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[The Elder King]

@Rassler: and you know Fenris is more hated than loved......how? Do you have any proof to back this claim?
I didn't romance him either way, but saying that rival romance shouldn't count is, well, only your opinion. As far as I know companions still love Hawke on rivarly.
Again, you're talking about 'general pro-mages' when you have no clue on what a general pro-mage
thinks about Cullen or Fenris, or if they'd be annoyed by them. What you do consider a general pro-mage?
And the fact that you don't consider Cullen's experience as logical reason for his change of view baffles me. But I prefer to not continue on this point, becuase we already did it once and it'd involve an off-topic character of which we have a very different opinion.

[Lulupab]

hhh89 wrote...

@Rassler: and you know Fenris is more hated than loved......how? Do you have any proof to back this claim?
I didn't romance him either way, but saying that rival romance shouldn't count is, well, only your opinion. As far as I know companions still love Hawke on rivarly.
Again, you're talking about 'general pro-mages' when you have no clue on what a general pro-mage
thinks about Cullen or Fenris, or if they'd be annoyed by them. What you do consider a general pro-mage?
And the fact that you don't consider Cullen's experience as logical reason for his change of view baffles me. But I prefer to not continue on this point, becuase we already did it once and it'd involve an off-topic character of which we have a very different opinion.

Well the topic is about Cullen isn't it? There is already an Anders thread right now 

Anyway there can never be any proof about who likes who or who hates who more, its just personal experience from my activity during DA2 times. BSN does not stand for all DA2 players, nor its actually reliable.

Cullen experience can indeed change his views, I did not say it can't but people who are affected by a single event in their life and take all decisions in their life based on that event are dangerous and unstable people and in modern world need psycholigical help. Fenris was born into that event and it was much harsher, this "event" is his whole life, but Cullen simply had a bad experience. Fiona was a slave and was raped and turtored as child by humans yet she held no grudge against humans, in fact she is one of the few elves who does not hate humans. 

Remember this day  because if indeed Cullen is a companion hate threads are incoming, just like Fenris. I however would never mind a rivalmance with Cullen at all.

[Lulupab]

Hazegurl wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Cullen somewhat semi-agrees with Alrik's plan.

Now do you honestly think Cullen has any place in pro-mage players game? I'm definitely sure no one wants another Fenris, good looking but an absolute headache. He just needs to be written perfectly if he is going to appear in the game... 

Cullen does not semi agree with Alrik's plan.  He doesn't agree with it at all. However, he is in favor of the Tranquil ritual. Big difference.

If a pro mage player want to only be surrounded by "yes men" all the time then I would say that he doesn't belong on their game. All the characters need to be written perfectly if they are to appear in the game. But I would hardly consider some wet noodle character with zero conviction a perfectly written character. Besides some pro mage players love them some rivalmancing.

Lol you already know my opinion of Cullen I was just generalizing how people might think about him. Rivalmance with cullen with a male mage! 

I always romanced Anders with female Hawke but I always romanced Fenris with male Hawke. Because to be honest I once tried straight romance with Fenris and it was dull, it striked me as if he needed a man not a woman. In my opinion Fenris is the best same sex romance option in the game. Oh gay romance with Anders was also dull to some degree, he certainly shows more love to female hawke <3

Also rival romance with Fenris was shown much better than other rivalmances. Its actually hate and love mixed perfectly. 

[The Elder King]

@Rassler: I woudn't define what Cullen suffered as simply 'bad': being tortured for weeks both phisically and mentally can destroy a person. You're understimating, in my opinion, what he suffered, and what Uldred was capable of doing.
Fiona and Fenris lived worse lives, I agree, by not everyone reacts in the same way. I'm sure there are people that in Fenris' and Cullen's shoes woudn't have reacted in the way they did, as well as elves that in Fiona's shoes would've come to hate humans.  Plus, as I said, Cullen seems to change a bit during the game, when more time passed for the events of DAO, and I believe that the events of Kirkwall could lead to character development.
Hate threads always happen. Fenris isn't the only character of DA2 who had it: Anders had roughly the same (if not more, considering the ratio in the DAI forum; Isabela and Merrill had it. The fact that there are numerous hate threads doesn't mean that the character is more hated than loved.

Modifié par hhh89, 04 février 2014 - 12:11 .

[dragonflight288]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@Hazegurl: I think that it depends on what you define as extreme. If for an extremist templar you think only about corrupted templars that tranquilize illegally mages, and rapist, yes, Cullen isn't extremist. If you consider a templar extremist based not only by those actions, but by his/her views, Cullen could be classified as extremist, considering his speech in Act 1. His position isn't that different from Fenris, and he isn't moderate..

There was really nothing extreeme about it, he was spot on.

Sarcasm Alert, Sarcasm Alert.

I suppose we can also say, "templars are nothing more than drug addicts. Their minds are too fragile because of the lyrium to be trusted to make morally sound choices, and that's why they can't be treated as people like you and me. They are weapons of the Chantry. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rassler wrote...
Well I did say that Cullen is much less extreme but he is kinda extreme nontheless. This is best of worst scenario.

"Mages are not people, they are weapons"
"We have dominace by divine right over the mages"
"Mages can never be our friend"
Cullen somewhat semi-agrees with Alrik's plan.

1) "Mages are not people LIKE YOU AND ME, they are weapons"  - correct. They are different and they are living weapons. Worse actually.They are living weaposn prone to possesion.

2) That is correct. "Magic will serve man, not over him" and it's the Templars job to ensure that.

3) Correct, in a practical sense. It is very difficult for a jailor and prisoner to be friends.

4) He does not.

Now do you honestly think Cullen has any place in pro-mage players game?
I'm definitely sure no one wants another Fenris, good looking but an
absolute headache. He just needs to be written perfectly if he is going
to appear in the game...

What does being a pro-mage have to do with it?
The Inquisitors job is to close the veil tears, not parade his personal issues in front of the world. So you get whatever help you can get. Or don't. I dont' recall companions being mandatory anyway...so where is the problem?

[Lotion Soronarr]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
What brutal methods?

After Cullen returned to his duties, it became clear that he would go to any lengths to enforce the Chantry's rule. His zeal troubled Knight-Commander Greagoir, who feared it unwise to let Cullen watch over the men and women he deemed responsible for his torment.


Greagoir sent Cullen to serve under Knight-commander Meredith in Kirkwall, hoping time away would calm him, and Meredith found Cullen's view of  mages similar to her own. Of her company, only Cullen had seen mages'
potentially terrifying power firsthand, and she believed he could  influence the other templars' views. Consequently, Cullen rose quickly  through the ranks to become knight-captain and Meredith's second-in-command

So Meredith was banking on Cullen's mage hysteria and his violent behaviour to influence other templars since Greagoir figured he was too much of a Chantry nut to watch over mages responsibly.

Again...what brutal methods?
Provide an actual example please.

[Hellion Rex]

Rassler wrote...
Remember this day  because if indeed Cullen is a companion hate threads are incoming, just like Fenris.

And I assume you'll be leading the charge. Big surprise.

[Lulupab]

eluvianix wrote...

Rassler wrote...
Remember this day  because if indeed Cullen is a companion hate threads are incoming, just like Fenris.

And I assume you'll be leading the charge. Big surprise.

Lol nope. Have you been around BSN when a game is released? Threads are overfilled with people. I once made a thread in DA2 section, it was in 2nd page in matter of seconds. Imagine the number of threads being created all at once.

[keightdee]

Rassler wrote...

I agree, that will complete his religious freak persona. I didn't like Sebastian much but I didn't hated him, most of the time I ignored him. In a playthrough I decided to take him with me more, which made realzie how brainwashed and unfixable his character is.

EVERYTIME you decide to help Merril or Anders he gets rivalry, every single bloody time. Even accepting their quest itself gains sebasian rivalry. As an example accepting Dissent, a qust in which we help Anders stop ser Alrik's tranquility plan, grants sebastian bloody 15 rivalry, really? Amusing deciding not help Anders and merril grants him friendship, refusing dissent grants 15 friendship.

Attempting to start the quest in which we help feynriel will result in sebastian rivalty +15. Telling marethari you will not kill feynriel grants another 10. 

He is a very good companion in kill all the mages playthroughs, but many players like me are itching to give him what he really deserves, murder knife.

Oh man. We could not disagree more. 

[Lulupab]

keightdee wrote...

Rassler wrote...

I agree, that will complete his religious freak persona. I didn't like Sebastian much but I didn't hated him, most of the time I ignored him. In a playthrough I decided to take him with me more, which made realzie how brainwashed and unfixable his character is.

EVERYTIME you decide to help Merril or Anders he gets rivalry, every single bloody time. Even accepting their quest itself gains sebasian rivalry. As an example accepting Dissent, a qust in which we help Anders stop ser Alrik's tranquility plan, grants sebastian bloody 15 rivalry, really? Amusing deciding not help Anders and merril grants him friendship, refusing dissent grants 15 friendship.

Attempting to start the quest in which we help feynriel will result in sebastian rivalty +15. Telling marethari you will not kill feynriel grants another 10. 

He is a very good companion in kill all the mages playthroughs, but many players like me are itching to give him what he really deserves, murder knife.

Oh man. We could not disagree more. 

People disagree all the time. 

[Eveangaline]

Edit: **** went looking for a quote from this thread and accidentally posted in it instead of the other. Sorry.

[archav3n]

Cullen is bad for fan-service. I'm no fan of Cullen really. If they want to give a true fan service then it should be equal. What is in for male gamers? It's unfair.

[Vilegrim]

Not if you don't like him. If you don't like him then, even if you don't know what the story is, there's no justifiable reason for him to return. If he did, you can already tell he would be boring no matter how he's written.

This is why I stop paying attention to character discussions fairly early on.

 

 

my 'hope to execute slowly and painfully' is Cass....

[AkiKishi]

Anyhow, that's my question.  I never saw him as fan service and while I didn't mind the character, he wasn't one of my favorites.  Is anyone willing to take a polite shot at this? 

 

Because his place in the game is down to his popularity not because of his abilities as a character.

[Rolling Flame]

This thread needs a lock.

[Chari]

Because his place in the game is down to his popularity not because of his abilities as a character.

Indeed, it seems

[LilyasAvalon]

Because of his somewhat puzzling popularity among the fans one would assume that his re-appearance in DAI would be mostly to appease this audience. Have no idea what reason he would have to appear in DAI otherwise?

 

Not necessarily?

 

Cullen's pretty skilled in battle, he was present for both the events of Uldred's rebellion and Kirkwall's war with mages and Qunari, as well as Meredith's, erm, 'condition'.

 

He's pretty skilled as a warrior and templar.

[Zazzerka]

Honestly though, if Samedi's mother expected him to become an astronaut, she's being really unfair. Do you know how hard it is to become an astronaut, ma'am? You're just setting yourself up for disappointment, and worse than that, your son with feelings of inadequacy. Take a reality check.

[LilyasAvalon]

I suppose to some degree it might be fan service, but does that mean there aint no story or justification otherwise not to include him? varric is back to a degree that is also fan service, shall we rip him out aswell?, playing as a Tal vashoth is fan service shall we take that out? a elf? a dwarf? the overhead tactical camera?

 

Just because one does not like something does not mean time effort an resources should not be spent on including it, there is more justification for cullen to be in Inquisition than there is for allowing anyone to play as a Tal Vashoth, i see ppl hear complaining about his inclusion but lapping up Varrics, there is no difference.

 

I would not deny someone something in a game just because of my dislike, thats selfishness of the highest order, you ppl would do well to sit back an take a breather

 

Here here!

 

Fan service is not necessarily a bad thing people, at least if it's integrated well.

[AkiKishi]

The difference is why the characters are included. It could turn out that Varric was Kaiser Soze all along and Hawke was his creation, which would be hillarious. Because of the structure of DA2, we never see Hawke in the first person. 

 

Cullen is there because of a lot of fan fiction and fan art not because of any great characterisation or place in the story. That is fan service. He's an object and if he were female people would be up in arms about it. 

[LilyasAvalon]

The difference is why the characters are included. It could turn out that Varric was Kaiser Soze all along and Hawke was his creation, which would be hillarious. Because of the structure of DA2, we never see Hawke in the first person. 

 

Cullen is there because of a lot of fan fiction and fan art not because of any great characterisation or place in the story. That is fan service. He's an object and if he were female people would be up in arms about it. 

 

You're just trying to pick a fight, aren't you?

[AkiKishi]

You're just trying to pick a fight, aren't you?

 

Not with any great enthusiasm 

 

fanservice, or service cut (サービスカット, sābisu katto^?),^[1][2] is a term originating from anime and manga fandom for material in a series which is intentionally added to please the audience.^[3] It is about "servicing" the fan^[4] - giving the fans "exactly what they want".^[5] Fan service usually refers to "gratuitous titillation", 

 

That's why Cullen is in the game as an LI. If he were not an LI, then I don't think he would even be in the game unless Bioware are trying to reuse models and voices.