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[Rotward]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Noctis Augustus wrote...

Pre-DA2? Yes. Post-DA2? No.

Odd, because I remember DA ][ having an obsessed killer who kidnaps women and cuts their bodies up to fit into a twisted version of what his wife was. In particular, this killer kidnaps the main character's mother and detaches her HEAD and sews it in place on his Frankenstein, using magic to keep it alive.

You'd be hard pressed to find a moment in DA:O as dark as that.

One word: Branka

[Heimdall]

I generally consider anything that gets much darker than LotR to be some shade of dark fantasy, so yes I would say DA is dark fantasy.

[Martyr1777]

motomotogirl wrote...

Dragon Age is high fantasy. It resembles all the high fantasy books and series I read as a teen (one of which was Game of Thrones! I never would've imagined that one of my dear fantasy books would be made into a TV show! Times have changed...)

Totally agree, high fantasy... DA isn't dark in any way shape or form if you ask me. The darkspawn dodn't really constitute dark to me they are just baddies. About the only thing that comes close to dark with DA is the whole templar/mage circle aspect.

...

I had more but then started to think and change my mind a little. I was going to say Asunder and Cole specifically are about the darkest aspects of DA. But then I started thinking about the ME which I think is a considerably more dark setting then DA (especially ME2) and why it seems dark to me.

That made me remember the city elf and casteless dwarf origins. There are some very dark aspects to the DA settings. However you aren't presented with them often enough for it to feel dark over all, well not imo anyway. I mean the strugles of an alienage and dust town are very dark but you see so little of those harder parts of life in the world. I would sespect they might show more along those lines with Inqusition since we will be traveling around a lot more. So we may come on to slavers that are sactioned in whatever area they are in or something.

But there is soe darkness to be presented in DA, but its just not presented as often as I would expect (like?) for a truely dark setting, and I prefer dark settings.

[rasloveszev]

Noctis Augustus wrote...

Pre-DA2? Yes. Post-DA2? No.

I have to disagree with you. While I don't believe Dragon Age is a Dark Fantasy, Dragon Age 2 is definitely darker than Dragon Age Origins. In DAO, you atleast had the power to create a happy ending, DA2's ending is just BITTER. Dragon Age 2 is about a Ferleden who's put into suitutations she/he has no control over, all their family is dead, their mother brutally murdered, and....it seems more depressing. 

[HurricaneGinger]

Broodmothers, the Calling, Corypheus, the Architect, Anders and Justice, Leandra Hawke, demons and mages...yes, it's very dark.

I'm hoping for more in Inquisition.

[Ianamus]

Dragon Age Origins has a much darker tone than Dragon Age 2. An entire country is being slowly corrupted and destroyed, the circle tower has become a demon infested monstrosity with the surviving mages on the brink of being killed off, and that's not getting into the broodmother segment.

Branka not only allowed her entire house to die but also let the females be transformed into broodmothers, to reach an anvil that can sacrifice living creatures into golems. That alone was darker than anything in Dragon Age 2 for one simple reason: Branka appeared to be mostly sane. 

Not to mention most of the Origins. Your childhood friend dies and your tainted with an incurable affliction. Your younger brother frames you for your elder brothers death and your left to wander the deep roads until you die. Your entire family bar your brother are assassinated by a family friend. You or your fiance are kidnapped on the day of your wedding to be sexually abused and likely killed.

And then there's the quiet village in the mountains that secretly worships Dragons and commits human sacrifice...

Yeah, Origins was much darker than Dragon Age 2. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that half of Dragon age 2's antagonists are simply insane, so theres no sense of the "darker" side of humanity- just the loopy and mentally ill side. A character who does despicable things while in full awareness of their actions is dark, while an insane charcter doing despicable things is exactly what you'd expect an insane person to do. Theres a reason Petrice was one of the darker and better antagonists in the game- she was practically the only one who wasn't written off as raving mad.

I wouldn't really call either of them "dark fantasy" as a genre though. More like standard heroic fantasy with dark elements.

Modifié par EJ107, 27 janvier 2014 - 11:10 .

[Master Warder Z_]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Also, if we're talking about darkness, well... Kingdom Hearts.

<.<

I have to do it now you realize.

*Clears throat of flim*

KINGDOM HEARTS!?!!

._. That's right i  quoted Ximnas but that said.

Kingdom Hearts is no way what i personally would construe as "Dark" Anything considering that more often then not true sorrow isn't something that even vaguely lingers, its overcome, Personal Angst gotten over and barely any one even dies in that "dark" Universe.

Honestly its in its own universe where most of the disney characters apparently are ._. and they have a mouse for a King and you label it dark? It has some sinister elements and its storyboard is sort of...Gloomy i guess but dark? No.

[AresKeith]

Master Warder Z wrote...

._. That's right i  quoted Xemnas but that said.

One of the best Villains ever

[JCAP]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Rotward wrote...

One word: Branka

So who does Branka cut into pieces and use necromancy to animate?

The only thing Branka does is allow Hespith to be taken. That in and of itself, the women turning into Broodmothers, could probably be considered as dark. But it's only one instance, just like DA ][.

To be honest? I found the broodmother episode more darker than whatever happened to Hawke mother.

In both of the scenes I was like "and what?", but with DA:O I did get a little feeling, in DA II I was asking myself if I should feel anything... Maybe it was the cartoonish style?

[JCAP]

PhantomGinger wrote...

Broodmothers, the Calling, Corypheus, the Architect, Anders and Justice, Leandra Hawke, demons and mages...yes, it's very dark.

I'm hoping for more in Inquisition.

Go play Witcher 2 or Dark Souls and then come back here.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Maybe there is something wrong with me but I found the ''Dark'' elements in the Dragon Age series more comical than dark. I'd say DA is high fantasy, not dark fantasy.

Game Of Thrones is dark fantasy.

[Master Warder Z_]

AresKeith wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

._. That's right i  quoted Xemnas but that said.

One of the best Villains ever

Xemny was Alright i guess...You really need to go beyond Kingdom Hearts two though to truely understand the character beyond him merely being a shade of Xenohort though.

._.

[AresKeith]

Master Warder Z wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

._. That's right i  quoted Xemnas but that said.

One of the best Villains ever

Xemny was Alright i guess...You really need to go beyond Kingdom Hearts two though to truely understand the character beyond him merely being a shade of Xenohort though.

._.

I know he is, but he's still one of the better versions along with Young Xehanort

[jamesp81]

I consider DA to Dark Fantasy.  The darkest fantasy ever?  No, certainly there's plenty further along on the darkness factor than DA, but I'd definitely say it's more dark fantasy than high fantasy.

[Noctis Augustus]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Noctis Augustus wrote...

Pre-DA2? Yes. Post-DA2? No.

Odd, because I remember DA ][ having an obsessed killer who kidnaps women and cuts their bodies up to fit into a twisted version of what his wife was. In particular, this killer kidnaps the main character's mother and detaches her HEAD and sews it in place on his Frankenstein, using magic to keep it alive.

You'd be hard pressed to find a moment in DA:O as dark as that.

Oh, it's... you.

That's horror? I see the standards for that genre have significantly decreased since I last remember.

How about having an unstoppable horde of flesh eating intimidating humanoids bent on destroying/corrupting the sentient races? How about this:

Elton John is dead wrote...

Compared to this, a simple serial killer is... ordinary.

DAO had a lot of "lovecraftian" elements... And *no one* is better writting horror than  H.P. Lovecraft.

Modifié par Noctis Augustus, 27 janvier 2014 - 11:59 .

[rasloveszev]

[quote]EJ107 wrote...

Dragon Age Origins has a much darker tone than Dragon Age 2. An entire country is being slowly corrupted and destroyed, the circle tower has become a demon infested monstrosity with the surviving mages on the brink of being killed off, and that's not getting into the broodmother segment.
[/quote]

But the difference is you can stop it. 

You could save the Circle and the Mages. 

You can't do that with Dragin Age 2, you can barely control the ending.

When I think of dark, I think of depressing. The Broodmother thing was more horrific. I would have liked if the Female Wardens were more emotional towards the possiblity of being Broodmothers but it didn't happen. 

With Leandra, we got to know her character more, so her death was not only horrific but depressing. 

[quote]
Branka not only allowed her entire house to die but also let the females be transformed into broodmothers, to reach an anvil that can sacrifice living creatures into golems. That alone was darker than anything in Dragon Age 2 for one simple reason: Branka appeared to be mostly sane. 
[/quote]

You think every crazy person appears crazy?

[quote]
Not to mention most of the Origins. Your childhood friend dies and your tainted with an incurable affliction.
[/quote]

His death was an bad as Leandra's. Like I said you were given more time to know Leandra and Hawke's relationship than you were with Mahariel and Tamlen's.

[quote]
Your younger brother frames you for your elder brothers death and your left to wander the deep roads until you die.
[/quote]

Good point.

[quote]
Your entire family bar your brother are assassinated by a family friend.
[/quote]

If you play your cards right, you get to kill him, take his lands, find your brother to be alive, and get to be queen and rule along side your darling husband.

[quote]
You or your fiance are kidnapped on the day of your wedding to be sexually abused and likely killed.
[/quote]

Yeah, but get to save people from being raped (besides Shanni), but in Dragon Age 2, the rape within the Circle continues and you're powerless to stop it.

[quote]
And then there's the quiet village in the mountains that secretly worships Dragons and commits human sacrifice...
[/quote]

But you get to kill them.

[quote]
Yeah, Origins was much darker than Dragon Age 2.
[/quote]

I don't believe so. You can atleast make Ferelden a better place, but you fail to save Kirkwall from massacres and war. Even if you do become Countess, you did it by slaughtering innocents mages due to an apostate's individual act of terrorism.

[quote]
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that half of Dragon age 2's antagonists are simply insane, so theres no sense of the "darker" side of humanity- just the loopy and mentally ill side.
[/quote]

I think that's worst! People aren't truly the villains, they're victums of Meridith's insansity. I think that a series that allows you to sympathize with the people who're about to kill is darker than just having a villain like Howe running around.

[quote]
A character who does despicable things while in full awareness of their actions is dark,
[/quote]

Basically Disney villains.

[quote]
while an insane charcter doing despicable things is exactly what you'd expect an insane person to do.
[/quote]

THAT'S WORST. They don't know what they're doing is wrong!  Or even worst than that they can't help themselves. 

[quote]
Theres a reason Petrice was one of the darker and better antagonists in the game- she was practically the only one who wasn't written off as raving mad.
[/quote]

ARE YOU SERIOUS?! She thought she was doing the work of the Maker. She did not believe her actions were evil at all! She was crazy, just less crazy than Meridith.

[quote]
I wouldn't really call either of them "dark fantasy" as a genre though. More like standard heroic fantasy with dark elements.[/quote]

But there was barely anything heroic about Dragon Age 2 when compare Dragon Age Origins. Heroes save day in the end, in Dragon Age 2, you don't.

[Rotward]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Rotward wrote...

One word: Branka

So who does Branka cut into pieces and use necromancy to animate?

The only thing Branka does is allow Hespith to be taken. That in and of itself, the women turning into Broodmothers, could probably be considered as dark. But it's only one instance, just like DA ][.

I couldn't shorten: "Darkspawn forcing people to eat each other" into one word. Branka did force her clan to run into traps, just to test them. Branka also had the women captured delibrately; she needed broodmothers to produce darkspawn . There was also Avernus impaling gray wardens on spikes for his expiriments. King Valtor butchered the castless, on The Anvil of the Void, to make golems. Apparently, the process involves a lot of screaming. Lets not forget Uldred forcing mages to become abominations, and torturing templars. 

Oh, and the zombie darkspawn horde that the game focused on. All the political intrigue, torture, crimes against humanity, etc were there in both games. It's just that DA:O had the apocolypse, too. 

How the game ends is not a relevant topic. Most dark fantasy isn't in video games, so you don't control the ending at all. Dark fantasy often ends on a bittersweet note, and even horror can have a "good" ending, so long as people are lost along the way.

In DA:O we can save some of the mages, but most of them were turned into abominations, and had to be killed. You can defeat the darkspawn, but not until they cut swath of destruction through Ferelden,. You can kill the Tevinter slaver, but you can't retrieve the slaves already shipped out.

Modifié par Rotward, 28 janvier 2014 - 04:25 .

[Wulfram]

It's all relative, on a continuum. There's no clear dividing line. And "Dark" can mean a variety of things

I wouldn't personally particularly want more horror elements, or for a more cynical view of human nature to be taken. I'd like to see less failure from our protagonist than in DA2, but less apparent omnipotence than in DA:O. I preferred DA:O's more serious tone to DA2's more jokey and self aware one.

[Seishoujyo]

JCAP wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

Broodmothers, the Calling, Corypheus, the Architect, Anders and Justice, Leandra Hawke, demons and mages...yes, it's very dark.

I'm hoping for more in Inquisition.

Go play Witcher 2 or Dark Souls and then come back here.

I think the chara design doesn't help in DAO and DA2, DA2 feels almost like World of Warcaft the characters are way too cartoonish.

It seems it's better in DAI, just look at Cassandra, she has a mature design now.

[Dabrikishaw]

High Fantasy.

[addiction21]

Rotward wrote...


Oh and how the game ends is NOT a relevant topic. Most dark fantasy isn't in video games, so you don't control the ending at all. Dark fantasy often ends on a bittersweet note, and even horror can have a "good" ending, so long as people are lost along the way.

In DA:O we can save some of the mages, but most of them were turned into abominations, and had to be killed. You can defeat the darkspawn, but not until a swath of destruction is cut through Ferelden, and most of the gray wardens are killed. You can kill the Tevinter slaver, but you can't retrieve the slaves already shipped out.

Because in DA2 you can always save everyone all the time and never lose anyone on the way.

Nothing but sparkles and rainbows... How are all those innocent nobodies that got gassed by the Quanari doing? You cant save them.
How about the Viscount? Oh right no head you cant save them.
Anybody that happens to be in the Chantry when Anders blows it up? No saving them.
No matter your choice at the end Mages and Templars are die around every corner. No saving them

[Noctis Augustus]

rasloveszev wrote...

When I think of dark, I think of depressing.

It doesn't matter what you think.

Definition (wikipedia):
Dark fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy which can refer to literary, artistic and filmic works that combine fantasy with elements of horror. The term can be used broadly to refer to fantastical works that have a dark, gloomy atmosphere or a sense of horror and dread.

[HiroVoid]

Noctis Augustus wrote...

rasloveszev wrote...

When I think of dark, I think of depressing.

It doesn't matter what you think.

Definition (wikipedia):
Dark fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy which can refer to literary, artistic and filmic works that combine fantasy with elements of horror. The term can be used broadly to refer to fantastical works that have a dark, gloomy atmosphere or a sense of horror and dread.

Wouldn't 'dark, gloomy' count as a synonym for depressing?