95 réponses à ce sujet

[Kislitsin]

GUYS GIMME AN ANSWER!!!!!!
CAN THE LAZOR STAY????

[Tokenusername]

Only if you shoop da whoop.

[Derpy]

Tokenusername wrote...

Only if you shoop da whoop.

Gooby pls

[Nitrocuban]

Can we has Cain Launcher pls?

[thatonebigdude]

I've long thought weapons should have more clearly defined roles. Look at the AR class; there are, IMO, three weapons that could be considered LMGs- Typhoon, Revenant, Phaeston. A high magazine capacity, mated with somewhat low damage per round and a high fire rate spells enemy supression to me, pretty much what an LMG does in real life.

However, you can't make use of these three guns in a supression role because the enemies don't react in the appropriate way. That's not the gun's fault, that's a flaw in the AI.

So for me, before we should even think of "fixing" weapons, we've got to fix the enemies. Stuff plodding right at you in a straight line only broken by the occasional dodge isn't AI.

I digress, we were discussing guns. OK, we've seen that there is a class of supreme weapons, then the mediocre fillers, and a few flat out stinkers. Some folks feel like the way to handle that is to take all the weapons and stick them in a blender, give it a few good pulses, and pour the resulting concoction into gun molds- a shotgun, a sniper rifle, a pistol, an SMG and an AR, and voila, everything is ok. We'll slap on some different colored paints and tack a knick-knack or two on, to give some variety, but there should be no significant difference between them, they must all kill at the same rate and with the same efficiency, or there will be hell to pay.

NO.

I like that there are different weapon power levels. It gives the game variety to me, as I play ME3MP for the fun of it, not to complete a manifest or bash Banshees to death in .62 seconds. That leads me to try different weapons. I use at least seven of the maligned AR class regularly; 'Phoon, Rev, Lancer, Adas, Falcon, Saber and yes, the lolHarrier. I just ran a series of games with the Collector AR yesterday, great fun but cost me a lot of AR amps. The PPR is awesome on a Juggernaut, so is the Spitfire. I roleplay with the Striker when I run Kroldiers. I hate burst fire weapons, so no Vindicator, Valkyrie, or Argus (but it's actually okay, especially on Turians). That leaves the Avenger, which was great when I played Bronze and hadn't promoted my first class, but got left behind long ago.

What it boils down to is every weapon has a place. They can all be fun, and fun is something that gets lost in the shuffle, I feel, for people who complain about weapon potency. 

Every weapon should be as unique as possible, and one way that can be accomplished is by mixing the capacity for raw damage with other capabilities. No, the Falcon isn't as flat out damaging as the Harrier, but it staggers and applies ammo effects better than anything else IMO, and that makes it equally viable to me and how I play. The idea that a GE w/Falcon, Incendiary III or IV and Chain Overload can mash enemies into fine binary code bits encapsulates everything good about the MP to me.

[Kislitsin]

thatonebigdude wrote...
The PPR is awesome on a Juggernaut

You just made Destroyer, OG-Turians and a dozen of other kits cry... shame on you.

Modifié par Kislitsin, 28 janvier 2014 - 06:51 .

[Caldari Ghost]

reaper upgrades.

[LemurFromTheId]

thatonebigdude wrote...

I digress, we were discussing guns. OK, we've seen that there is a class of supreme weapons, then the mediocre fillers, and a few flat out stinkers. Some folks feel like the way to handle that is to take all the weapons and stick them in a blender, give it a few good pulses, and pour the resulting concoction into gun molds- a shotgun, a sniper rifle, a pistol, an SMG and an AR, and voila, everything is ok. We'll slap on some different colored paints and tack a knick-knack or two on, to give some variety, but there should be no significant difference between them, they must all kill at the same rate and with the same efficiency, or there will be hell to pay.

Has anyone suggested anything like that?

[Fortack]

Aedolon wrote...

That's a good thought, although I'd greatly prefer it if mods came with both pros and cons - you know, so that they modify the weapon instead of just improving it. +30% against shields, -10% against everything else. +10% accuracy, -10% ROF. +30% mag capacity, +40% reload duration. Stuff like that. More mod slots. And ammo mods too, instead of one-time consumables or ammo powers.

The nerf-whining-crowd is probably going berserk because of a sensible system like that

Couldn't agree more, though, I am afraid that publishers will (try to) force the devs to create IWIN-items they can sell in their horrible RNG store thing. Balance is good for the game and those who play it, but bad for those who try to make as much money as possible out of it. I feel sorry for devs who want to design quality games but have to ruin some parts of their product deliberately b/c morons who never play games believe* it's best for business.

* I say believe b/c it is debatable whether or not the current focus on micro transactions is the best way to optimize profits. I actually believe it is a bad idea for the simple reason that it scares away casual gamers who are the bulk of potential customers. Most people don't like having to pay or play an awful lot just to get access to stuff that ought to be available for everyone who payed for the damn game to begin with.

[FuriousFelicia]

Why not make weapons just as kits, with unique upgrade trees instead of the current level up system where the weapon's stats go up automatically as it gains level?

You just doubled the variations.

[Deerber]

Aedolon wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

XCPTNL wrote...

In my opinion one of the biggest flaws in ME3's weapon "design" is the fact, that they are not equal in strength. There obviously weapons that serve no purpose whatsoever except for being an annoyance in the store-lottery and a waste of space in the inventory. LESS IS MORE! I like that there are different kinds of weapons per class that behave differently and by that alone come some advantages and disadvantages and a certain amount of imbalance. But in the end, every weapon of every category should be a viable candidate that you can take to the battlefield (on the highest difficulty of course). If they design the weapons in ME4 with that thought in mind, evberything will be much better.

Well...this isn't a PvP shooter; it's PvE 3rd person shooter with RPG elements. In RPG games it's fairly normal to upgrade your weaponry over time, leaving behind the lower level equipment you used in the past. So I'm okay with that element.

It's a huge waste of development resources when there are almost 70 weapons yet you end up using the top 10 or 15 weapons 95% of the time because the others are just sub-par. It'd be better to have 30 well-designed weapons that are all different and remain useful throughout the game.

Item scaling is already there anyway and the weapon modding system has a lot of room for improvement.

The modding system might just be used to help making all weapons useful.

For example, they might make it so that lower tier weapons are more customizable. They have lower base stats, but you can use more mods on them. If they expand quite a bit on the mods available and what they do, it might get interesting. Maybe even make different tier of mods, and make lower level weapons be able to use higher level mods.

Like say, they could add a mod that let's the weapon do +20% damage to shields, and the tier II does +50%. Now, you have the option of using a higher end weapon without this mod cause you need the slots for more needed mods (ext mag and whatnot), or you can use a weapon with lower base stats, but that is able to fit the +50% mod and still get the most needed mods. Obviously the numbers are just made up and they should balance it, but the concept's there.

It would also fit the lore, as usually lower tier weapons are older and more trustworthy ones, with more spare parts in the market etc... It's logical that they could get modded further than the newest kassa fabrication top of the line SMG.

That's a good thought, although I'd greatly prefer it if mods came with both pros and cons - you know, so that they modify the weapon instead of just improving it. +30% against shields, -10% against everything else. +10% accuracy, -10% ROF. +30% mag capacity, +40% reload duration. Stuff like that. More mod slots. And ammo mods too, instead of one-time consumables or ammo powers.

Sure, that would be awesome too.

[Kislitsin]

I wish we had a more deep modding system, i.e. different shavers, recievers, scopes, barrels, heatsinks etc.

But only if the lazor is in the game!!! (I wouldn't play otherwise).

[LemurFromTheId]

Fortack wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

That's a good thought, although I'd greatly prefer it if mods came with both pros and cons - you know, so that they modify the weapon instead of just improving it. +30% against shields, -10% against everything else. +10% accuracy, -10% ROF. +30% mag capacity, +40% reload duration. Stuff like that. More mod slots. And ammo mods too, instead of one-time consumables or ammo powers.

The nerf-whining-crowd is probably going berserk because of a sensible system like that

Couldn't agree more, though, I am afraid that publishers will (try to) force the devs to create IWIN-items they can sell in their horrible RNG store thing. Balance is good for the game and those who play it, but bad for those who try to make as much money as possible out of it. I feel sorry for devs who want to design quality games but have to ruin some parts of their product deliberately b/c morons who never play games believe* it's best for business.

* I say believe b/c it is debatable whether or not the current focus on micro transactions is the best way to optimize profits. I actually believe it is a bad idea for the simple reason that it scares away casual gamers who are the bulk of potential customers. Most people don't like having to pay or play an awful lot just to get access to stuff that ought to be available for everyone who payed for the damn game to begin with.

Sadly I have to agree with you... IWIN-items (and consumables!) are likely to be exactly what we're getting.

It's funny, a lot people are saying that BW/EA won't get rid of the RNG store because it brings in so much money... but I've never seen any figures. Personally I'd never pay anything for a random pack - especially when I don't know the odds - but I might be interested in buying a specific weapon or item that I want with real, actual, honest-to-god genuine money.

[FuriousFelicia]

Exactly

[bauzabauza]

HMWA X

[LemurFromTheId]

FuriousFelicia wrote...

Why not make weapons just as kits, with unique upgrade trees instead of the current level up system where the weapon's stats go up automatically as it gains level?

You just doubled the variations.

Not a bad idea, however...

Trees are evil. For some reason they give players the impression that they increase the amount of choice, but in reality, they only limit it. Why do I have to take the +20% damage evolution first before I can take the +30% cooldown evolution? Why do I have to choose between shields and melee damage, why can't I take both? Let us just pick the individual evolutions. A simple point-buy system is all we need. +50% radius? 4 points. Extra grenade? 2 points. Affects shielded targets? 6 points. Etc.

As for weapons, this would lead to system that's functionally similar to what I suggested: you simply pick the mods you want to use, within certain restrictions.

[FuriousFelicia]

Aedolon wrote...

FuriousFelicia wrote...

Why not make weapons just as kits, with unique upgrade trees instead of the current level up system where the weapon's stats go up automatically as it gains level?

You just doubled the variations.

Not a bad idea, however...

Trees are evil. For some reason they give players the impression that they increase the amount of choice, but in reality, they only limit it. Why do I have to take the +20% damage evolution first before I can take the +30% cooldown evolution? Why do I have to choose between shields and melee damage, why can't I take both? Let us just pick the individual evolutions. A simple point-buy system is all we need. +50% radius? 4 points. Extra grenade? 2 points. Affects shielded targets? 6 points. Etc.

As for weapons, this would lead to system that's functionally similar to what I suggested: you simply pick the mods you want to use, within certain restrictions.

Yes and for that mater I would love if we were able to go beyond 84 points all the way to say...150:devil: Still some limmits left:innocent:

[Tybo]

I wholeheartedly approve of everything Aedolon's said in this thread. Well reasoned and IMO better game design. I would much prefer 30 interesting and unique, balanced weapons than what we have now. The weapon leveling system can function as the increase in power associated with RPGs instead of useless weapons that are completely obsoleted by more powerful ones. More interesting gun modding would also be wonderful.

Lightswitch, if there's one weapon in the game that is god mode it is clearly the lolReegar. I honestly find the Harrier to be pretty well balanced with the elite weapon class of Talon, Hurricane, Wraith, and PPR. (Leaving only Sniper Rifles as a class without an "elite weapon" imo).

I really dislike the video game trope that shotguns can only be used at essentially melee range, and am glad this game forgoes it. The way accuracy bonuses interact and the complete necessity of the smart choke could use work though.

I would agree with larger maps, but also agree with the point that larger maps need more enemies to feel populated. No one likes sprinting back and forth on Rio to find enemies.

[Peer of the Empire]

If the Harrier were nerfed no one would use assault rifles ever except for the gimmick charge up ones.  There would be no proper assault rifle.

I'd like more Striker and Collector Sniper graphical effects

[Tokenusername]

This thread is giving me genophage.

[LemurFromTheId]

Tokenusername wrote...

This thread is giving me genophage.

Working as intended.

[Malanek]

Yeah, weapons should be balanced better. The Harrier is a bit too good on gold and below but I actually think the balance is fine on Platinum (probably only the third best assault rifle) where the ammo issue does come into consideration. The Harrier is far from the only overpowered weapon in the game however.

I think the long range accuracy of shotguns is more the fault of the smart choke than anything else, most overpowered weapon mod in the game.

As for getting rid of hitscan weapons, well I really have no idea why you want to do that. Would not support that at all.

Overall, although it could be improved, I think the weapon design is fairly good. Most weapons do have a point of difference and a niche in the game. There is a lot of variety and most of them feel satisfying to use.