.

I was really happy when they brought in Steve as a love interest in ME3, really made the game for me.

[Major Crackhead]

Why can't we have something awesome, like a Female Dwarf only Varric romance?

The male version is like a bromance.