261 réponses à ce sujet

[shodiswe]

I don't think it's as much of a morality system as a reputation system that describes your characters reputation.

On one side you can have a reputation that means people know who you are, (fame)
Then we got the part that has to do with what people say and think about you.

It's actualy a good thing to have, characters who have heard about you will react according to your reputation, and possibly some major events that shaped who your character is.

People think of it as a morality system, especialy after the red impants that were introdused in ME2 for Renegade characters. The in-game explanation was that the stress and agression affected the healingprocess negatively unless you applied an extra skinregenerator to repair the damage.

Modifié par shodiswe, 31 janvier 2014 - 11:40 .

[CronoDragoon]

StreetMagic wrote...

I kind of like the scars if it's not too extreme (too sithlike).

I do too but I don't think it should be tied to your Renegade score. Instead, just make it and the eyes a customizable option at the medical table.

[AlanC9]

Renegade = monstrous appearance always struck me as something that should have stayed in KotOR. Not sure it even made sense there, though.

[CronoDragoon]

AlanC9 wrote...

Renegade = monstrous appearance always struck me as something that should have stayed in KotOR. Not sure it even made sense there, though.

Right. Why wouldn't a Sole Survivor Paragon have scars, for example? It's pretty cartoony to tie it to Renegade-ness.

[dreamgazer]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Renegade = monstrous appearance always struck me as something that should have stayed in KotOR. Not sure it even made sense there, though.

Right. Why wouldn't a Sole Survivor Paragon have scars, for example? It's pretty cartoony to tie it to Renegade-ness.

You can largely blame that on the popularity of Fable, I believe.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AlanC9 wrote...

Renegade = monstrous appearance always struck me as something that should have stayed in KotOR. Not sure it even made sense there, though.

I agree, especially since one of the points of renegade is that "Not evil, just pragmatic", even if I admit that the scars looks cool.

It was also dumb how no one reacts to the full-renegade scars whats-so-ever.

[Lady Abstract]

I think the red eyes are pretty cool

[sr2josh]

AlanC9 wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

No one was hoping to see their choices "matter" by having all their red/blue points summed up to meet some arbitrary persuasion check which is why no one cared when the morality system was changed.

Well, maybe one person was.

I'm still waiting to see a reason why ME2's approach was a good idea.

Actually a lot of people.  ME2 has been regarded as the highest rated in the series and had the best approach.  I gave you multiple reasons why ME2's system was the best but apparently I forgot who I was talking to.

[AlanC9]

dreamgazer wrote...


You can largely blame that on the popularity of Fable, I believe.

Oh, gods. I'd almost managed to forget that one.

[AlanC9]

Makai81 wrote...

Actually a lot of people.  ME2 has been regarded as the highest rated in the series and had the best approach.  I gave you multiple reasons why ME2's system was the best but apparently I forgot who I was talking to.

Are you saying that people liked ME2 because of its awful persuasion system? 

And what were those reasons again? I get that ME2 encourages a player to go either full Paragon of full Renegade, but you didn't actually say why such encouragement is good rather than bad.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Here's a hypothetical.

What if the Mass Effect series doesn't have a morality system and what is in place in all three games is actually a reputation system of sorts? What it Paragon and Renegade describe how people view Shepard?

[ImaginaryMatter]

Woops, double post.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 31 janvier 2014 - 06:21 .

[sr2josh]

AlanC9 wrote...

Makai81 wrote...

Actually a lot of people.  ME2 has been regarded as the highest rated in the series and had the best approach.  I gave you multiple reasons why ME2's system was the best but apparently I forgot who I was talking to.

Are you saying that people liked ME2 because of its awful persuasion system? 

And what were those reasons again? I get that ME2 encourages a player to go either full Paragon of full Renegade, but you didn't actually say why such encouragement is good rather than bad.

It's only "awful" in your world.  For most gamers and critics alike the system in ME2 was better and I also explained in earlier posts why it was better.  Scroll back to my earlier posts and actually read them.

[CronoDragoon]

Makai81 wrote...
It's only "awful" in your world.  For most gamers and critics alike the system in ME2 was better and I also explained in earlier posts why it was better.  Scroll back to my earlier posts and actually read them.

Sources, please. I see nothing but praise for the Reputation system over ME2's system since I started posting here regularly after ME3's release. Searching for reputation system on the BSN gives me this:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/16470857/1

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 31 janvier 2014 - 08:05 .

[AlanC9]

I'd settle for anyone besides Makai81 arguing that ME2's system was good. As opposed to someone arguing that the system didn't get in the way of RP too much. Unless Wulfram in the thread you linked counts, but I'm not sure what his substantive position is.

Modifié par AlanC9, 31 janvier 2014 - 08:06 .

[mopotter]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Makai81 wrote...

You're not forced to do anything.  In all of my ME2 playthroughs, I was able to accumulate enough paragon or renegade totals to choose most either throughout the game.  However, if you're lazy then yeah you're "forced".

Yes well, you also aren't forced to complete the Suicide Mission without any deaths, but we know almost everyone does, because they want to get the best outcome. This goes for persuasion options as well, and to get all of them you either need to do things like Miranda/Jack and Zaeed SUPER early or you need to almost exclusively pick P or R the whole game. Decision-based games should always encourage you to weigh the pros and cons of each situation, not make decisions based on a meta-meter that nobody in the ME universe can see.

And there are some people who try to kill off as many of their crew as possible.  This does not make sense to me, but they do it and it's their game so I don't care.

Of course I have a couple of games where everyone survived and I didn't look up the cheat sheet.  Every Shepard I have ever played in ME2 sends people to do a job Shepard feels they are qualified for.  And they are qualified but sometimes there are losses and Shepard mourns those losses later. 

I really don't understand people who do the exact thing each time they play.  Having all those options, from everyone survives to a lot of deaths at the end of the game is what makes it so much fun to replay.  

[AlanC9]

Makai81 wrote...

It's only "awful" in your world.  For most gamers and critics alike the system in ME2 was better and I also explained in earlier posts why it was better.  Scroll back to my earlier posts and actually read them.

Oh, I read them. They just don't make much sense.

Why is is a good thing that the game cares how Paragon or Renegade Shepard is? What's actually good about "motivating you to take a Paragon or Renegade path"? You just assume this is a good thing but you can't, or won't, expain what's good about it.

Edit: unless you're just saying that this is your personal choice in RPGs, and you simply like letting the P/R meter tell you what to do. De gustibus, right?

Modifié par AlanC9, 31 janvier 2014 - 08:12 .

[mopotter]

Stakrin wrote...

 I think the color scheme should go. And big choices should be placed side to side instead of up and down, or at least shake up the order. I don't think they should give things like they "good or bad". 

If they did this I would want to know exactly what I'm saying, or i'd have to save before talking to anyone.  

I have more than one "gray" Shepard because I like the neutral choices  and I also pick the option that works for me in the situation.   With the upper lower and middle I have an idea that what I'm saying is either polite, neutral or rude.  I like that knowledge and I don't have to know what the actual words are until they are said.

[SwobyJ]

The color scheme isn't going.

[mopotter]

AlanC9 wrote...

Renegade = monstrous appearance always struck me as something that should have stayed in KotOR. Not sure it even made sense there, though.

Agree about the appearance in both games.  In ME1 I never thought of Renegade being anything other than someone more focused on the outcome than on the people around them.

I'm not big on morality systems, though I do like some kind of reputation/charisma thing.  

[mopotter]

SwobyJ wrote...

The color scheme isn't going.

 

good to know.

[SwobyJ]

mopotter wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Renegade =
monstrous appearance always struck me as something that should have
stayed in KotOR. Not sure it even made sense there, though.

Agree
about the appearance in both games.  In ME1 I never thought of Renegade
being anything other than someone more focused on the outcome than on
the people around them.

I'm not big on morality systems, though I do like some kind of reputation/charisma thing.  

I think it makes a lot of sense in Mass Effect, but we've yet to understand/be explained exactly why/how.

However, I don't particularly like it. In a way, I think it shouldn't be in this series. I don't rail against it, but I think I would if there wasn't there surgery upgrade.

mopotter wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

The color scheme isn't going.

 

good to know.

Sorry; I didn't mean to sound rude. It's just that I think the color stuff (though I do invest myself in theories about it, so I'm biased) is pretty core to what Mass Effect is and how the devs regard it, so even if they wanted to remove it at this point, I really don't think they will.

Like in the other case, I don't particularly love it. My ideal RP system is still seeing a list of options, and the devs trying to make each option have noticable (not 'thematic' or 'cinematic') differences in cause-and-effect, but it appears Bioware doesn't want to go that route, and I can roll with it.