700 réponses à ce sujet

[keightdee]

Nefla wrote...

keightdee wrote...
Speaking of "wouldn't it be nice if ..." characters, wouldn't it be nice if Sebastian returned?

Siiigh. So nice.

Yes! Especially if he and Hawke decided to drop the "chaste" out of their marriage and had some babies

Personally, I think he's juuust the right candidate to host a Spirit of Vengeance.

[Lulupab]

keightdee wrote...

Nefla wrote...

keightdee wrote...
Speaking of "wouldn't it be nice if ..." characters, wouldn't it be nice if Sebastian returned?

Siiigh. So nice.

Yes! Especially if he and Hawke decided to drop the "chaste" out of their marriage and had some babies

Personally, I think he's juuust the right candidate to host a Spirit of Vengeance.

I agree, that will complete his religious freak persona. I didn't like Sebastian much but I didn't hated him, most of the time I ignored him. In a playthrough I decided to take him with me more, which made realzie how brainwashed and unfixable his character is.

EVERYTIME you decide to help Merril or Anders he gets rivalry, every single bloody time. Even accepting their quest itself gains sebasian rivalry. As an example accepting Dissent, a qust in which we help Anders stop ser Alrik's tranquility plan, grants sebastian bloody 15 rivalry, really? Amusing deciding not help Anders and merril grants him friendship, refusing dissent grants 15 friendship.

Attempting to start the quest in which we help feynriel will result in sebastian rivalty +15. Telling marethari you will not kill feynriel grants another 10. 

He is a very good companion in kill all the mages playthroughs, but many players like me are itching to give him what he really deserves, murder knife.

[Parmida]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I don't know this Cullen, but he sounds like a ****.
\\

*horror

And yet you took your sweet time replying to a thread about him, stating he's a ****....  Take your meds, man. 

[The Elder King]

@Rassler: Why do you think he was brainwashed? The fact that he's extremely pro-Chantry doesn't mean he's brainwashed.
He didn't want to help Anders because he (mistakenly) thought that templars wouldn't do what Anders accused Otto of. The reason why he gained rivarly if Hawke stated that he wouldn't kill Fenyerel is because the dialogue was about Fenyrel being possessed. As for why he didn't want to do Fenyerel's quest, I'd guess it's because he didn't think he was right to go to the Fade.
I don't agree a lot with Sebastian's stance (as I don't with Anders' and Fenris') but that doesn't mean he's brainwashed.

[bEVEsthda]

David Gaider wrote...

TristanHawke wrote...
Even if he didn't have a dedicated fan-base, I still think there are justifiable reasons for him to appear again (as a companion or not).

Not if you don't like him. If you don't like him then, even if you don't know what the story is, there's no justifiable reason for him to return. If he did, you can already tell he would be boring no matter how he's written.

This is why I stop paying attention to character discussions fairly early on.

Well, in a way I see D.G.'ers posts as reassuring.
But my perspective is that I don't want any  DA2 character to return. Not because i don't like them, but because I want a new game. And that includes a new cast of characters. I know that we'll not get an all-new cast, and I happen to think that's lamentable.

I get it that some people become fixed on Cullen, but hey, you, you could get fixed on the new character X instead, who won't be in the game if he has to move over to make place for Cullen.

Either make a true follow-up sequel to some selected DA-games (bit like Awakening, but much less rushed and unfinished, and a full standalone game.), or give us a new DA game with a new story and all-new cast. That's my preferences for how this franchise should be.

[Lotion Soronarr]

terdferguson123 wrote...

 For me it comes down to this: 

I don't like or agree with Cullen, I think he is an incredibly radical Templar and is just as much a part of the problem as radical mages such as Anders.

*FACEPALM*

Well, Cassandra did have a movie with her as the protagonist, so she has
a better standing than Cullen. Granted the movie takes place almost two
decades prior to Inquisition so who knows what's changed about her
since then.

The movie also happens to be garbage.

Yeah when I found out about the Jacob "romance" I was seriously appalled
for his fans. Luckily the DA writers have promised to not retcon any of
our previous romances (or have our LIs "cheat" on us).

I think the players should grow some balls. Of course, the PC *MUST* be so uber-awesome that one one would ever cheat on him/her or betray him/her?

[Amirit]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Amirit wrote...


As for loud tears of anti-fans of Cullen - have a mercy! They hoped for a new companion and LI, yet not only they are getting the old one (Cullen is almost confirmed, as we know) but the one they were happy never to see again. And every fangirl's "squee" adds another grain of salt to that wound. All anti-fans can do is cry here "why, BW, why!" in
preparation to inevitable encounter.

You make it seem like his inclusion is due to fan service, and Mr. Gaider has already stated that he wouldn't include him for fan service or making anyone LI because of the fans. If you're talking about returning character, he wouldn't be out of place with Varric (a full-on companion from the last game) and Cassandra. 

And where did you get this from? Out of my sentence "They hoped for a new companion and LI, yet not only they are getting the old one (Cullen is almost confirmed, as we know) but the one they were happy never to see again." ? Sorry if you misread it but I meant exactly what I wrote - we have a returning character and while fans are screaming in happiness, anti-fans are crying. And I think tears of anti-fans are as justified as "squee" from fans. If you look carefully you will find a few upset posts even about Varric's return, and Varric was miles ahead in popularity compare to Cullen.

Yes, DG made it perfectly clear - Cullen will be there for game reasons, not because of fan's request. But he WILL be there. And not only as companion, but as LI - thus occupying one out of 4 precious LI slots. And here is the main difference between him and Varric - again - making anti-fans tears very justified.

As for me I am with bEVEsthda on that one:

bEVEsthda wrote...

But my perspective is that I don't want any  DA2 character to return. Not because i don't like them, but because I want a new game. And that includes a new cast of characters. I know that we'll not get an all-new cast, and I happen to think that's lamentable.

 

Modifié par Amirit, 02 février 2014 - 12:07 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rassler wrote...
I agree, that will complete his religious freak persona. I didn't like Sebastian much but I didn't hated him, most of the time I ignored him. In a playthrough I decided to take him with me more, which made realzie how brainwashed and unfixable his character is.

You heardit here first folks.

Anyone not agreeing with Rasslers viewpoints and  who can't be convinced/turned is "brainwashed and broken/unfixable"

[Lulupab]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Rassler wrote...
I agree, that will complete his religious freak persona. I didn't like Sebastian much but I didn't hated him, most of the time I ignored him. In a playthrough I decided to take him with me more, which made realzie how brainwashed and unfixable his character is.

You heardit here first folks.

Anyone not agreeing with Rasslers viewpoints and  who can't be convinced/turned is "brainwashed and broken/unfixable"

Sebastian is one dimensional in opposed to all other characters who change based on rivalry and friendship. 

Rival Anders accepts the fact he is an abomination

Rival Fenris realizes he is a hypocrite.

Rival Isabela realized what she's been doing so far is wrong

Rival Merril recognizes the danger of her work and destroys the elluvian.

Rival Sebastian changes nothing. He speaks the same things and will say he will go back to Starkhaven if its a sign of the maker. And he will only go back if you spare Anders. So he is the very definiton of brainwashed, connecting every single act and disaster to the maker but he can't be blamed, the chantry did it to him like it did to sister/mother petrice.

Blame on his character development if you must, Sebastian is the worst companion NPC written by Bioware to this day. Very predictabe, one dimensional and holier than tho attitude. I mean just think about if, no single character in Bioware games is written worse than Sebastian. Rushed DLC of a rushed game...

Modifié par Rassler, 02 février 2014 - 12:25 .

[Lulupab]

hhh89 wrote...

@Rassler: Why do you think he was brainwashed? The fact that he's extremely pro-Chantry doesn't mean he's brainwashed.
He didn't want to help Anders because he (mistakenly) thought that templars wouldn't do what Anders accused Otto of. The reason why he gained rivarly if Hawke stated that he wouldn't kill Fenyerel is because the dialogue was about Fenyrel being possessed. As for why he didn't want to do Fenyerel's quest, I'd guess it's because he didn't think he was right to go to the Fade.
I don't agree a lot with Sebastian's stance (as I don't with Anders' and Fenris') but that doesn't mean he's brainwashed.

Refer to my answer to Lotion. You can't  affect Sebastian's stance on anything in oppossed to other characters. The definition of brainwash completely applies tp him. Denying everything without any solid reason but only becase its "will of the maker". He is not so different than any zealot/brainwashed religious person. Not a single difference.

Modifié par Rassler, 02 février 2014 - 12:27 .

[MageTarot]

Parmida wrote...


Your avatar is tearing my soul apart man!

UGH! QUIZZY! Y U SO HOT?

LOL - Must. Have. Hat. 

Thanks for the thumbs-up. When I saw that shot in the vid I was like 'Holy crap, there's my Inquisitor!"

Both my canon Origins Warden and DA2 Hawke have been rogues. Can't wait to see what rogues bring to Inquisition!

[The Elder King]

@Rassler:the reason he doesn't change his stance is because the F/R is about him deciding which path to choose, to remain in the Chantry or to go to Starkhaven. As the others, he change based on rivarly/friendship.
Your comparison is completely wrong. The fact that those companions realize something about themselves doesn't change their stance about mages and templars or other topics, like Sebastian. Anders remains extremely pro-mage and Fenris pro-templar, as Isabela neutral. The companions' development with F/R is about realizing something personal, not their stances. All the companions react in the same way during quests regardless if they're on friendship or rivarly.
The only case where the situation change is for Anders during the End of the game, and that's only because he's heavily involved in it. In all the other cases, the F/R changes absolutely nothing.
So no, Sebastian isn't brainwashed. He's in the same situation of other companions where their development isn't about mages and templars (Varric, Merrill, Aveline and Isabela).

Modifié par hhh89, 02 février 2014 - 12:48 .

[Lulupab]

hhh89 wrote...

@Rassler:the reason he doesn't change his stance is because the F/R is about him deciding which path to choose, to remain in the Chantry or to go to Starkhaven. As the others, he change based on rivarly/friendship.
Your comparison is completely wrong. The fact that those companions realize something about themselves doesn't change their stance about mages and templars or other topics, like Sebastian. Anders remains extremely pro-mage and Fenris pro-templar, as Isabela neutral. The companions' development with F/R is about realizing something personal, not their stances. All the companions react in the same way during quests regardless if they're on friendship or rivarly.
The only case where the situation change is for Anders during the End of the game, and that's only because he's heavily involved in it. In all the other cases, the F/R changes absolutely nothing.
So no, Sebastian isn't brainwashed. He's in the same situation of other companions where their development isn't about mages and templars (Varric, Merrill, Aveline and Isabela).

Merril and Aveline actually turn on you if they don't finish their personal quests.

But that is not the point, his judgemental party banter conversations along with dissapproving everything related to saving mages, even emile the launcet and approval of condemning mages is the factor here. And the fact that he only did these things just because priests he grew up with told him to makes it worse. At least Fenris was damaged by mages and its understanable but Sebastian? purely brainwashed by the chantry and justifies every crime and act committed to be maker's doing. Also once you help Fenris he NEVER judges any decision you make any longer, he does not even comment on letting Anders live. Sebastian is one diemensional all the game, holier than tho.

Yet he is ready to burn kirkwall to the ground to find Anders and calls it Justice, no he calls it "true justice". Making his friendship route completely irrelevant if you spare Anders.

Modifié par Rassler, 02 février 2014 - 01:02 .

[The Elder King]

@Rassler: Merrill and Aveline turn on you if you haven't maxed out their friendship/rivarly. And they turn on you because of their stances, which aren't changed by the F/R system. Again, their stances remain regardless of the F/R.
If this is because I said that their development isn't about mages and templars, the fact that they have a stance is irrelevant. Their F/R  development isn't about mages and templars (like Varric, Isabela and Sebastian). That doesn't mean that they have a neutral opinion on mages and templars.
I don't find Sebastian more one-dimensional that Anders or Fenris. Yes, Fenris has a reason for hating mages. That doesn't mean Sebastian is brainwashed. He just believes in the Chantry's teachings.
And he doesn't condone every crimes the templars/Chantry made. In Dissent's case, he doesn't condone what Otto did. He just believed that a templar wouldn't have done such things, BEFORE witnessing Otto's depravity. That means he's naive, not that he condones crimes.

Modifié par hhh89, 02 février 2014 - 01:20 .

[Lulupab]

hhh89 wrote...

@Rassler: Merrill and Aveline turn on you if you haven't maxed out their friendship/rivarly. And they turn on you because of their stances, which aren't changed by the F/R system. Again, their stances remain regardless of the F/R.
I don't find Sebastian more one-dimensional that Anders or Fenris. Yes, Fenris has a reason for hating mages. That doesn't mean Sebastian is brainwashed. He just believes in the Chantry's teachings.
And he doesn't condone every crimes the templars/Chantry made. In Dissent's case, he doesn't condone what Otto did. He just believed that a templar wouldn't have done such things. That means he's naive.

I do see some of his flaws are in his writing, he almost seems fake but that doesn't excuse anything. Anders doesn't dissapprove when you help Fenris. Fenris also doesn't dissapprove when you help Anders. Sebastian does and greatly at that, usually more than 10 points of rivalry. You're being too kind when you call him naive. Merril is naive not Sebastian. He knows exactly what he is doing.

[Aremce]

Two put in my two cents to the ever-ongoing Cullen discussion: He's basically considered fan service simply because of his many fans - by those who don't understand why he can have so many fans. I personally don't understand that, either, but also cannot see how him playing a role in Inquisition would be fan service - after what happened in Kirkwall and considering him now being the highest ranking templar there, it would make perfect sense to me. I also wouldn't mind him being a companion.

(Only thing I wouldn't be too happy about is Cullen being a LI - new characters would just be so much more interesting and refreshing - but then again me disagreeing won't change anything ... So better just not obsess about it.)

[The Elder King]

@Rassler: I never said that Sebastian isn't flawed.
I actually recall that Fenris disapproved in some of Anders' quests (don't remember when). Though it'd irrelevant. Sebastian gains rivarly for different reasons from Fenris.
I didn't say that Sebastian doesn't know what he's doing. I said he was naive about templars being possibly corrupted. Maybe there's another world I could use, but my point is that Sebastian didn't believe that templars would tranquilize mages for personal gains. He woudn't condone mages being raped and illegally tranquilized.
edit: though I think we're going way off-topic. If you want to continue send me a friend requests (though for the next few hours I don't think I'll respond since I'm going to be busy).

Modifié par hhh89, 02 février 2014 - 01:28 .

[Nerdage]

At a guess OP I'd say it's because there was no reason to think he'd turn up again after DAO.

If something happens in-game which wasn't foreshadowed in another game some people's first reaction seems to be that it must've been an afterthought, so they'll cry "plot hole" or "retcon" rather than just accepting that things change, or that things can just happen without much rhyme or reason to them.

I guess when Cullen just turns up without much reason in DA2, along with the suggestion that he'll turn up again in Inquisition, they see the enthusiasm of Cullen fans and just lump the two things together.

Not that I necessarily agree with his reappearing in DA2; I don't see what was so special about him in DAO that made him better suited for the role he played in DA2 than any new character they could put in the exact same position, and to me he just contributes to the "small world" feeling of the series so far. I feel pretty much the same about Anders in DA2 for that matter. But at least going from DA2 to Inquisition (assuming it is him?) I could see what he brings this time that a new character wouldn't.

Modifié par nerdage, 02 février 2014 - 02:05 .

[Lulupab]

hhh89 wrote...

@Rassler: I never said that Sebastian isn't flawed.
I actually recall that Fenris disapproved in some of Anders' quests (don't remember when). Though it'd irrelevant. Sebastian gains rivarly for different reasons from Fenris.
I didn't say that Sebastian doesn't know what he's doing. I said he was naive about templars being possibly corrupted. Maybe there's another world I could use, but my point is that Sebastian didn't believe that templars would tranquilize mages for personal gains. He woudn't condone mages being raped and illegally tranquilized.
edit: though I think we're going way off-topic. If you want to continue send me a friend requests (though for the next few hours I don't think I'll respond since I'm going to be busy).

No nevermind it. You do see his flaws, I just see them in much higher scale. Doesn't need much more discussion really.

[Mikoto8472]

Rassler, may I take a moment to thank you?

I'm deliberately building a rivalry path with Sebastian but usually don't use him enough to really gain much. Now you've just told me exactly when and where to bring him along.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Well, Cassandra did have a movie with her as the protagonist, so she has
a better standing than Cullen. Granted the movie takes place almost two
decades prior to Inquisition so who knows what's changed about her
since then.

The movie also happens to be garbage.

I really enjoyed and like Dawn of the Seeker.

[Lulupab]

Mikoto8472 wrote...

Rassler, may I take a moment to thank you?

I'm deliberately building a rivalry path with Sebastian but usually don't use him enough to really gain much. Now you've just told me exactly when and where to bring him along.

Lol my pleasure but its very easy to build Sebastian rivalry anyway. Just pick the agressive options, there is like 70% chance that everytime you say something aggressive he dissapproves. 

Accept Anders' quest Dissent. (+15 rivalry). Chose the aggressive option when talking with Justice aka you promise Justice together you will kill every last templar (+10 rivalry). Either let Ella die or save her but do not chose "Anders is a demon", tell her Anders is just a troubled man not a demon. Either way you get +15 rivalry. Let her go instead of going to circle and you get another +5 rivalry.

Dissent grants whopping +45 rivalry with Sebastian.

Start the quest night terrors, the one we help feynriel. Starting the quest itself grants +10 rivalry, telling marethari you won't kill feynriel grants another +15.

Done. Sebastian rivalry maxed with 2 quests which you really help the mages in need of help.

Modifié par Rassler, 02 février 2014 - 05:44 .

[Hellion Rex]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
Well, Cassandra did have a movie with her as the protagonist, so she has
a better standing than Cullen. Granted the movie takes place almost two
decades prior to Inquisition so who knows what's changed about her
since then.

The movie also happens to be garbage.

I really enjoyed and like Dawn of the Seeker.

Agreed. It wasn't perfect, but I still enjoyed watching it.

[Grieving Natashina]

This has been pretty fascinating to read. Thanks for keeping it pretty civil and sticking to the topic! I've got a really idea on not just about Cullen, but why something is considered fan service in general. It was nice to hear it from David as well as the fans on the BSN.