261 réponses à ce sujet

[CosmicGnosis]

I'm playing Mass Effect 2 right now, and I think the morality system is kind of baffling. You get so many random Paragon and Renegade points for saying things that don't necessarily fit into those categories. One moment you might agree with the Illusive Man and get Renegade points, then the next you might express strong disagreement and you get... more Renegade points. Which means that you get Paragon points for agreeing with him. Yeah...

And if you destroy the geth heretics, you get 30 Renegade points. 30 freaking points. And this is a decision that most people would agree with. But if you keep the Collector Base, the choice that frustrates your entire squad, you only get 15 Renegade points.

Really, the morality system in ME2 is a joke. You get too many points from random conversations, and in many cases it's more about your words than your actions. I think ME3 had the best system of the trilogy, but I would prefer no points at all, just character reactions like Dragon Age's system. I want the Paragon/Renegade system to go away, but because it's so fundamental to the established ME experience, I doubt that it will.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 28 janvier 2014 - 04:49 .

[Excella Gionne]

The morality system is useless in ME3, but it seems that it does put a lot of character into Shepard in ME3. 1 and 2's morality system made Shep feel like a robot.

[Jorji Costava]

I'd rather it be abandoned in pretty much all future Bioware games, save perhaps those based on Star Wars. The P/R system had to embody a variety of different conflicts of values; for instance, there was consequentialism vs. deontology, pro-human nationalism versus cosmopolitanism, etc. It was limiting for players who wanted to mix and match from those categories. Also, the fact that you had to be extremely consistent about choosing Paragon or Renegade options on pain of failing later persuasion checks limited role playing options.

I think it would be better if persuasion checks were based on only two things: First, your character's stats/abilities. More charismatic or intelligent characters should be better at persuasion than others. Second, whether or not you can successfully persuade an NPC to take a given course of action should depend on your character's in-game actions. Perhaps some NPC's might be turned off if your PC had established a reputation for ruthlessness, or perhaps taking certain paragon-type actions pisses of other NPC's, meaning that there's practically no way they'll listen to you.

[Mcfly616]

I like how ME3 didn't punish us for being a morally gray character, like the did in previous installments. Idk, maybe they can bring back the middle responses on the dialogue wheel.

And maybe even add a high-level "gray" response akin to how they already have high-level paragon and renegade options (the colored text)....this would make your morality have more effect regarding your dialogue options.

Whereas being morally gray in ME3 gave you access
to both Paragon and Renegade dialogue options, adding a high-level gray option in-between would essentially separate the dialogue into 3 branches. Be mostly paragon and the high-level renegade option won't be available to you, but the low-level version will be so that you can slowly but surely work your way back to the other side of the moral spectrum if need be. It should make the player character more consistent.

[AlanC9]

Morality systems never do anything useful.

[dreamgazer]

Ditch the morality system, incorporate Dragon Age's approval system.

[dreamgazer]

StreetMagic wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Ditch the morality system, incorporate Dragon Age's approval system.

Approval? Is that the one from DAO or DA2? I rather liked the DA2 system myself (it was tied into individual friendships). One of the redeemable things about the game.

It's in both, but DA2 added the positive character elements for creating rivalries.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think Charm/Intimidation (or whatever) should be based off of stats like it was back in ME1. Then instead of a morality system you have a reputation system where points made from decisions go towards. Like if the main character has a high 'red' bar gained from pushing people out of windows and punching reporters, the next time he/she gets into a stand off the other side will react to the main characters Renegade (or whatever) reputation and will be less inclined to believe that the main character will let leave without a body bag.

Just an idea.

[DeinonSlayer]

Ah, yes - "I voted for destroying the heretics before I voted against it."

Drop paragon/renegade; bring in a companion approval system and/or faction approval like Fallout. Better to have people think for themselves about the issues they're presented with rather than mindlessly plugging whatever happens to be at the top of the dialogue wheel.

Inb4 David starts moaning that there would be no themes without blue Happy Points to accompany them.

[dreamgazer]

Faction approval. (thumbs up)

[Zazzerka]

There are also red Angry Points, and probably people who mindlessly choose the "badass" option. Complaining purely about Paragons makes you look like an edgy teenager.

In my opinion.

[dreamgazer]

Deinon, did you check out that 400-page ME3 rewrite that had an ending entirely determined by Paragon and Renegade alignment, where only players with 85% Paragon or above could destroy the Reapers and the rest were shafted with Synthesis/Refuse or EvulControl (> 85% Renegade)?

[spirosz]

TipsLeFedora wrote...

Zazzerka wrote...

There are also red Angry Points, and probably people who mindlessly choose the "badass" option. Complaining purely about Paragons makes you look like an edgy teenager.

In my opinion.

Are there any options for a mid life crisis? I want one.

Yeah twilight sparkles. 

[DeinonSlayer]

Zazzerka wrote...

There are also red Angry Points, and probably people who mindlessly choose the "badass" option. Complaining purely about Paragons makes you look like an edgy teenager.

In my opinion.

How many self-professed "pure renegades" have you seen around here? It's hard to find a youtube playthrough that doesn't choose the paragon option every single time (the funniest one I saw was a guy who, in his running commentary, was repeatedly asking why paragon had him doing certain things but lacked the willpower to deviate from it).

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 28 janvier 2014 - 06:58 .

[Zazzerka]

The pure Renegades are too busy buying black t-shirts and pretending to laugh at natural disasters to upload YouTube videos.

For my two cents, I vote they just remove any indication of a choice having a pre-set morality. Like in DA2 (since the dialogue wheel is a certainty), when you're advising the Viscount and his son about the Qunari. Choices, no cute images of fists or olive branches.

Modifié par Zazzerka, 28 janvier 2014 - 07:02 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Zazzerka wrote...

The pure Renegades are too busy buying black t-shirts and pretending to laugh at natural disasters to upload YouTube videos.

Insert image of South Park goths muttering about "conformists" here.