642 réponses à ce sujet

[The Flying Grey Warden]

I think even the heroic sacrifice counts as a happy ending considering how everything pretty much works out and the blight ends. Shades of unhappy endings sounds more like if dragon age origins ended in,

1. You and everyone in denerim dies from killing the archdemon. Blight averted, grey wardens celebrated.

2. You couldn't contain all the archdemons soul and so in just 10 years a new blight arose and wiped out ferelden, resulting in the whole country being sacrificed to end the blight. No survivors in ferelden, land is uninhabitable.

3. You didn't get enough troops and the darkspawn swarm to their masters ailing side, killing you and all your comrades along with the city of denerim. The archdemon flees, and it takes 30 bloody years and great loss to the entire world in order to end the blight.

4. Somehow you made the blight permenant and the archdemon immune to being killed by grey wardens. The world now stands witness to the forever blight, and their doom.

[Mr.House]

And when it turns out the old god baby will attack the world, is it still a happy ending?

[Neon Rising Winter]

Mr.House wrote...

There was no happy ending in DAO, the dark ritual ending at best gave you some hope what you did will not bite everyone in the ass, but the game makes it clear you might have made a mistake because you did not want to die which is great, but let's not delude ourselfs that DAo had a dark and happy ending.

What about the sacrifice ending, I found that quite upbeat. You save the world in a blaze of glory.

[Mr.House]

Narrow Margin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

There was no happy ending in DAO, the dark ritual ending at best gave you some hope what you did will not bite everyone in the ass, but the game makes it clear you might have made a mistake because you did not want to die which is great, but let's not delude ourselfs that DAo had a dark and happy ending.

What about the sacrifice ending, I found that quite upbeat. You save the world in a blaze of glory.

You mean how it's implied that Leliana will commit suicide?

Modifié par Mr.House, 30 janvier 2014 - 11:24 .

[TheChris92]

LPPrince wrote...

Seems to me there is. I've noticed lately that everyone and their mother is thinking, "drama+tragedy=monies+uniqueness" and I'm finding that less and less games are actually giving me satisfying happy endings.

I don't know -- I feel that when we are talking about video games it's the other way around. Although, my favorite games of all time all end what I'd consider tragically and or bittersweet -- They tend to leave a bigger impact on me, when they are done well. 

One of the reasons I consider DAO to be so fantastic is it gives you a choice in the type of ending you can achieve. The goal is reached in every instance but given circumstances you can consider it to be a disastrous victory to a huge success.

There's the potential for that again. There's room for both happy endings and dark ones.

I'm asking for those happy endings to not be forsaken like everyone seems to be doing these days. It gets old.

The problem with this, from my point of view, is that it functions less as an actual choice and more as a getaway ticket. There's no choice in the matter -- Why wouldn't ya pick the one ending where you get out safe? You'd never have to pick the other one ever. I mean, with me it's a mix, but then again there are people who are left handed too -- But we aren't that many as far as I'm aware though. I don't see tragic endings as the norm in fact I see happy ending as the norm because we are used to always win. After the days of Romanticism, where the days of H.C Andersen were over and the Modern Breakthrough in litterature came to be, authors would start writing tales with a more morally complex look on the world. Can a video game that ends tragic really not be fun? Perhaps we should exchange the word 'tragic ending' with 'bittersweet' or 'gray', where the choices you get could all be perceived as the 'right' choice to an extent. I know a lot of people who didn't like The Last of Us' ending for instance which I suppose could be perceived as happy and tragic alike. I guess it can be disappointing to have a poignant conclusion if you’ve spent your time and effort trying to beat a game.

Modifié par TheChris92, 30 janvier 2014 - 11:30 .

[LPPrince]

Mr.House wrote...

And when it turns out the old god baby will attack the world, is it still a happy ending?

Thats one- an assumption and two- it doesn't affect the ending in the context of DAO. Still ends happily.

Meta-gaming would make it a tragic ending. Hindsight is 20/20.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Mr.House wrote...

Narrow Margin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

There was no happy ending in DAO, the dark ritual ending at best gave you some hope what you did will not bite everyone in the ass, but the game makes it clear you might have made a mistake because you did not want to die which is great, but let's not delude ourselfs that DAo had a dark and happy ending.

What about the sacrifice ending, I found that quite upbeat. You save the world in a blaze of glory.

You mean how it's implied that Leliana will commit suicide?

Well one could argue it doesn't work out so well for Leliana - although given her devoted bent you would need to argue. But from the point of view of your character's legend, your devoted friend/lover who couldn't go on without you goes pretty well with the blaze of glory theme.

[Wiggs Magee]

Eh... i like tragic endings alot of times, hell even sometimes thinking that a tragic one would've improved the story (Such as in Sherlock Holmes: Game of Shadows, but that's just me)
But in games like DA:I and ME3, saying that the hero HAS to die at the end in a game all about choice and making it YOUR character i think isn't right.
Yeah have one of the endings be one of self sacrfice, or multiple... but also give us the option to resolve the tear without killing ourselves

[LPPrince]

Exactly. If I would've known back before Mass 1 that the end of the trilogy was gonna be my character's forced death, and not just that but my character that didn't really look like my character because they couldn't import his face so I was forced to use Vandershep, then I would have never bothered. That was the worst because it was years and hundreds of dollars put into it by me for an ending I never asked for(insert Jensen joke).

If I knew DA2 was gonna end the way it did, yet again- would not have bothered.

If I'm given the choice to create a character, possibly formulate a backstory for them, or at least have enough power to make them truly feel like my own creation, I want them to have their cake and eat it too, or at least feel that way, even if you could argue otherwise.

I liked that about Kingdoms of Amalur. Game ends and there's no forced death, no forced sacrifice, nothing like that. Goal is accomplished and yay, keep playing. Skyrim, same deal. Was much happier with those two games than I was with Mass 3 and DA2, the endings being partly why.

[Navasha]

I consider tragic endings pretty dull personally. That said, I don't really consider noble sacrifice as tragic either. If the only way to save the day is personal sacrifice then so be it. Don't have a problem with it.

To me tragic endings are where the protagonist failed, usually miserably. Though even those can be good if very well written. Fallen with Denzel Washington as an example of a well written 'tragic' ending.

Most tragic endings are written just to be dark, cool, or edgy. All of that is relatively boring because they are written so plainly.

Modifié par Navasha, 30 janvier 2014 - 11:38 .

[TheChris92]

Navasha wrote...

I consider tragic endings pretty dull personally. That said, I don't really consider noble sacrifice as tragic either. If the only way to save the day is personal sacrifice then so be it. Don't have a problem with it.

To me tragic endings are where the protagonist failed, usually miserably. Though even those can be good if very well written. Fallen with Denzel Washington as an example of a well written 'tragic' ending.

Most tragic endings are written just to be dark, cool, or edgy. All of that is relatively boring because they are written so plainly.

That's a lot of assumptions there - I got one too. You must not like many games. 
I don't like the mentality some people have that "because you have the ability to make some choices" then suddenly it's your story. Ultimately, you're there for the ride, but you aren't the one making the calls for where to take the story.

Modifié par TheChris92, 30 janvier 2014 - 11:47 .

[Mr.House]

Navasha wrote...

I consider tragic endings pretty dull personally. That said, I don't really consider noble sacrifice as tragic either. If the only way to save the day is personal sacrifice then so be it. Don't have a problem with it.

To me tragic endings are where the protagonist failed, usually miserably. Though even those can be good if very well written. Fallen with Denzel Washington as an example of a well written 'tragic' ending.

Most tragic endings are written just to be dark, cool, or edgy. All of that is relatively boring because they are written so plainly.

[Il Divo]

Mr.House wrote...

There was no happy ending in DAO, the dark ritual ending at best gave you some hope what you did will not bite everyone in the ass, but the game makes it clear you might have made a mistake because you did not want to die which is great, but let's not delude ourselfs that DAo had a dark and happy ending.

"Might have" being the key issue. And given Bioware's track record thus far with importing choices from prior games, I'm not willing to bet that the consequences of the dark ritual will be significant in any sense to mitigate my desire to see my character live.

Basically, unless you want to headcanon bad consequences, the dark ritual works for people who want grim dark about as well as the high end Shepard lives clip for people who wanted Shepard alive.

[Dave of Canada]

LPPrince wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

And when it turns out the old god baby will attack the world, is it still a happy ending?

Thats one- an assumption and two- it doesn't affect the ending in the context of DAO. Still ends happily.

Meta-gaming would make it a tragic ending. Hindsight is 20/20.

It may be an assumption but the Dark Ritual is a choice to ignore the consequences of killing the Archdemon, if choosing to ignore your Warden's death results in a happily-ever-after then I'm going to flip my ****.

Wouldn't be too surprised though, look at how they handled "consequences" in ME3.

Navasha wrote...

Most tragic endings are written just to be dark, cool, or edgy. All of that is relatively boring because they are written so plainly.

Thanks for the laugh.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 31 janvier 2014 - 12:02 .

[Fast Jimmy]

LPPrince wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

And when it turns out the old god baby will attack the world, is it still a happy ending?

Thats one- an assumption and two- it doesn't affect the ending in the context of DAO. Still ends happily.

Meta-gaming would make it a tragic ending. Hindsight is 20/20.

The OGB won't play out that way. Save Import limitations practically dictate it - the OGB cannot pose a threat to the world that couldn't exist otherwise. Unless that threat can be addressed and eliminated with a codex, cameo or side quest, which means it wasn't that great of a threat after all.

[SgtSteel91]

Or Morrigan finds some other method to conceive a child as special as one with the soul of an Old God.

[Luiren]

I'd rather my Inquisitor gets it than have my mabari die. (If we get one that is.) Fable 2 had me cutting onions is all I'm saying.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

And when it turns out the old god baby will attack the world, is it still a happy ending?

Thats one- an assumption and two- it doesn't affect the ending in the context of DAO. Still ends happily.

Meta-gaming would make it a tragic ending. Hindsight is 20/20.

The OGB won't play out that way. Save Import limitations practically dictate it - the OGB cannot pose a threat to the world that couldn't exist otherwise. Unless that threat can be addressed and eliminated with a codex, cameo or side quest, which means it wasn't that great of a threat after all.

Actually Gaider did say that for those who decided to go through with the ritual, would see the consequences of their actions in a major way. So it would seem that he is planning something big for that plot point.
He also said that those who decided not to do the ritual, would not recieve any additional content, since he did not feel that inaction should bring additional "rewards".

[Dave of Canada]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The OGB won't play out that way. Save Import limitations practically dictate it - the OGB cannot pose a threat to the world that couldn't exist otherwise. Unless that threat can be addressed and eliminated with a codex, cameo or side quest, which means it wasn't that great of a threat after all.

Hypothetically, it could be consequential in the game itself but inconsequential to the world as a whole. For example, an entire area wiped out because of it and you lose all those soldiers but future games just mention it as the "massacre that happened at X place" through background dialogue or people who were there.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 31 janvier 2014 - 12:52 .

[Fast Jimmy]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

And when it turns out the old god baby will attack the world, is it still a happy ending?

Thats one- an assumption and two- it doesn't affect the ending in the context of DAO. Still ends happily.

Meta-gaming would make it a tragic ending. Hindsight is 20/20.

The OGB won't play out that way. Save Import limitations practically dictate it - the OGB cannot pose a threat to the world that couldn't exist otherwise. Unless that threat can be addressed and eliminated with a codex, cameo or side quest, which means it wasn't that great of a threat after all.

Actually Gaider did say that for those who decided to go through with the ritual, would see the consequences of their actions in a major way. So it would seem that he is planning something big for that plot point.
He also said that those who decided not to do the ritual, would not recieve any additional content, since he did not feel that inaction should bring additional "rewards".

That is not what he said. If I had the time to research it, I'd show where he says it is important that they have content for both choices, otherwise players will feel slighted. Think about what you just stated - the players who let their character die are going to see no extra content or results for that in a future game. Doesn't that seem like the biggest kick in the teeth imaginable.

I'd request that you link a source where Gaider says there would be no content for those that performed the Ultimate Sacrifice.

[LPPrince]

Luiren wrote...

I'd rather my Inquisitor gets it than have my mabari die. (If we get one that is.) Fable 2 had me cutting onions is all I'm saying.

At least in Fable 2 you have multiple options to bring your dog back to life, one in the main game and one thru one of the DLC areas.

[Fast Jimmy]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The OGB won't play out that way. Save Import limitations practically dictate it - the OGB cannot pose a threat to the world that couldn't exist otherwise. Unless that threat can be addressed and eliminated with a codex, cameo or side quest, which means it wasn't that great of a threat after all.

Hypothetically, it could be consequential in the game itself but inconsequential to the world as a whole. For example, an entire area wiped out because of it and you lose all those soldiers but future games just mention it as the "massacre that happened at X place" through background dialogue or people who were there.

I'd have to see how that would be implemented, but that sounds like very little consequence. A side quest/War Asset. Nothing more.

[Ianamus]

I'd argue that recruiting Loghain, having him kill the archdemon and then having Alistair marry Anora is the "happiest" possible outcome in Origins. Sure Alistair doesn't particularly like you anymore, but everyone you care about survives and there is no baby with the soul of an old god to potentially threaten the world.

Modifié par EJ107, 31 janvier 2014 - 01:03 .

[Luiren]

LPPrince wrote...

Luiren wrote...

I'd rather my Inquisitor gets it than have my mabari die. (If we get one that is.) Fable 2 had me cutting onions is all I'm saying.

At least in Fable 2 you have multiple options to bring your dog back to life, one in the main game and one thru one of the DLC areas.

Fair enough.