69 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

I meant in the vision range it receives. Certainly not IR or UV bands.

[SwobyJ]

von uber wrote...

I meant in the vision range it receives. Certainly not IR or UV bands.

Yeah I guess they see in the same range, same textures to things, stuff like that.

It's just I find highly suspect:
1)The perceptual capabilities of them (cybernetic component that might view things differently...)
2)The mind-eye connection. In fact, what IS Shepard's brain? This is also assisted by cybernetics, is it not? It's just fully organic in itself, is all. How might Shepard's perception be different through the brain, and how can it be expressed via the eyes? This isn't something to utterly wave off, considering the content we have in the main stories and DLCs.

But whatever. Ignore my posts lol. I rant about things that might not matter.

[von uber]

More interestingly, what about the clone? Is she a cyborg too? If not, why didn't they just regrow the parts Shep needed?

[SwobyJ]

StreetMagic wrote...

I always found a little disturbing that you can make fun of the idea of President Huerta having a VI in his head, when it isn't clear if the same hasn't happened to Shepard too.

There's many examples of this, but yeah ME3 (but ME2 does too) get quite... pointed about it.

"What if I'm just a high tech VI that thinks he's Commander Shepard?" *insert reassurance from ally*

All the upgrades though are a bit unsettling to me though. I tend to be vigilant about what goes in my body and how I monitor differences or new sensations.. so if I was Shepard, I would have asked more questions. It's a little too hand-wavey to me, in the games.

I think it is intentionally handwavey. It's not part of Shepard's journey. Maybe it'll be a topic of games to come. Oh wait, 'no Commander Shepard'.


I'm not saying he's 'programmed' to not ask questions. Because, well, he does ask questions. I'm just saying that I think there's a reason for it not being significantly investigated during his journey.

[SwobyJ]

Regarding the clone, what do you think this means?
(I probably don't think the same as you, but your guess is as good as mine)

[SwobyJ]

Shepard is not a cyborg unless you consider anyone with a prothetic leg, or an artificial eye, etc, to be a cyborg.

Cyborg usually means 'most or all are replaced mechanically', which is not the case for Shepard. Almost everything he has is/was used to assist or empower, but not replace. If TIM wanted a cyborg, he could have went that one step further and done it.

EDIT: If you want to get most technical, then yes he is. And so is the prothetic example, etc.
In the more typical description, he is not, and EDI would be correct in calling him 'fully human', even though almost everything *involves* cybernetics, even if it doesn't embody them.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 28 janvier 2014 - 09:05 .

[eyezonlyii]

von uber wrote...

More interestingly, what about the clone? Is she a cyborg too? If not, why didn't they just regrow the parts Shep needed?

That would make the clone's lines about being the "real" Commander Shepard even more true wouldn't it?

[SwobyJ]

Street, it's more up to choice.

Having what was done to him, and the experiences he's going through, allows Shepard to think more synthetically than he could have otherwise.

But yes, there's the 'delusion' factor. And that's why I don't think Paragon is treated so kindly as people liked to believe.

Paragon allows healing and progress and unification, but what if a lot of it is done through a lie? Even if it comes out as more of a subjective small fib?

I mean, Shepard is Shepard, or is he? It's that thought process that I think we're supposed to subconsciously figure out.

If Shepard really died from a Collector attack, what becomes of his replacement? Is he the same thing, effectively? Or is he something that can aspire for more, but using 'Shepard' as the core that inspired future greatness?

They even use the same body, mangled as it became.

It may not be shown in the current overt narrative, but I think the Renegade path has a lot of weight behind it that we didn't really think through. What if Renegade is just more honest about the situation(s), Shepard's identity, and what he has to do? In ME2, he made no bones about it - he was working for TIM. In ME3, he made no bones about it - he was going to kill Reapers. He doesn't worry about his personality as Shepard because he has his purpose and goal already.

Citadel DLC (the following are not the exact words, but the message I got from it):
Paragon - Get on my ship, I'll help you find a place in the galaxy. *holds hand out*
Renegade - Get off my ship, you're not Shepard. *kicks him away*

If you view the virtual as strictly virtual, I'd suggest you to stick to Renegade, even as Bioware may tempt you to hang onto your current connections, relationships, and the identity of ME1's Commander Shepard.
"I'm Commander Shepard... and this is my favorite store on the Citadel." -Paragon

Myself, I'm a bit more optimistic about concepts of virtuality. I like to go Paragon and I even leaped for Synthesis! But when it comes down to it, I want the Reapers (at least as they are)... gone.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 28 janvier 2014 - 09:17 .

[von uber]

eyezonlyii wrote...

That would make the clone's lines about being the "real" Commander Shepard even more true wouldn't it?

Disturbingly, yes..

[dreamgazer]

StreetMagic wrote...

It's really sad if Shepard is just a cyborg. Good riddance then. End the story then, please. I feel sorry for his/her LI. They're no different than Joker trying to bang EDI.

(cough)

Most intriguingly of all, Karpyshyn mentioned a discarded plot idea for the beginning of Mass Effect 2 that sounds similar to what Walters and the Mass Effect 3 team eventually chose for the trilogy's ending (er, spoilers):

"There was some ideas that maybe Shepard gets his essence transferred into some kind of machine, becoming a cyborg and becoming a bridge between synthetics and organics - which is a theme that does play up in the game," Karpyshyn concluded. "At one point we thought, maybe that's how he survives into Mass Effect 2."

[SwobyJ]

I know the clone may have been hacking the Archives but..

Did you see 'Commander Shepard' there? What armor did he have on? What is Bioware trying to say?

Why was Zakera Ward 'almost completely destroyed' when in ME2 it was barely touched and was one of the first to recover?

[SwobyJ]

StreetMagic wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

I know the clone may have been hacking the Archives but..

Did you see 'Commander Shepard' there? What armor did he have on? What is Bioware trying to say?

Why was Zakera Ward 'almost completely destroyed' when in ME2 it was barely touched and was one of the first to recover?

You mean the Spectre recruitment vid? He was wearing bulky Defender-esque armor, just like the clone. Also carrying a Revenant.

Yes.
Revenant. Used by the Clone. What is a revenant?
Avenger. Used by Shepard automatically in scenes. Used progressively more by NPCs (even when it looks silly, like on Omega). What is an avenger?
Predator. Carnifex. Used in certain types of situations... Certain guns pop up when betraying someone, Saren style.


The Archives in Citadel DLC state Zakera Ward to be almost completely destroyed by Sovereign's attack.
But we visit Zakera Ward in ME2, right? And Bailey states Zakera to be fine. Barely any rebuilding required, whereas other wards got the brunt of the attack.

Is the Archive incorrect? Or is ME2?
What's the real state of things? What did Shepard's eyes, and mind see? A big part of it is the eye part, which is why I remarked on ME2 having the Wards being full of Red and Blue, but the explorations of the Citadel in ME3 is more Red, Blue, and Green, and in Citadel DLC that expands into Yellow, Magenta, Cyan, etc.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 28 janvier 2014 - 09:29 .

[Mr.House]

SwobyJ wrote...

Shepard is not a cyborg unless you consider anyone with a prothetic leg, or an artificial eye, etc, to be a cyborg.

Cyborg usually means 'most or all are replaced mechanically', which is not the case for Shepard. Almost everything he has is/was used to assist or empower, but not replace. If TIM wanted a cyborg, he could have went that one step further and done it.

EDIT: If you want to get most technical, then yes he is. And so is the prothetic example, etc.
In the more typical description, he is not, and EDI would be correct in calling him 'fully human', even though almost everything *involves* cybernetics, even if it doesn't embody them.

Cyborg: a person whose body contains mechanical or electrical devices and whose
abilities are greater than the abilities of normal humans.

Shepard is a cyborg.

[von uber]

The thought of the clone being the real shepard is massively interesting. Sadly I doubt bioware intend it.

[von uber]

Actually, another thing - when you first enter the Citadel in ME2, Bailey says the Citadel have the best DNA scanners in the business and can even detect illegal gene mods.

But not, in seems, someone with masses of implants on a station where they are screening against Geth attacks..

[dreamgazer]

That would've made Control a lot easier to explain.

[SwobyJ]

Mr.House wrote...

Cyborg: a person whose body contains mechanical or electrical devices and whose
abilities are greater than the abilities of normal humans.

Shepard is a cyborg.

I know that. You read my post, didn't you?

But we don't go around calling everyone who has prothetic assistance or heart monitoring devices to be cyborgs. Shepard is still with every piece of him organic, but replaced through synthetic means (so what - we're learning that tech already), and the healing process is assisted through them. But for example, those eyes that Shepard has is totally organic. It's that it was made and assisted through mechanical means that shows that it isn't a fully 'natural' form of organic eyes.

Shepard is more biosynthetic than synthetic, is what I'm saying. From the most current technical point of view, he's a cyborg (and that's a valid position to take). But from other viewpoints, he's not. Especially not to an AI like EDI, or the 'Catalyst'.

Take your stand because I think that's what Bioware wants. If you outright think he's a cyborg, that's one more thing to convince you to choose Control, because that's a position that asserts that pure organic beings are not remotely sacred, as long as anyone can have abilities above the norm and use that through use of mechanical or electrical devices in their bodies.

StreetMagic wrote...
I understand the significance of the Revenant. Not so much the Avenger.

Starter weapon. Harkens to the past. ME1. Evolved version of the Lancer (at least in visual design).

Revenant --> Ghost or animated corpse of the dead
Avenger --> The past. To avenge is to inflict harm on another due to actions done against you, or against others

Modifié par SwobyJ, 28 janvier 2014 - 09:48 .

[SwobyJ]

von uber wrote...

The thought of the clone being the real shepard is massively interesting. Sadly I doubt bioware intend it.

No! The point of it all is that YOU'RE the real Shepard.

Whatever that... guy...is, he can go to hell, willingly (Paragon) or unwillingly (Renegade).

Through your adventures, travels, relationships, and dedication, you proved that you're the real Shepard. That's what matters.

To believe anything else, is to fall to despair.

[SwobyJ]

von uber wrote...

Actually, another thing - when you first enter the Citadel in ME2, Bailey says the Citadel have the best DNA scanners in the business and can even detect illegal gene mods.

But not, in seems, someone with masses of implants on a station where they are screening against Geth attacks..

Yep, all it determined is that Shepard is 'deceased' or whatever.



Yeah.. she gets that a lot.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 28 janvier 2014 - 09:44 .

[eyezonlyii]

SwobyJ wrote...

von uber wrote...

The thought of the clone being the real shepard is massively interesting. Sadly I doubt bioware intend it.

No! The point of it all is that YOU'RE the real Shepard.

Whatever that... guy...is, he can go to hell, willingly (Paragon) or unwillingly (Renegade).

Through your adventures, travels, relationships, and dedication, you proved that you're the real Shepard. That's what matters.

To believe anything else, is to fall to despair.

All it would have taken would have been for Cerberus to find Shiala to have her meld with the clone and share Shepard's memories with it. Then all would have been complete...