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Why is Cullen considered "fan service?"


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#601
daveliam

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Cullen's "involvement" in the Broken Circle could have been filled by any generic Templar, or even any generic mage. Unless, of course, you played a female Mage, then, he had a crush on you, but his role in the Broken Circle could have still been filled by any generic Templar or Mage. He was there, but inconsequential.

 

I don't really understand this argument.  Yeah, it could have been a different Templar, but it wasn't.  Why does that matter?  It's part of his story.  Just because it could have been someone else, doesn't mean that it doesn't affect his character arc.  Can you explain why it matters that it could have been someone else?  I don't see a difference between this and "Well, Leliana's role could have been played by any bard....."



#602
Caja

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Maybe I can answer it from my own point of view. Until I joined this forum I had no clue who Cullen was. I have never played the mage origin story and I usually don't remember the names of NPCs, outside of actual companions. However, on this forum there is a very vocal following for Cullen to the point that particular character has a thread which is close to, or already has even overtaken the amount of posts of the Twitter thread. I just don't quite understand why he is so loved for what in my impression of playing both games was a character I didn't even remember. I can honestly say I have never seen any character get this much attention from fans, not even old companions. Again, that is just an impression I got by joining this forum and it is an impression I still have.

 

Another problem, which is really my own fault, is that as soon as what I see as an unmemorable character gets so much following it somewhat turns me off from a character. It seems to me there are more who end up feeling this way, hence the anti-Cullen posts. I do believe that if you don't like a particular character you should at least stay respectful. I hope I haven't hurt anyone with this post because that is not my intent. I am trying to do my best to at least give my view on the why.

 

I also have to note that with Morrigan and Leleina it is different. Both characters were companions and thus more memorable, at least to me. I would likely feel the same way about any other non-companion making a return in a hugely important role, be it as a companion or adviser.

 

Ah, okay, thanks for shedding some light on this. And don't worry, you're not disrespectul and haven't hurt anyone.

 

In my opinion all characters get an equally amount of attention, especially when they are romanceable. Maybe it doesn't feel that way right now, because Mass Effect, DAO and DA2 have already been released for some time now. Naturally, most of the debates took already place. But I remember that the character threads over in the Mass Effect forum got temporarily locked because the discussions there became too heated. All the character threads, if I remember that correctly. So, I disagree about Cullen getting more attention than others. There were (and still are) debates going on about other characters, too and they have certainly caused uproars as well.  

 

But I understand why Cullen just doesn't appeal to everyone and why it can feel like an "over-exposure" if the character gets mentioned everywhere. Although, based on my own experience Cullen fans usually stay in the Cullen thread. On the other hand, I don't follow all the threads in the forum, so I don't know for sure.  

 

I would at least wait and see how it all turns out before I get all worked up about a fictional character.


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#603
Giga Drill BREAKER

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I honestly do not get the Cullen fangirls, he was a tool in both games, whats his appeal?



#604
MrMrPendragon

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I don't see any appeal whatsover in Cullen, in fact I'm leaning towards finding him as a nuisance instead of just a regular npc I don't give a damn about.

However, I don't care if he's in the game. If Bioware put Cullen in when we were promised another character, I'd be pissed, but as far as I know, Cullen didn't steal anyone's spot in the Inquisitor's Avengers. He has his own spot in the Avengers.

So even though I may end up siding against him at every opportunity I can get, be a total d-bag to him in every conversation I have with him, or maybe even get him killed intentionally if the game allows me to, I'm not mad that he's placed as an important npc.

Some people like him, I don't. They'll be nice to him and I'll kill him if I can. We all win
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#605
TheTurtle

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I don't see any appeal whatsover in Cullen, in fact I'm leaning towards finding him as a nuisance instead of just a regular npc I don't give a damn about.

However, I don't care if he's in the game. If Bioware put Cullen in when we were promised another character, I'd be pissed, but as far as I know, Cullen didn't steal anyone's spot in the Inquisitor's Avengers. He has his own spot in the Avengers.

So even though I may end up siding against him at every opportunity I can get, be a total d-bag to him in every conversation I have with him, or maybe even get him killed intentionally if the game allows me to, I'm not mad that he's placed as an important npc.

Some people like him, I don't. They'll be nice to him and I'll kill him if I can. We all win

This pretty much sums up my feelings on him. Though if he can only be killed at the expense of someone I like he'll live.

#606
Mes

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I'm a woman. I never knew I was afraid of my own cooties

 

That must be hard for you.

 

I honestly do not get the Cullen fangirls, he was a tool in both games, whats his appeal?

 

Who cares. Pffft. Seriously.

 

No one is badgering the Lelianna and Morrigan "fanboys". Why not? Is it because they're boys and boys can be fans of whatever they want without question, but girls have to justify themselves?

 

(This is of course assuming that Cullen's fans are all girls, which they're not.)


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#607
ClassicBox

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First, we have to consider what people consider fan service. My definition is something along the lines of 'something being included to please fans that has no relevance to the plot or (in this case) game.'

 

Now, I don't know how anyone can possibly know that Cullen is fan service if they haven't played the game. How do you know that Cullen doesn't have relevance? How is it known that he doesn't fit in to the scheme of things without playing through the game and meeting him yourself? The fact is; you can't. 

 

I think so many people are willing to believe that he can't possibly be an important, reasonable character in the game because they don't like him. Not liking a character=/=not important. The argument 'it could have been somebody else' makes no sense. And Cullen seems to have a good history throughout the game, making him a good fit for a rounded perspective on the mage-templar war. 

 

Yes he has a lot of fans. That doesn't mean Bioware went 'Oh I know! That character wouldn't fit in at all in our game, but because he has a fan base we will include him! Brilliant!' I'm certain if they didn't think he would a good companion (or most likely, npc) they wouldn't have included him. Period.

 

Really, I think it's a matter of 'I don't like this character. A lot of people do, so it's fan service!' I'm not a big fan of Leliana, but I can see how she ties in to the game. She isn't fan-service, yet she has a big fan base.

 

It's all right to not like a character but stating that the writers have no reason to include them, without even playing the game, is silly. :P


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#608
Giga Drill BREAKER

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That must be hard for you.

 

 

Who cares. Pffft. Seriously.

 

No one is badgering the Lelianna and Morrigan "fanboys". Why not? Is it because they're boys and boys can be fans of whatever they want without question, but girls have to justify themselves?

 

(This is of course assuming that Cullen's fans are all girls, which they're not.)

Lelianna and Morrigan where main characters, Cullen was not, I could understand if fangirls loved a male main character, but Cullen has very little time on screen, and when he is on screen he is usually being a tool, I just don't understand.

 

Its like fanboys falling in love with random female npc no.2.



#609
Hippiethecat124

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However, I don't care if he's in the game. If Bioware put Cullen in when we were promised another character, I'd be pissed, but as far as I know, Cullen didn't steal anyone's spot in the Inquisitor's Avengers. He has his own spot in the Avengers.


Heh. Cullen is Hawkeye, and Leliana is Black Widow. ;)

I've always been rather ambivalent in regards to Cullen. His story arc was interesting if one played the magi origin, because of his return as Uldred's prisoner at the end of Broken Circle, and that had some extra flavor if one played as a female mage. I personally found it rather interesting, but not enough that I carried it with me outside of the game. I think the death of Fem!Tabris's fiancée affected me more, as far as origin-specific flirtations go. His role in DAII caught me off guard (as far as I knew until then, he upped and killed a few Circle mages before running away), and my Mage!Hawke didn't know how to respond to the "Mages aren't people like you and I," line, but I saw his development over the course of the game and just shrugged and accepted it.

I feel like there is a lot of potential for his character to grow, but I also feel that the seemingly massive following he has is a bit odd. But, hey, the fans are entitled to it. If I can cross my fingers and toes that Varric can be a love interest, then I can't hold it against the Cullenites that they have a favorite character to discuss/ crush on. I'm happy they get more Cullen like they've been wanting, and maybe his writing can convince me that there's more to him than I've seen so far. I honestly can't love or hate him at this point: just the flame threads created to ****** about him.

*deploys emergency ejection jetpack and scurries out of thread*

#610
AppealToReason

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Because a bunch of people wanna smang him despite his immense suckiness.

 

  • He's proven to be incompetent, blind and dumb.
  • You're always doing his job
  • He was useless in an authority position to stop Alrik and Karas and other Templar corruption
  • He didn't clue in until the very end of DA2 that Meredith was crossing the line
  • You can apostate infront of him with Hawke/Anders and even turn Anders over to him and he'd be like "meh its k. run along now" which goes against how osbequious he is every other mage encounter
  • He'd broken the Templar code aiding some mages to escape because Hawke said "its cool homie" which should get him kicked out of the Templars
  • Had to have Hawke make all his decisions
  • Had an army of blood mages running around in his city without knowing or doing anything about it

 

But hey, like kissing and stuff, so lets bring this terribly incompetent idiot in as military advisor.


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#611
Mes

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Lelianna and Morrigan where main characters, Cullen was not, I could understand if fangirls loved a male main character, but Cullen has very little time on screen, and when he is on screen he is usually being a tool, I just don't understand.

 

Its like fanboys falling in love with random female npc no.2.

 

Okay. I suppose I can understand that distinction. :)

 

I honestly don't see the problem though. If a bunch of fanboys were to swoon over some random female npc, then more power to 'em. 

 

I will never understand a bunch of people getting their panties in a twist over something positive, like people getting excited about a character. It's like a bunch of leeches just itching to suck the happiness out of anyone who dares to be excited about something.

 

Who cares what people's reasons are. 


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#612
Battlebloodmage

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Because a bunch of people wanna smang him despite his immense suckiness.

 

  • He's proven to be incompetent, blind and dumb.
  • You're always doing his job
  • He was useless in an authority position to stop Alrik and Karas and other Templar corruption
  • He didn't clue in until the very end of DA2 that Meredith was crossing the line
  • You can apostate infront of him with Hawke/Anders and even turn Anders over to him and he'd be like "meh its k. run along now" which goes against how osbequious he is every other mage encounter
  • He'd broken the Templar code aiding some mages to escape because Hawke said "its cool homie" which should get him kicked out of the Templars
  • Had to have Hawke make all his decisions
  • Had an army of blood mages running around in his city without knowing or doing anything about it

 

But hey, like kissing and stuff, so lets bring this terribly incompetent idiot in as military advisor.

Cullen is dumb because he's blond, so I blame his genetics. j/k ^_^  

 

NPCs are often useless just so they can have the protagonists solve their problems. All the problems you mention have to do more with the plots than with him. If you want to complain about him, I would rather focus on his personality.



#613
Battlebloodmage

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Have there been a complain about male fan service characters? Asides from Miranda's ass? No one complain about Isabela inclusion in DA2 despite being a minor characters in DA2. Cullen's exact situation is the same as Isabela, you know?


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#614
Cyrax86

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@Mes 

 

 

 

  Morri and Lelianna have actual reasons for being in the game, (previous unresolved story, and new plot/story ). 

 

 

 Morri, in DAO, if you did the DR that is unresolved, theres also her connection to Flemeth.  DAO(epilogue) she places herself next to Empress Celene and since were going to Orlais. DA 2 she gets a mention or 2. 

 

 

      Lelianna, i think becoming the right hand of the Divine might have something to do with her being in the game, 

 

 

 

  (((IMO)))  I have never seen a good reason for cullen to be in DAI, other than he was in both previous DA games. DA still has some unresolved plot points that are connected to other NPCs or Companions, cullen has nothing in terms of story, if he does get something in terms of story its because it was added in DAI not because of previous DA games, he's irrelevant until Bioware makes relevant, which could have been done with almost any character or NPC. (((IMO))) 

 

 

 Either way i don't care if he's in the game or not, we'll see if he is an important character or just fan service when DAI releases. 



#615
SamaraDraven

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Most of the complaints I hear against Cullen can be applied to many beloved characters. Bioware has shown in the past to have an affinity for bringing back known characters. For my part I think it's because it adds a bit of familiarity to the game, a feeling of cohesion - that you're still in Thedas - and if that has any bearing on the decision to revisit past characters then ALL old friends would be "fanservice". But Bioware also tries to make their decisions relevant to the game or they'd be making a pile of nug droppings. That said, all reasons for not including Cullen could be made of others they have brought back. I don't care for Leliana but I know she has precedent for being there. I don't see a bunch of people vehemently complaining about what her big deal is, though. Most of the "fanservice" and fan-bashing remarks I see against Cullen are from guys. Or girls who bash their own gender the same as those guys - ie. making generalizations and assumptions about the fans. It seems most dissenters can happily overlook the same flaws in other characters that they scream Cullen should die for. I've seen the same, "He's unimportant" and "We've seen enough of him" rhetoric to write a bad trilogy about How-To-Build-A-Seesaw.

 

Characters that were designed to appeal to the marketed masses seem to be A-ok to most here on the boards despite the parallels they share with Cullen. Leliana gets a free pass for her past - and her overly privileged view of elves, so does Morrigan for how much she never wants to help anyone but herself, Zevran for being a cad, Anders and Orsino are excused to infinity - even Loghain has his fans who still pine for another encounter with him.They're all independent individuals who have been living on their own and making these decisions on their own but Cullen who is part of an organization that preaches a religious rhetoric that the masses live by and he serves an institution that indoctrinates and drugs its soldiers, is held to a higher standard of conscience? He's supposed to "know better" than how he was brought up? Better than a war general? Better than a mage who knowingly took a spirit into himself? Better than a mage who believes in the Chantry and preaches compliance with the Circle? Better than a mage who turned to blood magic even though he had help to fight the Templars? Better than a witch who would help no one but herself? Better than a pirate who didn't return what she stole until AFTER blood was being shed over it and even then only under the "right" circumstances? Cullen is no worse or better than anyone else in DA.

 

I've come to the conclusion that Cullen haters are just tweaked that a character they don't care for, that is also part of the institution of the "dark side" as it were (rather than a rogue individual) and not marketed appeal to them is something they feel they have to devalue and deny its relevance in hopes that the "It's useless" argument sounds reasonable enough to sway the people who make the decisions.

 

"Cullen's role could be filled by ANY templar." So could Morrigan's. Empress Celene doesn't NEED her - any dark witch will do but she's a popular familiar face. Oh Maker! It must be fanservice!

 

Steve Valentine has been tweeting that he's doing lines for DAI... Unless he's doing a different character (unlikely) Alistair will be seen again. But what does the king of Ferelden (or a drunken despot) care if Orlais has issues? Why wouldn't another monarch - like Sebastian, for instance - be picked for a return, or a new one? We could meet the rulers of Antiva! or Rivain! Why Al? *gasp!* It must be... fanservice!

 

What would motivate Varric to tag along with Cassandra? He doesn't appear to be a prisoner... and once he told Cass all he knew, there's really no reason I can see him hanging around. He was clear about his distaste for the wilds and how much he adored the city - especially the Hanged Man - during DA2 so it seems odd he left... FANSERVICE!

 

Could it be that Bioware is indeed "servicing" their fans (as much as they're able to and still make a game that makes sense)? Could it be that they think we appreciate a little familiarity to tie the stories together but jamming characters that have NO relevance to the stories into Inquisition would be less pleasant reminder and more "What the frell are you doing here?"

 

DAI is FULL of "fanservice", if I were to take the criteria used against Cullen as the standard by which such a claim should be determined as immutable fact. That some characters have been seen again versus others with strong fan bases proves that the devs don't just slot characters in because a set of fans have asked. If they are bringing back familiar faces to "tie" the stories together and keep a sense of cohesion to the world and make the story more personable, however; I'd say we're being "serviced" in the best way. If that weren't at least partly true, we probably wouldn't have a Dragon Age: Inquisition to worry about. It'd just be another medieval role playing game. Some people just loooove to whine about not getting everything they want.


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#616
Eveangaline

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In my experience, the things we might put into a game solely to make fans (or a select group of fans, anyhow) happy tend to be pretty small in scope. Anything larger than that is going to require justification. At least someone on the team will need to believe that thing's inclusion has merit to the story or the game at large.

Fans like it when something they've been rooting for gets included in a title. When it's something they haven't been rooting for, but which others have, then it becomes "fan service" and a bad thing. In the case of Cullen, that gets laced with some extra venom because the fans who would be most excited about his inclusion (if, indeed, he's included in the way that some appear to assume) are both female and likely interested in romancing him.


And, for the love of God, why would we try to make them happy? To what new low has BioWare sank?

Try to maintain a bit of class, people. If something does get included that a group of fans would be excited for. no matter what the reason is, instead of being jealous try to be happy for them.

 

I kinda wish this post had ended the thread because seriously, they aren't going to make large game decisions like major characters based on fanservice.


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#617
Fishy

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welll since origins fangirls have wanted to romance him just my 2 cents.

 

Yup . They were even mod with the option to have him has a companion and romance him lol.



#618
Mes

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Some people just loooove to whine about not getting everything they want.

 

Or more specifically in this case - some people just looooove to whine when others get something they want.  :rolleyes:

 

Yup . They were even mod with the option to have him has a companion and romance him lol.

 

The horror! Down with fangirls!


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#619
Ispan

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Yup . They were even mod with the option to have him has a companion and romance him lol.

 

This has nothing to do with anything.  If it meant anything we'd have Ser Gilmore as our military advisor instead since his companion/romance mod was downloaded 70,000 more times than the mod that contained both Ser Gilmore and Cullen.  lol.


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#620
EkhidnaDrakaina

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I think if Cullen knew so many people wanted to bang him he'd go into hiding.

 

"Maker preserve us" indeed.



#621
spinachdiaper

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In my opinion Cullen is a simpleton and a pawn. People who like him must see something in him that isn't really there.



#622
archav3n

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So Bioware has to include random NPC and make him important because of fan service. Right... I want Shepard back in ME4. Fan service please.

#623
Hanako Ikezawa

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Cullen can serve a purpose, other than being your military adviser of course, in that he is a great set of eyes to learn the Mage-Templar issue from. This is the man who has seen the worst both sides had to offer, with Broken Circle being mages and The Last Straw being Templars. 



#624
Battlebloodmage

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In my opinion Cullen is a simpleton and a pawn. People who like him must see something in him that isn't really there.

According to many people here, most of Cullen fans like him because he's handsome and we want to bang him. We know guys love their video games women for their intelligence and personality. Why can't female gamers be more like their male counterpart? I haven't seen any guy complaining about superficial stuffs like how ugly the new Morrigan is or how mannish Cassandra is.  


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#625
PsychoBlonde

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There was originally (as in, more than a year ago, before DAIII was anything more than an assumption on the part of hardcore fans) one--as in SINGULAR--thread about "what existing characters would you like to see in DAIII".  Cullen came up as a possibility.  So did Maraas and Charade and a few others.

 

Next thing I know the forum is COVERED with "OMG WHY CULLEN FANS SO FREAKING INSANE?!?!?!?!!!171!!" threads.  David Gaider even remarked on it, since the initial response was along the lines of "yeah, I remember that guy!  He was kinda cute!  Sure, that's a possibility!"

 

The now-ubiquitous Cullen threads are 100% a result of this stupid, overblown backlash against, like, 10 people saying "yeah, that could be cool".  No joke.  A valuable lesson about deciding that you're an oppressed group due to a few people maybe liking something and speaking up about it.  It only succeeds in CREATING what you FEARED.


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