69 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir DeLoria]

StreetMagic wrote...

It's really sad if Shepard is just a cyborg. Good riddance then. End the story then, please. I feel sorry for his/her LI. They're no different than Joker trying to bang EDI.

Hey now, that's unfair. Cyborgs are human, no matter how much metal their body consists of. They think and act like any other human being, after all their brain is still human. Just look at Raiden, he's even married and has a son although only his torso and head are still (mostly)organic.

[von uber]

Actually the more I think about it the odder it is. We are told that the lazarus project took 2 years. When shepard woke she is told she has been dead for 2 years and 12 days. So she only spent a few weeks spaced? She won't have deteriorated that much at those temperatures.
Hmmm.

Would explain how the brain survives.

Modifié par von uber, 29 janvier 2014 - 01:11 .

[SwobyJ]

The brain survived as more than genetics/genetic memory and a general mush?

[ImaginaryMatter]

Maybe the Cipher or whatever somehow physically fortified Shepard's brain?

[SwobyJ]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Maybe the Cipher or whatever somehow physically fortified Shepard's brain?

That's not even close to what it does.

Unless we consider the Cipher to genetically change Shepard's brain to be more like a Prothian...

And we speculate that Prothian brains put their information on the more broadly genetic level than how humans have it...

Meaning anything of Shepard can be spread or shared elsewhere...

Implications.
But I'm not sure!

Modifié par SwobyJ, 29 janvier 2014 - 04:40 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

SwobyJ wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Maybe the Cipher or whatever somehow physically fortified Shepard's brain?

That's not even close to what it does.

Unless we consider the Cipher to genetically change Shepard's brain to be more like a Prothian...

And we speculate that Prothian brains put their information on the more broadly genetic level than how humans have it...

Meaning anything of Shepard can be spread or shared elsewhere...

Implications.
But I'm not sure!

Ya, I'm talking out of my butt here. I was going for the tongue-in-cheek here based off the implausibility of Shepard somehow surviving in a revivable form (to wit, not being reduced to space goo) and the somewhat vague in-game description of what the Cipher does.

As an aside, I think this is what the writers were going for with the Cipher: http://en.wikipedia....ive_Unconscious. Somehow, having an independant wikipedia page that talks about a similar idea adds validity to the whole thing -- at least for me.

[von uber]

I think the only issue I have is with the brain. Even now we are not that far away from pretty much being able to replace every organ we have (probably a combination of stem cell research and 3D printing).
But the brain is a whole different kettle of fish.

Then again, we have Miranda's arse walking around so who knows.

[Massa FX]

I think this thread is over thinking. I doubt Bioware spent this much effort in rationalizing the death of Shepard and her rebirth/regrowth. Unfortunately.

[von uber]

The same could be said for all of these things though.. just look at the synthesis thread!

[shodiswe]

There seems to be nanobots all throughout Shepards body, you could add a carbonfiber weave to the skin to protect agaisnt sharp objects. You could strengthern the bonestructure with carbonfibre. You could do the same to the Musculature.

There were plenty of other things you could upgrade aswell.

The thing is, what you did or didn't doe in ME2 doesn't seem to carry over.

I'm thinking it's assumed you did a lot of upgrading if you survived the suicide mission.

[StarcloudSWG]

I think it's the existence of the Prothean Cipher in Shepard's mind that makes him resistant to Reaper indoctrination. Not *immune*, just resistant. The presence of a separate mindset offers a kind of redundant self-correction that makes it harder for the indoctrination process to work. Combine that with Shepard's formidable willpower, and Shepard can be reached by Reaper indoctrination but it takes much, much longer to work.

As for the rest, yes, Shepard is a cyborg. There are artificial implants, organs, etc, most of which are highly experimental, blending inorganic elements within artificially created organic structures. What Shepard is NOT, is a brain in a metal shell.

[SwobyJ]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

I think it's the existence of the Prothean Cipher in Shepard's mind that makes him resistant to Reaper indoctrination. Not *immune*, just resistant. The presence of a separate mindset offers a kind of redundant self-correction that makes it harder for the indoctrination process to work. Combine that with Shepard's formidable willpower, and Shepard can be reached by Reaper indoctrination but it takes much, much longer to work.

As for the rest, yes, Shepard is a cyborg. There are artificial implants, organs, etc, most of which are highly experimental, blending inorganic elements within artificially created organic structures. What Shepard is NOT, is a brain in a metal shell.

Good and interesting way to put it.

In short, he is an anomaly, like Leviathan states. He's human, but alien. He's somewhat mechanical, yet really not. (And in my crazier thoughts, he's virtual, yet connected to the physical; don't worry, I'm ranting)

The result, anyway, is that he could be exposed to Indoctrination (take your IT hating and loving outta here), but he is NOT one to just fall for it. Instead, he is possibly the rare individual who might be able to weigh the pros and cons of all sides. Neither succumbing utterly to Reaper manipulations, nor fumbling into old Organic mistakes.

[Daemul]

Massa FX wrote...

I think this thread is over thinking. I doubt Bioware spent this much effort in rationalizing the death of Shepard and her rebirth/regrowth. Unfortunately.

Rule of Cool supercedes all. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Massa FX wrote...

I think this thread is over thinking. I doubt Bioware spent this much effort in rationalizing the death of Shepard and her rebirth/regrowth. Unfortunately.

We impose order on the chaos of Mass Effect plot lines.

[von uber]

Interestingly, after the Archangel mission Garrus is implanted with cybernetics as part of his recovery. Only noticed that tonight.

[Massa FX]

von uber wrote...

Interestingly, after the Archangel mission Garrus is implanted with cybernetics as part of his recovery. Only noticed that tonight.

It's not surprising to me. Cyber tech is popular in the galaxy. Messing with DNA  is popular too.

• Motherless Miranda has enhancements and genetic tweaks
• Grunt was born in a tank and has collector tech (--> Reaper tech)
• EDI is an AI w Reaper Tech
• IIRC most of the crew has cyber tech on their fingers to quickly access and move through their vid displays.
• Human biotics have implants to enhance their powers
• The Normandy has Reaper Tech

Being a "natural" is un-natural.

[SwobyJ]

Most of that stuff isn't 'popular'.

Miranda - Rare for humans to have so many changes
Grunt - A process (as far as we know) never seen before, though cloning is a thing
EDI - Technically outlawed and rarely seen, and never seen before in this form
Cybertech fingers - Agreed, this one
Biotic implants - Agreed, this one
Normandy Reaper tech - Incredibly rare until the last couple years


Even go back probably a few 100 to maybe 1000 years, and even more stuff wouldn't be around. Something like the Genophage is probably a simple enough task to do now (game timeline), but when it was done it was a giant endeavor.

I guess from our real world modern perspective, you're right. Almost no one is what we'd call 'natural', as even gene therapies are common enough for humans in the MEU.

But when it comes to AI and *advanced* cybertech, the MEU is still seeing it as rather alien and new. If there was a spectrum (roughly speaking):

Black (for lack of better term) - Tech concept may exist at some point, but only as scary idea
Red - Tech concept exists, but isn't normally advanced and carries many dangers be be aware of
Blue - Tech concept exists, but is becoming mastered and somewhat spread, with come significant related dangers
Green - Tech concept exists and is used widespread and with leaps and bounds in utilization and abilities
White - Tech concept is perfected and doesn't really have much more to go (for example, I'd say we mostly mastered the concept of the wheel in tools and vehicles, even if materials will change)

If this was the deal, cybertech in the current MEU mainstream society is just Red, with the Geth being more Blue, Reapers having elements of Blue and trying for Green, and no one with White.

We have a lot more to go. The most you could give the MEU is that they don't commonly freak the hell out if they see Shepard's cybernetic eyes, but they DO freak out about the concept of having major parts outright replaced by synthetics.

[Frybread76]

I may be wrong but aren't humans more than just their brain? Aren't our personalities also shaped by our endocrine system, which we would lack if we were near-total cyborgs and which an AI would lack altogether?

[SwobyJ]

Frybread76 wrote...

I may be wrong but aren't humans more than just their brain? Aren't our personalities also shaped by our endocrine system, which we would lack if we were near-total cyborgs and which an AI would lack altogether?

Not if we could simulate such a system.

But yes, it does matter.

[Massa FX]

I have to say one freakish thing for me was the Asari eyes when they embrace eternity. ... and that's not cybernetics. That's their natural thing.

I also see the Quarian and Volus suits as possible cyber techy, although its based on their own tech development and not Prothean or Reaper tech (as far as we know).

The Geth... well those Quarians sure know how to make domestic help.

@Frybread76 Feeling philosophical? <smile> Yes, I also agree that we are more than our brain, more than our thoughts (as EDI pointed out) and I believe that we possess unique souls. Although I realize some don't ascribe to that belief, which is fine.