642 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Jaison1986 wrote...

You are forgetting metagaming allow people not only to control the characters, but also how the wolrd around them goes.

Which is why I want no "happy" choices, only shades of unhappy and you choose which one you pick. Let those who want their power fantasy find it elsewhere.

[Mr.House]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

You are forgetting metagaming allow people not only to control the characters, but also how the wolrd around them goes.

Which is why I want no "happy" choices, only shades of unhappy and you choose which one you pick. Let those who want their power fantasy find it elsewhere.

Agreeded.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Mr.House wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

You are forgetting metagaming allow people not only to control the characters, but also how the wolrd around them goes.

Which is why I want no "happy" choices, only shades of unhappy and you choose which one you pick. Let those who want their power fantasy find it elsewhere.

Agreeded.

That kinda sounds like a bowl full of suck. No offense.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Which is why I want no "happy" choices, only shades of unhappy and you choose which one you pick. Let those who want their power fantasy find it elsewhere.

That's not the only reason some of us want happy options.

I don't care if people metagame.  I'm content to let them ruin their own experience.  I've never chosen the third option in Redcliffe, because it never made sense for my character to do so.  but I like that it was there, and I would have been happy if it had resulted in failure, but I'm also happy that it succeeds.  In fact, I like that success more because the choice was such a longshot.

That's drama.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Martyr1777 wrote...


Well obviously it can't truely be random. It would have to have something to do with the plot yes. But if it happened before the end it would SEEM random and very unexpected.

And what you say about the Inquisitor dieing 2/3 of the way through and the companions picking it up. Why not? Aside from it would ****** off all the happy happy joy joy people... I would love to see that, especially because Bioware does have a good track record of every players making some kind of connection with the NPC's, so it wouldn't be like the player lost all connection to a character if the initial protaganist dies.

That all being said, will never happen except maybe in an indie game.

The truly random element can be a theme, and I think in the right format it will work, which is why I commented on that. But something shorter or more episodic would seem a better format for that.

As for dying 2/3rds of the way through, well absolutely why not. In this style of game it would be one of the few ways I can see of claiming the anyone can die theme. As to whether it will ever happen or not, I wouldn't write it off as never, but I probably wouldn't put more than a fiver on it either.

And don't write off the happy happy joy joy people too much. I'm one of them, and little makes me happier than a point in the story where I go 'Well I wasn't expecting that - but by god it works'.

[Mr.House]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

You are forgetting metagaming allow people not only to control the characters, but also how the wolrd around them goes.

Which is why I want no "happy" choices, only shades of unhappy and you choose which one you pick. Let those who want their power fantasy find it elsewhere.

Agreeded.

That kinda sounds like a bowl full of suck. No offense.

For you maybe.

[Mr.House]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Which is why I want no "happy" choices, only shades of unhappy and you choose which one you pick. Let those who want their power fantasy find it elsewhere.

That's not the only reason some of us want happy options.

I don't care if people metagame.  I'm content to let them ruin their own experience.  I've never chosen the third option in Redcliffe, because it never made sense for my character to do so.  but I like that it was there, and I would have been happy if it had resulted in failure, but I'm also happy that it succeeds.  In fact, I like that success more because the choice was such a longshot.

That's drama.

That's not drama, it just makes the conflict pointless because there is a massive get out of jail free card, which even Gaider said he wish he could take out so even the writers regret having that choice being there.

Modifié par Mr.House, 30 janvier 2014 - 10:42 .

[wright1978]

I like the third option at Redcliffe. I'd probably prefer it to be conditional on doing Circle first though as well as not dawdling. Constantly have the PC fail or choose the lesser of evils isn't any better than having him/her always getting the best outcome.

[Barquiel]

I love my sunshine and rainbow endings

I kinda like saving all my friends. I don't play a game and find it more satisfying because the game says X must die for you to win. But I'm preparing myself for anything....

[LPPrince]

I'm sick of Bioware's tragic endings. DA2's was bad enough just quality wise, but ME3 was so out of left field that it ruined my taste for it.

I want happy endings now. It makes sense for tragedy in something like The Walking Dead Telltale episodes, but I don't expect nor want to be forced into a sad ending in a Dragon Age.

[Mr.House]

LPPrince wrote...

I'm sick of Bioware's tragic endings. DA2's was bad enough just quality wise, but ME3 was so out of left field that it ruined my taste for it.

I want happy endings now. It makes sense for tragedy in something like The Walking Dead Telltale episodes, but I don't expect nor want to be forced into a sad ending in a Dragon Age.

The world is in ruins, civil unrest, races at eachothers throats and the world being threaten by the fade and demons. Ya a happy ending is so going to fit this......

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Mr.House wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

You are forgetting metagaming allow people not only to control the characters, but also how the wolrd around them goes.

Which is why I want no "happy" choices, only shades of unhappy and you choose which one you pick. Let those who want their power fantasy find it elsewhere.

Agreeded.

That kinda sounds like a bowl full of suck. No offense.

For you maybe.

To be honest it sounds less like a video game and more like a real life tax filing simulator. No matter what option you pick, the result is you misfile the taxes and get sent to federal prison for tax evasion. Also, you have the option to be nice or mean to your wife on the phone, which results in her cheating on you with the gardener and moving away with the kids. It does however change whether the divorce papers arrive on the 3rd or the 5th of that month.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 30 janvier 2014 - 10:55 .

[StarcloudSWG]

Tragic, sad, bittersweet, and other 'downer' endings CAN work, but they have to be emotionally satisfying and cathartic.

And that is very, very hard to pull off.

[TheChris92]

I like endings where characters die to serve a bigger purpose and it being consistent, whereas I don't like pretentious ass-pull endings like say Star Ocean or ME3 where it makes absolutely no sense. Usually the tragic, bittersweet and or downer endings are the most powerful when done right to me. They usually provoke most emotion in me which makes me think and actually care about what's happening. In DA:O I felt like The Dark Ritual & the Sacrifice both made sense to me. In truth though, I obviously didn't want the ending where the Warden doesn't stroll off with Leliana because I knew I had a choice then of course I'd pick that.

[Mr.House]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Tragic, sad, bittersweet, and other 'downer' endings CAN work, but they have to be emotionally satisfying and cathartic.

And that is very, very hard to pull off.

LoU, PS:T, Bioshock Infinte, Persona 2 and 3, RDR, Arkam City. That's just off the top of my head.

[LPPrince]

Mr.House wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I'm sick of Bioware's tragic endings. DA2's was bad enough just quality wise, but ME3 was so out of left field that it ruined my taste for it.

I want happy endings now. It makes sense for tragedy in something like The Walking Dead Telltale episodes, but I don't expect nor want to be forced into a sad ending in a Dragon Age.

The world is in ruins, civil unrest, races at eachothers throats and the world being threaten by the fade and demons. Ya a happy ending is so going to fit this......

Yeah, it actually could.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Mr.House wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I'm sick of Bioware's tragic endings. DA2's was bad enough just quality wise, but ME3 was so out of left field that it ruined my taste for it.

I want happy endings now. It makes sense for tragedy in something like The Walking Dead Telltale episodes, but I don't expect nor want to be forced into a sad ending in a Dragon Age.

The world is in ruins, civil unrest, races at eachothers throats and the world being threaten by the fade and demons. Ya a happy ending is so going to fit this......

Sure it could, nothing wrong with the theme of existing through the darkest of days, through chaos, death and destruction, to emerge at the end with the glimmer of hope surviving.

[TheChris92]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...


To be honest it sounds less like a video game and more like a real life tax filing simulator. No matter what option you pick, the result is you misfile the taxes and get sent to federal prison for tax evasion. Also, you have the option to be nice or mean to your wife on the phone, which results in her cheating on you with the gardener and moving away with the kids. It does however change whether the divorce papers arrive on the 3rd or the 5th of that month.

Far as I recall -- The 'endings' to the first Deus Ex were not particular happy regardless of which one you picked, same for Human Revolution, but I don't remember many people complaining about that. They were worked out as morally ambigious endings which lets the player choose which one seems mostly 'correct' or 'right' to them. They are all very gray, which is good I'd say. Mind you, Human Revolution's endings were a bit weak but not so much because of them being tragic but rather not leaving any big form of impact. Tragic Ending =/= Bad Ending

Modifié par TheChris92, 30 janvier 2014 - 11:02 .

[Mr.House]

LPPrince wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I'm sick of Bioware's tragic endings. DA2's was bad enough just quality wise, but ME3 was so out of left field that it ruined my taste for it.

I want happy endings now. It makes sense for tragedy in something like The Walking Dead Telltale episodes, but I don't expect nor want to be forced into a sad ending in a Dragon Age.

The world is in ruins, civil unrest, races at eachothers throats and the world being threaten by the fade and demons. Ya a happy ending is so going to fit this......

Yeah, it actually could.

Ya sorry but a story should not be comprmised because people want their happiness. If you don't like it because it's tragic play a diffrent game that gives you happiness, there's no shortage.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

TheChris92 wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...


To be honest it sounds less like a video game and more like a real life tax filing simulator. No matter what option you pick, the result is you misfile the taxes and get sent to federal prison for tax evasion. Also, you have the option to be nice or mean to your wife on the phone, which results in her cheating on you with the gardener and moving away with the kids. It does however change whether the divorce papers arrive on the 3rd or the 5th of that month.

Far as I recall -- The 'endings' to the first Deus Ex were not particular happy regardless of which one you picked, same for Human Revolution, but I don't remember many people complaining about that. They were worked out as morally ambigious endings which lets the player choose which one seems mostly 'correct' or 'right' to them. They are all very gray, which is good I'd say. Tragic Ending =/= Bad Ending

Human Revolution had an ending? I remember I thought my game was glitching, a bunch of unrealted pics flashing on the screen while jensen narrated, presumably over what was suppose to be the ending before it got corrupted, and then the credits rolled. Never got it and found out on youtube that those were the endings, so I just decided they didn't want their game to have an ending.

Like the sopronos did, only you get to pick from 4 resturants where tony will be sitting when he looks up and smash cuts to credits.

[Mr.House]

I must have played a different game then you Bro.

Modifié par Mr.House, 30 janvier 2014 - 11:05 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Mr.House wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Which is why I want no "happy" choices, only shades of unhappy and you choose which one you pick. Let those who want their power fantasy find it elsewhere.

That's not the only reason some of us want happy options.

I don't care if people metagame.  I'm content to let them ruin their own experience.  I've never chosen the third option in Redcliffe, because it never made sense for my character to do so.  but I like that it was there, and I would have been happy if it had resulted in failure, but I'm also happy that it succeeds.  In fact, I like that success more because the choice was such a longshot.

That's drama.

That's not drama, it just makes the conflict pointless because there is a massive get out of jail free card, which even Gaider said he wish he could take out so even the writers regret having that choice being there.

I think the better way they could have set it up would be like this:

The order in whcih the Warden completed certain areas affected the outcomes. For instance, if you visited the Brecilian Forest first, the werewolf curse would only just be starting, while if you waited until last, it would have spread in a huge way, causing NPCs you would have met to not appear in the camp, for example. And that werewolves you had to kill would actually correspond to Dalish you would have gotten to know otherwise. Etc.

Then you could have had the Redcliffe scenario, but ONLY have the option of going to the Circle for help if you'd already cleared out the Circle. 

So the only way to get the "Get Out of Jail Free card" scenario would have been this:

First Destination: Circle - few Mages killed or abominated (unless, of course, you chose the Templar option to purge everyone, but that wouldn't work for this particular scenario to get help for Connor). Mage forces are stronger in the end game section than normal.

Second Desitnation: Redcliffe - due to not being the first place you visit, but also not being the last, the amount of devastation seen would have been the same as what DA:O provided - people were attacked, holding on, but not devastated. Connor could be pushed back to his room and then the Warden could save both him and Isolde by getting the Circle's help.

Third Destination: Orzammar - civil war is beginnign to spill over as infighting between Bhelen and Harrowmont escalates. The Carta has grown more powerful and made life more miserable for its inhabitants and there isn't enough time to shut it down, so any ending with Orzammar has to have this dark light taken into account. No Proving fight or Carta clean-up, you are basically given an abbreviated experience due to needing a Paragon's help right away.

Fourth Destination: Brecillian Forest - the curse has affected over half of the Dalish population. Camlen's girlfriend has been turned into a werewolf and you are forced to kill her in a fight with Witherfang, while Zathrien's disgust with the werewolves escalates to the point where he can't be talked into curing the curse willing, but only through his death. The Dalish forces are weaker in the end game section than normal.


Or something derivative of that. 

That way, you can have "happy" choices, but that come at an expense - namely that you can only make so many people happy.

Because isn't that life?

[LPPrince]

Seems to me there is. I've noticed lately that everyone and their mother is thinking, "drama+tragedy=monies+uniqueness" and I'm finding that less and less games are actually giving me satisfying happy endings.

One of the reasons I consider DAO to be so fantastic is it gives you a choice in the type of ending you can achieve. The goal is reached in every instance but given circumstances you can consider it to be a disastrous victory to a huge success.

There's the potential for that again. There's room for both happy endings and dark ones.

I'm asking for those happy endings to not be forsaken like everyone seems to be doing these days. It gets old.

[Mr.House]

There was no happy ending in DAO, the dark ritual ending at best gave you some hope what you did will not bite everyone in the ass, but the game makes it clear you might have made a mistake because you did not want to die which is great, but let's not delude ourselfs that DAo had a dark and happy ending.

[LPPrince]

I consider the Dark Ritual to lead to a happy ending. Certainly for me and my Warden. Archdemon taken down, no one had to be sacrificed, got to spend the night with his beloved, and then the game closed off with his decision to go after and find her for the sake of himself, herself, and their child.

Its up to perception is my point. I'm asking for enough to be there so I can believe its a happy ending.

DAO gave me that.

DA2 didn't. Partly why its the only Bioware game I have played and not been able to complete twice.