142 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

hhh89 wrote...

@LDS Darth Revan: Well, it's not like they could've cut the consequences of the SG completely. They probably believe it was better than showing people dying with the games.

Oh, I know. I'm just laughing at the irony that making the Shadow Games 'lighter' for the younger viewers, they put a concept that if you think about it is actually a lot darker. Death is a lot more merciful than sealing a soul for eternity.

[HiroVoid]

Wothen wrote...

Berserk is the definition of Dark Fantasy for me
Dark Souls/Demon Souls definitely is Dark Fantasy too
Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) ....hmmm perhaps, lighter dark fantasy setting

Attack on Titan's shounen which means it focuses on a younger demographic, so I'd say that fits.  I already dislike labels though, so just 'dark fantasy' still works.  It just simply doesn't reach Berserk levels.  Haven't read it, but I've heard Devilman and Devilwoman are pretty high up there as well.  Of course, that's made by Go Nagai who has some of the best monster desigins in the entire fictional world.

[Wothen]

HiroVoid wrote...

Wothen wrote...

Berserk is the definition of Dark Fantasy for me
Dark Souls/Demon Souls definitely is Dark Fantasy too
Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) ....hmmm perhaps, lighter dark fantasy setting

Attack on Titan's shounen which means it focuses on a younger demographic, so I'd say that fits.  I already dislike labels though, so just 'dark fantasy' still works.  It just simply doesn't reach Berserk levels.  Haven't read it, but I've heard Devilman and Devilwoman are pretty high up there as well.  Of course, that's made by Go Nagai who has some of the best monster desigins in the entire fictional world.

I wonder why japanese are so good (or so keen) on doing dark settings
You should read Berserk, its a bloody masterpiece

Modifié par Wothen, 27 janvier 2014 - 09:02 .

[The Elder King]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@LDS Darth Revan: Well, it's not like they could've cut the consequences of the SG completely. They probably believe it was better than showing people dying with the games.

Oh, I know. I'm just laughing at the irony that making the Shadow Games 'lighter' for the younger viewers, they put a concept that if you think about it is actually a lot darker. Death is a lot more merciful than sealing a soul for eternity.

I agree, though I think that from a child's perspective death might be worse. 

[HiroVoid]

Wothen wrote...
Berserk is the definition of Dark Fantasy for me
Dark Souls/Demon Souls definitely is Dark Fantasy too
Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) ....hmmm perhaps, lighter dark fantasy setting

But yes, berserk do spoil your senses when its about determining this kinda of stuff 

For example, the witcher universe is supposed to be dark fantasy but I dont consider it that dark

I'd say the general setting for the Witcher is dark, but I can see what you mean since the majority of the time in the games, most of the crap that happens occurs to people who you usually aren't too close with meaning Geralt doesn't really deal with the consequences of choices he makes severely affecting someone he knows as much as it may affect the citizens of a town, country, etc.

[HiroVoid]

Wothen wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Wothen wrote...

Berserk is the definition of Dark Fantasy for me
Dark Souls/Demon Souls definitely is Dark Fantasy too
Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) ....hmmm perhaps, lighter dark fantasy setting

Attack on Titan's shounen which means it focuses on a younger demographic, so I'd say that fits.  I already dislike labels though, so just 'dark fantasy' still works.  It just simply doesn't reach Berserk levels.  Haven't read it, but I've heard Devilman and Devilwoman are pretty high up there as well.  Of course, that's made by Go Nagai who has some of the best monster desigins in the entire fictional world.

I wonder why japanese are so good (or so keen) on doing dark settings
You should read Berserk, its a bloody masterpiece

I started reading Berserk around 5-6 years ago, so I think I started when it ended around the arc where they meet the witches.  I'm more interested in getting around to reading Nausicca(manga) at some point.

[Wothen]

HiroVoid wrote...

Wothen wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Wothen wrote...

Berserk is the definition of Dark Fantasy for me
Dark Souls/Demon Souls definitely is Dark Fantasy too
Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) ....hmmm perhaps, lighter dark fantasy setting

Attack on Titan's shounen which means it focuses on a younger demographic, so I'd say that fits.  I already dislike labels though, so just 'dark fantasy' still works.  It just simply doesn't reach Berserk levels.  Haven't read it, but I've heard Devilman and Devilwoman are pretty high up there as well.  Of course, that's made by Go Nagai who has some of the best monster desigins in the entire fictional world.

I wonder why japanese are so good (or so keen) on doing dark settings
You should read Berserk, its a bloody masterpiece

I started reading Berserk around 5-6 years ago, so I think I started when it ended around the arc where they meet the witches.  I'm more interested in getting around to reading Nausicca(manga) at some point.

Well you will be glad to know that it haven't progressed that much because of Miura's breaks 
Right now the last time I read berserker was in 2012 when the last chapter got released
Heres hoping he resumes his work this year tho

[Hanako Ikezawa]

hhh89 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@LDS Darth Revan: Well, it's not like they could've cut the consequences of the SG completely. They probably believe it was better than showing people dying with the games.

Oh, I know. I'm just laughing at the irony that making the Shadow Games 'lighter' for the younger viewers, they put a concept that if you think about it is actually a lot darker. Death is a lot more merciful than sealing a soul for eternity.

I agree, though I think that from a child's perspective death might be worse. 

Yep. Most children don't grasp the concept of a soul being trapped forever, especially since the heroes always save them.

[HiroVoid]

Wothen wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Wothen wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Wothen wrote...

Berserk is the definition of Dark Fantasy for me
Dark Souls/Demon Souls definitely is Dark Fantasy too
Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) ....hmmm perhaps, lighter dark fantasy setting

Attack on Titan's shounen which means it focuses on a younger demographic, so I'd say that fits.  I already dislike labels though, so just 'dark fantasy' still works.  It just simply doesn't reach Berserk levels.  Haven't read it, but I've heard Devilman and Devilwoman are pretty high up there as well.  Of course, that's made by Go Nagai who has some of the best monster desigins in the entire fictional world.

I wonder why japanese are so good (or so keen) on doing dark settings
You should read Berserk, its a bloody masterpiece

I started reading Berserk around 5-6 years ago, so I think I started when it ended around the arc where they meet the witches.  I'm more interested in getting around to reading Nausicca(manga) at some point.

Well you will be glad to know that it haven't progressed that much because of Miura's breaks 
Right now the last time I read berserker was in 2012 when the last chapter got released
Heres hoping he resumes his work this year tho

I've kept up with his work, but at the moment, he's actually taking a break from Berserk and working on another short manga (can't remember the name), so....it'll probably be a good bit.  Don't really mind too much with Berserk since the artwork shows he obviously works on it consistently though.  I'm more worried about him finishing Berserk before age gets him since Berserk started in the late 80s.

[Darth Death]

It certainly possesses dark elements, but are moderated like congregated fireflies, conducting themselves against the night's darkness. Is the DA series a dark fantasy? Certainly; with a lamp stand nearby.

[Seanomatic]

No. I'm not saying it's a negative but it isn't gritty or adult enough in my opinion to qualify as a dark fantasy, too light humoured at times as well. But as I said I don't necessarily consider that to be a detractor from the series

[ghostzodd]

You cannot compare this to Berserk. Berserk is G.O.A.T:wizard:. Sadly I think Berserk is going to go the way of Guin Saga, which is kinda funny since Miura said it was one of his influences for berserk, oh the irony

Modifié par ghostzodd, 27 janvier 2014 - 10:07 .

[Ieldra]

For me, horror elements are important but the defining element of a dark story is that the good can't prevail without compromising their morality, or there is no unambiguously good choice at all. Mass Effect turned out unexpectedly dark in the last chapter. Both DA games have strong dark elements as well:

*The final choice in both games. DA2: either genocide or "helping dangerous people run amok". DAO: die, make a friend or LI die, or do the Dark Ritual. That I personally don't see the ritual as that dark doesn't count.
*The situation of the mages. Become tranquil or risk demonic possession.
*Bhelen vs Harrowmont: letting the upright traditionalist win is a recipe for disaster. That would *never* happen in standard "light" fantasy. Here, the tradition is bad and the traditionalist weak. Orzammar does really need a hard hand, and some of its defining traditions need to be squashed.
*Presentation of the theme "individualism vs. collectivism". Both defining cultures are bad (Tevinter and the qunari).
*Crapsack world: is there a place you would want to live on Thedas?
*Horror elements: abominations. You can become one without a choice. Or with a choice.
*Horror elements: broodmothers.
*Horror elements: dreamers. They can kill you in your sleep from thousands of miles away. Or give you nightmares. Or both.

So yeah, DA is dark fantasy. It is also high fantasy because of its epic scope and because it takes place completely in a secondary world.

Edit:
Some characters also represent dark themes, though they're often (and much to my annoyance) downplayed:

Fenris: "kill all mages", his history.
Anders: "There can be no compromise"
Merrill: blood magic
Leandra: body horror

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 janvier 2014 - 10:58 .

[Jaeger]

I agree with the poster above.
Plus, I very much prefer the dark elements in Dragon Age series, where they're more than once IMPLIED, to the in your face "darkness" in other games.

"Lookie here, here's a murder. Cool, no? But wait, here's some brutal mutilation and rape. Oh, and have a nude sex scene as a dessert!". That's not dark, it's childish.

[Ieldra]

I would also like to stress this: a good dark story doesn't necessarily make the player feel bad. Ideally, it makes the player think and make a choice, feeling "ok the world isn't perfect and maybe this will come back to haunt me but I think I can live with this." It *can* be depressing, but most people don't like that and it needn't be. In the best cases, dark is poignant with all the different meanings of that term at the same time.

Think of DAO's endgame choice. You can:
(1) Die. That's bad. 
(2) Have a friend or LI die in your place.
(3) Have an enemy die in your place, but lose a friend.
(4) Do a ritual with unknown consequences.

None of these choices is unambiguously good, but almost all players can find an outcome they can live with and get some emotional closure from. DAO did the dark choices right, and DA2 did them right at least in basic design. They were only compromised by the behaviour of their representatives, and because the equally dark and thus appropriate option "just walk away" was missing.

And then there is ME3, where a whopping 97% of a set of 80000 players found the (original) outcomes depressing, outcomes designed to be "uplifting". A biased sample of course, but that figure is still impressive. ME3 failed with its dark choices. Why? Hard to say, but one aspect was that the previous games weren't dark, and another, that the final choice, unlike the choice of both DAs, wasn't a natural outgrowth of the plot.

[DRTJR]

I'd say a definite maybe. Compared to the works of Berserk and Warhammer Fantasy, Dragon age seems sunny. But Dragon age is not without its moments in the abyss, from the Broodmothers( still creeps me out) or Frankenstein's Momster.

[EmperorSahlertz]

DA certainly have dark fantasy elemetns to it. It might not be AS dark as say Warhammer, but just because there are pieces of fiction that are darker than DA does not mean that DA isn't dark. Just that DA isn't as dark as these particular pieces of fiction.

[Navasha]

DA doesn't attempt to go to the extreme of any one spectrum. There are elements of dark fantasy, high fantasy, and a couple other genres mixed into (I believe) a near perfect combination.

Trying to push it too far into a single category just isolates and limits your audience.

[slimgrin]

DA is high fantasy.

[The Hierophant]

Berserk, Shingeki no Kyojin, Devilman/woman?

You guys have good taste.

on topic, DAO has some elements of dark fantasy but it's overall tone and themes are a mixture of heroic and high fantasy too. It's like a fantasy cocktail. 

DA2 on the other hand is a sitcom fantasy.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 27 janvier 2014 - 02:45 .

[Celtic Latino]

I'd say yes.

-The hero/heroine rarely gets a happy ending without a price (even riding off into the sunset with your LI means you, or someone else, had to do a very dark ritual).
-People are more likely to get killed than get hauled off to prison (most instances in Origins/DA2 require you to kill the bad guy rather than have him/her imprisoned).
-The setting itself ts a world where there's consistent, constant conflict (right after the Blight there's the Templar-Mage War plus the Veil Tear on top of that).
-The Grey Wardens...not exactly your Jedi Order. Killing those who know too much, drinking blood that will poison you, render you nearly infertile and shorten your lifespan significantly (that is, if it doesn't kill you).
-LIs aren't exactly your traditional knights in shining armor and heroic do-gooders. You have a witch with her own agenda (Morrigan), a religious agent with a shady past of assassination and manipulation (Leliana), a pirate who is as likely to betray you as she is to cheat (Isabela), a blood mage who damns her entire clan for history (Merrill), a manipulative magical terrorist who uses your emotions to achieve his personal agenda (Anders), a sociopathic assassin who takes pleasure where he can find it (Zevran), a vicious yandere (Fenris)...and then there's Alistair and Sebastian...one who is still a Grey Warden and illegitimate heir and the other who is chaste. None seems to be a traditional love story lol.

[mikeymoonshine]

Um well it certainly has allot of Dark Fantasy elements, sometimes very dark but not on the whole no.

[Zack_Nero]

I don't think it is as dark as it wants to be, however, I do believe that they are getting closer to making it a darker place. Or at least a gloomy place.

[Vort3xX]

No it feels like a kids game in a paradise where everythings safe and sound, Dark fantasy my ass.

Modifié par Vort3xX, 27 janvier 2014 - 02:47 .