262 réponses à ce sujet

[Knight of Dane]

KiwiQuiche wrote...
@Dane- you mean the 'dramatic walk outta an explosion" trend? And if you compare it with female characters on covers very rarely do you find any that are completely covered/arms/in stances like that.

Heck, with ME1 I just bought it 'cause it was cheap- then I realized you could play as a woman. I sure as heck would of bought it a lot earlier if I knew you could pick genders.

Or just "Walk towards the audience like a badass meathead"

I don't think the "almost naked woman" trend is too big with covers (they do want to sell games to mothers buying them as gifts) but there are some.






Usually it's not that bad though.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 29 janvier 2014 - 11:38 .

[Firky]

Well, there is this.

http://www.gamasutra...ty_in_games.php

I may be incorrect but from memory, DG talked in here somewhere about female protag and advertising, and I recall his stats about women playing being closer to 30% and female protags chosen overall being higher than that.

(That may be wrong, that's how I recall it.)

He also makes a good case for why that shouldn't matter, anyways.

(If I recall correctly.)

Edit: Maybe listen from 13.30.

Modifié par Firky, 29 janvier 2014 - 11:41 .

[KiwiQuiche]

I love that Tomb Raider Underworld cover where you can't even see her face.

Yes, at least we do have a small amount of female protags who actually look like they can kick ass rather than stand around with ass-shots.Though I really don't get the 'ominous stance' trend.

But yeah, I do laugh when people claim that every other company should try to reach Bioware's 'totally equal' standard in regards to the sexes. lol

[Star fury]

Starsyn wrote...

Questionable source? Pray tell, how is the ESA questionable? Enlighten me, O Wise One. Tell me the credible source. Teach me your ways. Show me your reasoning as to why you believe ESA is crap and your ancient sources from a different game series are oh so reliable.

Yes, I'm feeling snarky today.  

I was attacking your apparent logic. You're quick to be insulted this morning.  I never called you a pig, nor tried to imply as such. That was your reasoning, correct? I can quote you from earlier in the thread if you'd like.

The OP as well as I'm concerned because we'd like to actually see our gender in the ads. Like most men get to all the time.  See, while I agree that more games should have female protagonists, shouldn't we at least start by having a trailer with a game that has already featured female protagonists?

What is ESA? You wanna a credible source of info about Bioware games? It's Bioware. You're welcome. And it's actually evening in my timezone. 

When girls would make a more sizable chunk of Bioware audience, only then they gonna provide more attention to them.

Why do you even care about stupid marketing anyway? Especially **** marketing by EA/Bioware. I mean "press button and AWESOME happens". Or "think like a general, fight like a spartan".

Modifié par Star fury, 29 janvier 2014 - 11:45 .

[Grieving Natashina]

Thank you Firky!! I'll watch it in a little while. I didn't sleep worth a damn, so I'm a little cross-eyed.

[KiwiQuiche]

Star fury wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

Questionable source? Pray tell, how is the ESA questionable? Enlighten me, O Wise One. Tell me the credible source. Teach me your ways. Show me your reasoning as to why you believe ESA is crap and your ancient sources from a different game series are oh so reliable.

Yes, I'm feeling snarky today.  

I was attacking your apparent logic. You're quick to be insulted this morning.  I never called you a pig, nor tried to imply as such. That was your reasoning, correct? I can quote you from earlier in the thread if you'd like.

The OP as well as I'm concerned because we'd like to actually see our gender in the ads. Like most men get to all the time.  See, while I agree that more games should have female protagonists, shouldn't we at least start by having a trailer with a game that has already featured female protagonists?

What is ESA? You wanna a credible source of info about Bioware games? It's Bioware. You're welcome. And it's actually evening in my timezone. 

When girls would make a more sizable chunk of Bioware audience, only then they gonna provide more attention to them.

Why do you even care so much about stupid marketing anyway? Especially **** marketing by EA. I mean "press button and AWESOME happens". Or "think like a general, fight like a spartan".

Would you shut your ass up?

It seems you're just acting dickish for argument sake what with your 'lol who cares about so-called minorities' Maybe the reason they are apparent minorities is because of crap like this where we have to argue, complain and 'justify' for ages just to get a female lead in marketing while white males get crammed in left right and centre with nary a remark and then have people like you act as if we're being self-righteous and stupid for wanting more of a variety?

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 29 janvier 2014 - 11:48 .

[Firky]

OK. So in that gamasutra thing, he says at 16'40'' that optional telemetry, from millions of samples, suggested 30% female. (And I think that might be female protagonist, not female player. I don't know where I got the idea about female player percentage was in here.)

Also 24% of players did a gay romance. (One companion character?)

Edit; Oh, OK. And, start listening at 19'30'' for the very relevant discussion about advertising and inclusivity and intended audience etc. I thought I recalled this.

(Also, DG is a really clever guy and an excellent speaker. I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed this when I watched it a while ago.)

Modifié par Firky, 29 janvier 2014 - 11:50 .

[Grieving Natashina]

Star,

First off, you had zero information regarding female players of Dragon Age. Zip, zlich, nada. BioWare isn't telling you jack, but the vid that Firky linked will.

You talked about Mass Effect 2, based on information from 3-4 years ago. Secondly, that little fact about the 18% of players rolling up femSheps during that game has nothing to due with gender. Third, I notice you conveniently forgot to add any numbers from Mass Effect 3.

What is the ESA? Since you're too lazy to even look at what I linked earlier, I'll make this really easy on you. This is from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia....are_Association

The Entertainment Software Association (ESA) is the trade association of the video game industry in the United States. It was formed in April 1994 as the Interactive Digital Software Association (IDSA) and renamed on July 16, 2003. It is based in Washington, D.C..[1][2]

Most of the top publishers in the gaming world (or their American subsidiaries) are members of ESA, including Capcom, Disney Interactive Studios, Electronic Arts, Konami, Microsoft, Namco Bandai Games, Nintendo, Sega, Sony Computer Entertainment, Square Enix, Take-Two Interactive, Ubisoft and Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment.

The ESA’s policy is based by member companies serving on the ESA’s three Working Groups:[3]
Intellectual Property Working Group

Public Policy Committee
Public Relations Working Group

Oh and FYI? EA is on that list too, which means that the ESA collects information about their players as well.

345 Games
505 Games
Capcom
Deep Silver
DeNA
Disney Interactive Studios
Electronic Arts
Epic Games
gloops International Inc.
GREE International, Inc.
Konami
Level-5
Little Orbit
Mad Catz Interactive, Inc.
Microsoft
Namco Bandai Games
Natsume
NetDragon Websoft Inc.
Nexon America, Inc.
Nintendo
Nival America
Perfect World Entertainment
Rubicon Organization
Sega
Slang
Sony Computer Entertainment
Sony Online Entertainment
Square Enix
Take-Two Interactive
Tecmo Koei America Corporation
Trion Worlds, Inc.
Ubisoft
Wargaming
Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment
Xseed Games

By the way, those little "marketing" things you are talking about? Yeah, I never heard them from any advertising on TV or on the various net trailers I watched. I never knew about those comments until I started reading the threads a few months back. And I never took those as truly "ads," more like the developers trying to have some fun with their fans.

As a final note, why are you even in the thread at all?  Does the fact that some gamers requesting ladies in some of Inquisition's trailers bother you so much that you're getting frustrated?  Why don't you go grab some air, and just retreat from the thread for a few.  You said your peace; you don't see the point.  We get that, no need to belabor the point.  

Modifié par Starsyn, 29 janvier 2014 - 11:55 .

[Star fury]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

Questionable source? Pray tell, how is the ESA questionable? Enlighten me, O Wise One. Tell me the credible source. Teach me your ways. Show me your reasoning as to why you believe ESA is crap and your ancient sources from a different game series are oh so reliable.

Yes, I'm feeling snarky today.  

I was attacking your apparent logic. You're quick to be insulted this morning.  I never called you a pig, nor tried to imply as such. That was your reasoning, correct? I can quote you from earlier in the thread if you'd like.

The OP as well as I'm concerned because we'd like to actually see our gender in the ads. Like most men get to all the time.  See, while I agree that more games should have female protagonists, shouldn't we at least start by having a trailer with a game that has already featured female protagonists?

What is ESA? You wanna a credible source of info about Bioware games? It's Bioware. You're welcome. And it's actually evening in my timezone. 

When girls would make a more sizable chunk of Bioware audience, only then they gonna provide more attention to them.

Why do you even care so much about stupid marketing anyway? Especially **** marketing by EA. I mean "press button and AWESOME happens". Or "think like a general, fight like a spartan".

Would you shut your ass up?

It seems you're just acting dickish for argument sake what with your 'lol who cares about so-called minorities' Maybe the reason they are apparent minorities is because of crap like this where we have to argue, complain and 'justify' for ages just to get a female lead in marketing while white males get crammed in left right and centre with nary a remark and then have people like you act as if we're being self-righteous and stupid for wanting more of a variety?

You are a strong independent woman, LMAO. 

[KiwiQuiche]

Star fury wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

Questionable source? Pray tell, how is the ESA questionable? Enlighten me, O Wise One. Tell me the credible source. Teach me your ways. Show me your reasoning as to why you believe ESA is crap and your ancient sources from a different game series are oh so reliable.

Yes, I'm feeling snarky today.  

I was attacking your apparent logic. You're quick to be insulted this morning.  I never called you a pig, nor tried to imply as such. That was your reasoning, correct? I can quote you from earlier in the thread if you'd like.

The OP as well as I'm concerned because we'd like to actually see our gender in the ads. Like most men get to all the time.  See, while I agree that more games should have female protagonists, shouldn't we at least start by having a trailer with a game that has already featured female protagonists?

What is ESA? You wanna a credible source of info about Bioware games? It's Bioware. You're welcome. And it's actually evening in my timezone. 

When girls would make a more sizable chunk of Bioware audience, only then they gonna provide more attention to them.

Why do you even care so much about stupid marketing anyway? Especially **** marketing by EA. I mean "press button and AWESOME happens". Or "think like a general, fight like a spartan".

Would you shut your ass up?

It seems you're just acting dickish for argument sake what with your 'lol who cares about so-called minorities' Maybe the reason they are apparent minorities is because of crap like this where we have to argue, complain and 'justify' for ages just to get a female lead in marketing while white males get crammed in left right and centre with nary a remark and then have people like you act as if we're being self-righteous and stupid for wanting more of a variety?

You are a strong independent woman, LMAO. 

I love the way you totally ignored the rest of my comment. Thanks for proving my point, though.

[Firky]

Also at 25'00''. "This is what sells."

http://www.gamasutra...ty_in_games.php

Female protags on boxes and lengthy discussion of marketability etc.

Modifié par Firky, 29 janvier 2014 - 11:58 .

[Star fury]

Starsyn wrote...

Star,

First off, you had zero information regarding female players of Dragon Age. Zip, zlich, nada. BioWare isn't telling you jack, but the vid that Firky linked will.

You talked about Mass Effect 2, based on information from 3-4 years ago. Secondly, that little fact about the 18% of players rolling up femSheps during that game has nothing to due with gender. Third, I notice you conveniently forgot to add any numbers from Mass Effect 3.

What is the ESA? Since you're too lazy to even look at what I linked earlier, I'll make this really easy on you. This is from wikipedia:

The Entertainment Software Association (ESA) is the trade association of the video game industry in the United States. It was formed in April 1994 as the Interactive Digital Software Association (IDSA) and renamed on July 16, 2003. It is based in Washington, D.C..[1][2]

Most of the top publishers in the gaming world (or their American subsidiaries) are members of ESA, including Capcom, Disney Interactive Studios, Electronic Arts, Konami, Microsoft, Namco Bandai Games, Nintendo, Sega, Sony Computer Entertainment, Square Enix, Take-Two Interactive, Ubisoft and Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment.

The ESA’s policy is based by member companies serving on the ESA’s three Working Groups:[3]
Intellectual Property Working Group

Public Policy Committee
Public Relations Working Group

Oh and FYI? EA is on that list too, which means that the ESA collects information about their players as well.

345 Games
505 Games
Capcom
Deep Silver
DeNA
Disney Interactive Studios
Electronic Arts
Epic Games
gloops International Inc.
GREE International, Inc.
Konami
Level-5
Little Orbit
Mad Catz Interactive, Inc.
Microsoft
Namco Bandai Games
Natsume
NetDragon Websoft Inc.
Nexon America, Inc.
Nintendo
Nival America
Perfect World Entertainment
Rubicon Organization
Sega
Slang
Sony Computer Entertainment
Sony Online Entertainment
Square Enix
Take-Two Interactive
Tecmo Koei America Corporation
Trion Worlds, Inc.
Ubisoft
Wargaming
Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment
Xseed Games

By the way, those little "marketing" things you are talking about? Yeah, I never heard them from any advertising on TV or on the various net trailers I watched. I never knew about those comments until I started reading the threads a few months back. And I never took those as truly "ads," more like the developers trying to have some fun with their fans.

I don't recall saying that I have any info about "female players of Dragon Age" or ME3 for that matter. Don't understand why are you so aggressive tbh.  

Ah, good, so you provided some info about your beloved ESA. Googled some stuff from wikipedia, most probably. So, how exactly an average number of female gamers in hundreds of games have a correlation with their number in specific Bioware games?

Modifié par Star fury, 29 janvier 2014 - 12:07 .

[Star fury]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Star fury wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

Questionable source? Pray tell, how is the ESA questionable? Enlighten me, O Wise One. Tell me the credible source. Teach me your ways. Show me your reasoning as to why you believe ESA is crap and your ancient sources from a different game series are oh so reliable.

Yes, I'm feeling snarky today.  

I was attacking your apparent logic. You're quick to be insulted this morning.  I never called you a pig, nor tried to imply as such. That was your reasoning, correct? I can quote you from earlier in the thread if you'd like.

The OP as well as I'm concerned because we'd like to actually see our gender in the ads. Like most men get to all the time.  See, while I agree that more games should have female protagonists, shouldn't we at least start by having a trailer with a game that has already featured female protagonists?

What is ESA? You wanna a credible source of info about Bioware games? It's Bioware. You're welcome. And it's actually evening in my timezone. 

When girls would make a more sizable chunk of Bioware audience, only then they gonna provide more attention to them.

Why do you even care so much about stupid marketing anyway? Especially **** marketing by EA. I mean "press button and AWESOME happens". Or "think like a general, fight like a spartan".

Would you shut your ass up?

It seems you're just acting dickish for argument sake what with your 'lol who cares about so-called minorities' Maybe the reason they are apparent minorities is because of crap like this where we have to argue, complain and 'justify' for ages just to get a female lead in marketing while white males get crammed in left right and centre with nary a remark and then have people like you act as if we're being self-righteous and stupid for wanting more of a variety?

You are a strong independent woman, LMAO. 

I love the way you totally ignored the rest of my comment. Thanks for proving my point, though.

Why, I completely agree with you on your rant.

[Tinu]

People really missed the option of being able to chose a race in DA2. I hope they promote the races in a/the trailer. They could do 2 male and 2 female.

[Grieving Natashina]

@Star You kept using the numbers from Mass Effect 2 over and over again to prove why there wouldn't be a need to advertise with a woman in the trailers for Inquistion.  Mass Effect isn't DA and this isn't 2010 or 2011.

I'm not being aggressive, just direct. Someone else told you to shut up, remember?  I'll admit to some snark, but I don't get agressive on game forums.  Trust me, I've dealt with much more narrow-minded and sexists morons in gaming than you would ever want to be.  I don't even think you're all that narrow-minded or sexist.  This is one of those instances where tone might be lost in text, so I'll bare that in mind as I type.

My point was that 40-45% of all gamers, everywhere, are women. That's not just a tiny minority, as I have seen you claim outright. BioWare is an AAA company that wants all the revenue they can get. So, again, why would they exclude nearly half of all people that play games by never ever showing them in the official advertising?

Now you're just being contrary for the sake of it. You didn't even read the link I sent you to ESA either. So, here's the direct link. 

http://www.theesa.com/

Modifié par Starsyn, 29 janvier 2014 - 12:20 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

IDK, wouldn't showing a female Inquisitor only in love scenes for marketing be a bit odd problematic?

Modifié par CrustyBot, 29 janvier 2014 - 12:13 .

[Grieving Natashina]

CrustyBot wrote...

IDK, wouldn't showing a female Inquisitor only in love scenes for marketing be a bit odd problematic?

Only in love scenes?  I hope that wasn't addressed to me.  I want to see some good ol' fashioned ass kicking in the trailers by a lady.  At least in one trailer.  

Otherwise, I'm a little confused.  Would you please elaborate?

Modifié par Starsyn, 29 janvier 2014 - 12:17 .

[Star fury]

Starsyn wrote...

My point was that 40-45% of all gamers, everywhere, are women. That's not just a tiny minority, as I have seen you claim outright. BioWare is an AAA company that wants all the revenue they can get. So, again, why would they exclude nearly half of all people that play games by never ever showing them in the offical advertising?

So you think that 45% of ME3 and DA players are women, right? Then why EAware don't target them more, because people go to forums and complain about marketing? 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

CrustyBot wrote...

IDK, wouldn't showing a female Inquisitor only in love scenes for marketing be a bit odd problematic?

A female character can't be seen swinging a sword or raining down magic on enemies?

[Zazzerka]

It was a reference to the title, God.

[Grieving Natashina]

Star fury wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

My point was that 40-45% of all gamers, everywhere, are women. That's not just a tiny minority, as I have seen you claim outright. BioWare is an AAA company that wants all the revenue they can get. So, again, why would they exclude nearly half of all people that play games by never ever showing them in the offical advertising?

So you think that 45% of ME3 and DA players are women, right? Then why EAware don't target them more, because people go to forums and complain about marketing? 

Oh, so advertising should be only for existing players, right?  No need to grab for more, they have enough! 

Give me a break.  Do you have any clue how dumb that sounds? Part of the point of ads was to get as many people to buy your product as possible, especially among gender neutral markets (like the DA series.)

Watch this video that was linked earlier: http://www.gamasutra...ty_in_games.php

There is several good reasons as to why.

If you don't like the topic, then quit acting like a jerk and find something else better to do.  Is that so hard?

[Firky]

Star fury wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

My point was that 40-45% of all gamers, everywhere, are women. That's not just a tiny minority, as I have seen you claim outright. BioWare is an AAA company that wants all the revenue they can get. So, again, why would they exclude nearly half of all people that play games by never ever showing them in the offical advertising?

So you think that 45% of ME3 and DA players are women, right? Then why EAware don't target them more, because people go to forums and complain about marketing? 

Brilliant. Those two questions pretty much summarise an hour of DG talking authoritatively on that gamasutra GDC thing. 

Night all.

[Grieving Natashina]

Night Firky and thanks again for that!

[Zazzerka]

I'll tell you what, though - more than 45% of the girls in my English class laughed at me for playing Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 from my external hard drive during the breaks.

[JerZey CJ]

MevenSelas wrote...

And have her be a woman of color.

So...a qunari?