262 réponses à ce sujet

[Firky]

Starsyn wrote...

Night Firky and thanks again for that!

Welcome.
But thank DG for such an inspiring talk. (I was hanging off every word the first time.)

[Fast Jimmy]

I would like then to not show anything about the Inquisitor at all.

The trailers released this summer were great at that - obscuring the Inquisitor such that no details are visible - including race, color and gender. Making videos that market a set character when the game is BUILT on giving the player choice in appearance and characterization is silly. It's actually counterproductive to exactly what Bioware is setting out do.

[Seboist]

Starsyn wrote...

@Star You kept using the numbers from Mass Effect 2 over and over again to prove why there wouldn't be a need to advertise with a woman in the trailers for Inquistion.  Mass Effect isn't DA and this isn't 2010 or 2011.

I'm not being aggressive, just direct. Someone else told you to shut up, remember?  I'll admit to some snark, but I don't get agressive on game forums.  Trust me, I've dealt with much more narrow-minded and sexists morons in gaming than you would ever want to be.  I don't even think you're all that narrow-minded or sexist.  This is one of those instances where tone might be lost in text, so I'll bare that in mind as I type.

My point was that 40-45% of all gamers, everywhere, are women. That's not just a tiny minority, as I have seen you claim outright. BioWare is an AAA company that wants all the revenue they can get. So, again, why would they exclude nearly half of all people that play games by never ever showing them in the official advertising?

Now you're just being contrary for the sake of it. You didn't even read the link I sent you to ESA either. So, here's the direct link. 

http://www.theesa.com/

Which is a flat out lie(like the claim that 1 in 4 women are "raped") as that bogus stat lumps in middle age soccer moms who only play crap like farmville as "gamers".  If that statistic was accurate then I would have seen some actual female gamers in the lengthy line I was in to get a PS4 instead of there only being girlfriends/wives and mothers accompanying their males.

Majority of actual gamers are male and  EA's own data for ME3 had femshep only being played by 18% of playerbase(which includes males who played as her), so it's a no brainer that the male inquisiter should be the focus of marketting.

[chuckwells62]

Star fury wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

Source for that number, please.  Sorry, I get skeptical when I start seeing people toss out percentages.  I haven't seen anything like that for Dragon Age.  I have, however, seen a lot of older threads asking why so many women play the Dragon Age games.

I thought it was a well-known info. It is Bioware data.

Starsyn wrote...
I
haven't found any solid numbers on that myself.  However, considering
that some of the lead writers are women (hi Mary!), it would be idiotic
to leave women behind in marketing.  Also, this article shows that they
are actually thinking more and more about the perspective of women in
games:

http://kotaku.com/59...creepy-sex-plot

Besides,
even some of the guys have mentioned that they would like a lady to see
as well.  I think that most of the thread is certainly sick of the SWM
trailers we keep seeing all over the place.

Businesses, and Bioware with EA are businesses, need something tangible, not sentiments like 'some of the lead writers are women (hi Mary!), it would be idiotic
to leave women behind in marketing."

I enjoyed seeing those statistics; so thanks! I wish that I could remember how many times I played through ME2. I know that it was over a dozen times, but beyond that mental round off - - - who knows? I have played Dragon Age: Origins at least a couple of dozen times.

[Sidney]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I would like then to not show anything about the Inquisitor at all.

The trailers released this summer were great at that - obscuring the Inquisitor such that no details are visible - including race, color and gender. Making videos that market a set character when the game is BUILT on giving the player choice in appearance and characterization is silly. It's actually counterproductive to exactly what Bioware is setting out do.

80%, if I recall right, use the default character choice. Marketing is about getting the most bang for your buck. You, me and anyone on these forums knows you have a character creator. The ads aren't for us, it is for the rest of the world and if the marketing department thinks having a "face" for the game will help sell it....goodie for them. Don't care if they use the male human or female nug to accomplish that feat.

[Fast Jimmy]

I completely disagree.

People who know about the character creator don't need to hear about it. Think of all the people who said they didn't even know they could play a female in either game. Or that there were multiple races in DA:O. This is because the feature wasn't advertised.

They shouldn't have a default character in the creation process, either. They should have a few presets for those who don't want to to through the process, but the starting choice of any of these presets should be randomized, such that if five people fired up the game and busts started mashing the button through the character creation, they would come out with a different race, gender and appearance.

[chuckwells62]

I generally create female lead characters as often as I play males. I have FemSheps and Lady Hawkes that were personal favorites.

[Sidney]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I completely disagree.

People who know about the character creator don't need to hear about it. Think of all the people who said they didn't even know they could play a female in either game. Or that there were multiple races in DA:O. This is because the feature wasn't advertised.

They shouldn't have a default character in the creation process, either. They should have a few presets for those who don't want to to through the process, but the starting choice of any of these presets should be randomized, such that if five people fired up the game and busts started mashing the button through the character creation, they would come out with a different race, gender and appearance.

Who are all these poor lost souls that didn't know about gender selection...and who gave a furry rats hind end?

Obviously most players don't care about picking their hairstyle and brow depth. They just want to play why toss a random character out there? For people who care, and god only knows why people care in games like this, being a dwarf is the end all and be all...for most people it is going to likely be more annoying than anything because who wants to play as someone short and fat? I never play as the default, I never even usually play as the solider/warrior class type option...but that is me and I don't expect marketing to cater to my tastes.

[Absafraginlootly]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I would like then to not show anything about the Inquisitor at all.

The trailers released this summer were great at that - obscuring the Inquisitor such that no details are visible - including race, color and gender. Making videos that market a set character when the game is BUILT on giving the player choice in appearance and characterization is silly. It's actually counterproductive to exactly what Bioware is setting out do.

This.

[Grieving Natashina]

Seboist wrote...



Which is a flat out lie(like the claim that 1 in 4 women are "raped") as that bogus stat lumps in middle age soccer moms who only play crap like farmville as "gamers".  If that statistic was accurate then I would have seen some actual female gamers in the lengthy line I was in to get a PS4 instead of there only being girlfriends/wives and mothers accompanying their males.

It's not a "flat out lie" just because you disagree with it.  So those women surveyed don't count?  That's pretty damned narrow minded and also wrong.  So men and women go shopping together for games.  And?  I'm a PC gamer and my husband bought the PS4.  I went down to the store with him.  Simply assuming that those laides were only there because their guys wanted to play a PS4 is really cute.

Majority of actual gamers are male and  EA's own data for ME3 had femshep only being played by 18% of playerbase(which includes males who played as her), so it's a no brainer that the male inquisiter should be the focus of marketting.

Those numbers were for Mass Effect 2, and you truly believe that all women only play female characters?  Welcome to the 21st Century, women play opposite gendered heroes.  

After careful listening to a very educational video that was linked earlier, David Gaider says that 30% of all Dragon Age players are female.  Not the amount of those that roll up female characters, but the amount of women total. That's a third of the players.

Modifié par Starsyn, 29 janvier 2014 - 01:39 .

[Steelcan]

Once again, when a Female Character becomes equally as profitable as a male character you will see a lot more ads featuring female customization options but not before.


I'm not going to comment on whether that is "right" or not because its pretty irrelevant

Modifié par Steelcan, 29 janvier 2014 - 01:12 .

[Absafraginlootly]

Sidney wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I completely disagree.

People who know about the character creator don't need to hear about it. Think of all the people who said they didn't even know they could play a female in either game. Or that there were multiple races in DA:O. This is because the feature wasn't advertised.

They shouldn't have a default character in the creation process, either. They should have a few presets for those who don't want to to through the process, but the starting choice of any of these presets should be randomized, such that if five people fired up the game and busts started mashing the button through the character creation, they would come out with a different race, gender and appearance.

Who are all these poor lost souls that didn't know about gender selection...and who gave a furry rats hind end?

Obviously most players don't care about picking their hairstyle and brow depth. They just want to play why toss a random character out there? For people who care, and god only knows why people care in games like this, being a dwarf is the end all and be all...for most people it is going to likely be more annoying than anything because who wants to play as someone short and fat? I never play as the default, I never even usually play as the solider/warrior class type option...but that is me and I don't expect marketing to cater to my tastes.

I was one, I didn't know about gender selection or character customization in mass effect and thus didn't end up buying for a long time - and then only after I had played dragon age, realized it was the same company, and gave it a closer look.

I would have bought mass effect closer to the release date as opposed to long after the 2nd game came out if I had known.

[OdanUrr]

Steelcan wrote...

Once again, when a Female Character becomes equally as profitable as a male character you will see a lot more ads featuring female customization options but not before that happens.

[Steelcan]

OdanUrr wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Once again, when a Female Character becomes equally as profitable as a male character you will see a lot more ads featuring female customization options but not before that happens.

*snip*

That' a long standing franchise with a history of of female protagonists, it also doesn't feature gender customization

[OdanUrr]

Steelcan wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Once again, when a Female Character becomes equally as profitable as a male character you will see a lot more ads featuring female customization options but not before that happens.

*snip*

That' a long standing franchise with a history of of female protagonists, it also doesn't feature gender customization

True, but the point remains that female characters can still drive franchises. Although, we have that "incident" where most publishers wanted to change the protagonist of Remember Me into a male.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Pitching your game advertising to men because mostly men buy you game has always struck me as incredibly short-sighted. Surely if 70% of your players are male, that means there's an untapped female market out there that you should be going after? It's not as though Dragon Age is inherently unappealing to women.

[Sanunes]

OdanUrr wrote...

True, but the point remains that female characters can still drive franchises. Although, we have that "incident" where most publishers wanted to change the protagonist of Remember Me into a male.

Honestly, good games drive good franchises.

Yeah, but the problem with Remember Me is it is not considered succesful, so I am pretty sure people in the boardrooms are going to say "the reason why it failed is because they didn't listen to us and make the character female".  

I have always been a fan of what Fast Jimmy is saying and that is not have a defined protagonist on the cover.

[Sanunes]

Andrastee wrote...

Pitching your game advertising to men because mostly men buy you game has always struck me as incredibly short-sighted. Surely if 70% of your players are male, that means there's an untapped female market out there that you should be going after? It's not as though Dragon Age is inherently unappealing to women.

The thing is with using any numbers in arguements is we really don't have all the numbers, BioWare says that 20% of the characters created are female, but that one study says that 45% of gamers are female.  The problem is that that doesn't really give us any real information besides a few scraps.  Such as BioWare didn't say how many of the players were female and that study doesn't tell us what style of games that group of female players play.

[OdanUrr]

Sanunes wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

True, but the point remains that female characters can still drive franchises. Although, we have that "incident" where most publishers wanted to change the protagonist of Remember Me into a male.

Honestly, good games drive good franchises.

Yeah, but the problem with Remember Me is it is not considered succesful, so I am pretty sure people in the boardrooms are going to say "the reason why it failed is because they didn't listen to us and make the character female".  

I have always been a fan of what Fast Jimmy is saying and that is not have a defined protagonist on the cover.

Well, to be fair, I didn't mention Remember Me as an example of a successful franchise but of one with a female protagonist.

[Steelcan]

OdanUrr wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Once again, when a Female Character becomes equally as profitable as a male character you will see a lot more ads featuring female customization options but not before that happens.

*snip*

That' a long standing franchise with a history of of female protagonists, it also doesn't feature gender customization

True, but the point remains that female characters can still drive franchises. Although, we have that "incident" where most publishers wanted to change the protagonist of Remember Me into a male.

Only varey rarely can they, Tomb Raider is an exception of course, male PCs are simply a safer bet financially, games with male PCs do better because the target audience is predominantly male.

Modifié par Steelcan, 29 janvier 2014 - 01:40 .

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm not asking for a female on the box. I would like to see some non-human ladies in the trailers. I feel that would give viewers a chance to see that multiple races are back and to give some gender diversity in the trailers as well. As far as the box art, I'd rather see another stylized dragon-type logo. No protagonist on the cover needed.

[Steelcan]

Starsyn wrote...

I'm not asking for a female on the box. I would like to see some non-human ladies in the trailers. I feel that would give viewers a chance to see that multiple races are back and to give some gender diversity in the trailers as well. As far as the box art, I'd rather see another stylized dragon-type logo. No protagonist on the cover needed.

I'd be willing to bet that most people who really care about that already know about it.  Advertising is meant to draw in people who are unfamiliar with the series.

Fans of BioWare games and Fantasy Games in general have probably kept up on news for DA:I, there will certainly be the odd one who gave up after Origins and sees an ad and thinks "hmmm maybe I can look into this" but most will already know about it.

[Fast Jimmy]

OdanUrr wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Once again, when a Female Character becomes equally as profitable as a male character you will see a lot more ads featuring female customization options but not before that happens.

For the record, the Tomb Raider reboot did not meet the publisher's sales expectations and the series is possibly in limbo because of it. 

Unrealistic publisher expectations aside, it still isn't (apparently) an immediate go-to example of a female protag cashing in. 

[d-boy15]

Marketing is not about equality...

[Fast Jimmy]

Who are all these poor lost souls that didn't know about gender selection...and who gave a furry rats hind end?

Obviously most players don't care about picking their hairstyle and brow depth. They just want to play why toss a random character out there? For people who care, and god only knows why people care in games like this, being a dwarf is the end all and be all...for most people it is going to likely be more annoying than anything because who wants to play as someone short and fat? I never play as the default, I never even usually play as the solider/warrior class type option...but that is me and I don't expect marketing to cater to my tastes. 

Assuming people don't go out of their way to educate themselves on features they are given no indicator to think even exist are somehow intentionally doing so is silly.

Bioware as a company invests millions in making systems that let people play games with different appearances, genders, sexual orientations, play styles, plot choices and outcomes. Yet they spend practically zero on mass market advertising that let's players unfamiliar with the game, Bioware or RPGs in general about this. Instead, they make CoD-type trailers featuring set protagonists who the player shouldn't be encouraged to even use because it winds up creating a SMALLER return on Bioware's financial investment in such systems.

That's just laughably stupid, honestly. Advertise what you are doing and how you are different in he industry. Don't market your game as something it wasn't intended to be, especially when such marketing doesn't (at all) play to your strengths.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 29 janvier 2014 - 01:58 .