700 réponses à ce sujet

[PrinceofTime]

Bright side is hes not a companion so the less i see of him the better. Shame that hes the military advisor though since that's what my Inquisition is going to be geared towards but if bioware gives us the chance, im totally killing him.

[daveliam]

In my opinion Cullen is a simpleton and a pawn. People who like him must see something in him that isn't really there.

 

Ooorrrrrrr, and just bear with me here, maybe, just maybe, people have a different opinion than you and that's okay because it doesn't actually effect your opinion in any way.  I know, right?  Radical thinking.

 

So Bioware has to include random NPC and make him important because of fan service. Right... I want Shepard back in ME4. Fan service please.

 

Show me anywhere, literally anywhere, that a fan or Bioware staff member has said that they have to include Cullen.  I'll wait here.......

[Nefla]

Man, all this crazy Cullen hate is fixin' to push me from "meh" to team Cullen. It's one NPC in a video game guys, it's not like he's going to be sewn to your hip.

[daveliam]

Man, all this crazy Cullen hate is fixin' to push me from "meh" to team Cullen. It's one NPC in a video game guys, it's not like he's going to be sewn to your hip.

 

I know.  I'm not even really a Cullen fan, but the craziness of this hate is ridiculous.  I feel obligated to counter it because it's just so baffling.

[robertthebard]

I don't really understand this argument.  Yeah, it could have been a different Templar, but it wasn't.  Why does that matter?  It's part of his story.  Just because it could have been someone else, doesn't mean that it doesn't affect his character arc.  Can you explain why it matters that it could have been someone else?  I don't see a difference between this and "Well, Leliana's role could have been played by any bard....."

Because it's unimportant. Leliana was a party member, Cullen was a creepy stalker that got put in a bubble. The only thing that conversation can trigger is whether you kill Wynne before proceeding on. It's a generic role that could have been filled by anyone, and the only reason it gets any attention is the Mage origin, so for 5 other origins, he might as well be Generic Templar #6.

Like I said in the part of the post you snipped, however, I'm going to wait and see how he's implemented into whatever role he's implemented in before I decide if it's good or bad. I don't have enough information to make an informed claim. His inclusion is, in my eyes, fanservice, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. More will be revealed.

[Nefla]

I know.  I'm not even really a Cullen fan, but the craziness of this hate is ridiculous.  I feel obligated to counter it because it's just so baffling.

I am like the queen of long, fruitless arguments

[TheTurtle]

Ooorrrrrrr, and just bear with me here, maybe, just maybe, people have a different opinion than you and that's okay because it doesn't actually effect your opinion in any way. I know, right? Radical thinking.


Show me anywhere, literally anywhere, that a fan or Bioware staff member has said that they have to include Cullen. I'll wait here.......

I think arch is on your side.....

[Nefla]

Because it's unimportant. Leliana was a party member, Cullen was a creepy stalker that got put in a bubble. The only thing that conversation can trigger is whether you kill Wynne before proceeding on. It's a generic role that could have been filled by anyone, and the only reason it gets any attention is the Mage origin, so for 5 other origins, he might as well be Generic Templar #6.

Like I said in the part of the post you snipped, however, I'm going to wait and see how he's implemented into whatever role he's implemented in before I decide if it's good or bad. I don't have enough information to make an informed claim. His inclusion is, in my eyes, fanservice, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. More will be revealed.

So he's a "creepy stalker" now? The shy young guy who lives down the hall and has a crush on you but is too shy to talk to you...yeah someone better call the cops! I mean I understand being freaked out by the part with him watching you while you sleep or wanting to peel your eyelashes off and keep them in a jar oh wait...that was Leliana.

[daveliam]

I think arch is on your side.....

 

Ha.  Maybe he is. 

 

I also kind of hate that I have a side in this conversation......

[TheTurtle]

Ha. Maybe he is.

I also kind of hate that I have a side in this conversation......

Eh humans, we're a tribal species what are you gonna do

[Cyrax86]

So he's a "creepy stalker" now? The shy young guy who lives down the hall and has a crush on you but is too shy to talk to you...yeah someone better call the cops! I mean I understand being freaked out by the part with him watching you while you sleep or wanting to peel your eyelashes off and keep them in a jar oh wait...that was Leliana.

Ya that was Lelianna, the one who fought alongside the GW, right hand of the Divine, the very same one who was working for Divine throughout DA2, and the one whose shown helping Cass at the end of DA2.  

[robertthebard]

snip
 
"Cullen's role could be filled by ANY templar." So could Morrigan's. Empress Celene doesn't NEED her - any dark witch will do but she's a popular familiar face. Oh Maker! It must be fanservice!

snip

Morrigan's slides can show that someone resembling her was seen in Orlais, and as mentioned, she is directly connected to Flemeth. So I'm a City Elf doing Broken Circle, who exactly is Cullen? Oh, that's right, he's random Templar #6. The same applies if I'm playing anything but a Female Mage, barring if I'm a male mage, he's going to kill me if I fail my harrowing. So what I come away with is this NSFW Halestorm vibe, which is all good and all, but doesn't really add itself to anything but fan service. Of course, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, as I said, right along with his being easily replaceable by Generic Templar #6. More will be revealed.

[Eveangaline]

Ya that was Lelianna, the one who fought alongside the GW, right hand of the Divine, the very same one who was working for Divine throughout DA2, and the one whose shown helping Cass at the end of DA2.  

 

Ok then. "Why was Lelianna randomly promoted to the right hand of the divine in da2? That's so dumb any chantry sister could fulfil that role, she's just a disgraced bard I think they only shoved her into a plot important part for the fanboys"

[robertthebard]

So he's a "creepy stalker" now? The shy young guy who lives down the hall and has a crush on you but is too shy to talk to you...yeah someone better call the cops! I mean I understand being freaked out by the part with him watching you while you sleep or wanting to peel your eyelashes off and keep them in a jar oh wait...that was Leliana.

Actually, it would be both of them, unless that's not what Templars do? They aren't there to watch the mages?

[Panda]

Morrigan's slides can show that someone resembling her was seen in Orlais, and as mentioned, she is directly connected to Flemeth. So I'm a City Elf doing Broken Circle, who exactly is Cullen? Oh, that's right, he's random Templar #6. The same applies if I'm playing anything but a Female Mage, barring if I'm a male mage, he's going to kill me if I fail my harrowing. So what I come away with is this NSFW Halestorm vibe, which is all good and all, but doesn't really add itself to anything but fan service. Of course, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, as I said, right along with his being easily replaceable by Generic Templar #6. More will be revealed.

 

That's still not fair point. Same could be said from Isabela and Merrill, they didn't have much of importance in DAO but were companions in DA2. Almost every character could have been replaced anyways, Zevran could have been another Antivan assassin, Sten another qunari, Oghren another drunk dwarf, Fenris another slave of Tevinter magister, Varric another surface dwarf. What makes Cullen to make sense in the DAI is writers job, he could have been different templar but he has been chosen to be Cullen like every other character is chosen to be someone as well. BW could have made new character but they are known with bringing back old characters. I like it cause it adds continuity between games.

[Nefla]

Ya that was Lelianna, the one who fought alongside the GW, right hand of the Divine, the very same one who was working for Divine throughout DA2, and the one whose shown helping Cass at the end of DA2.  

Don't forget miraculously raised from the dead!

 

Actually, it would be both of them, unless that's not what Templars do? They aren't there to watch the mages?

As long as we admit that nannys are creepy stalkers of children and bodyguards are creepy stalkers of their clients.

[robertthebard]

Ok then. "Why was Lelianna randomly promoted to the right hand of the divine in da2? That's so dumb any chantry sister could fulfil that role, she's just a disgraced bard I think they only shoved her into a plot important part for the fanboys"

Grasping a bit? It's not like she wasn't involved in Thedas shaking events in Origins or anything, or that her devotion to the Chantry wasn't evident from the moment you meet her. It's not like she's ever been to Orlais either. Oh, wait...

We can, however, play this all night. Alistair could have been replaced by any generic character, as could any party members. They are, after all, fictional characters who's existence stems directly from the imagination of writers. In Origins, Cullen was a nobody to 5/6 of the Origin stories. He's only marginally relevant to the Mage story, and marginally more relevant if you're a female mage. His leap to second in command in Kirkwall was a stretch from my perspective, but search the DA ][ forums and see if I raised a fuss. Let me save you some time, it didn't happen. This thread is the only time I've mentioned it, and frankly, I mentioned it because my opinion was asked for, along with everyone else's taking part in the dialog. I gave it. I'd apologize that my opinion rubs you the wrong way, if I felt it was warranted, but it's not. My opinion shouldn't sway you one bit towards him if you like him. I don't have an issue with that, and have really tried to make that clear. I do feel badly that you get stuck on the fact that I don't care about him one way or the other, but what am I supposed to do? Change my viewpoint so that you can feel better? Not going to happen.

[Cyrax86]

Ok then. "Why was Lelianna randomly promoted to the right hand of the divine in da2? That's so dumb any chantry sister could fulfil that role, she's just a disgraced bard I think they only shoved her into a plot important part for the fanboys"

( unresolved plot/story ) We don't know why or when she was given this title, we also don't know what she has been doing for the Divine. She was a Bard spy who was betrayed by her former master, the reason she got caught, maybe the Divine needed a spy, maybe helping with the blight gave her some credibility. 

 

    So other than flirting with a Female mage PC and getting caught, what did he do in DAO. In DA2 he did... he tried to arrest Hawke until meredith turned on him. So why should he be in DAI? 

[Eveangaline]

Grasping a bit? It's not like she wasn't involved in Thedas shaking events in Origins or anything, or that her devotion to the Chantry wasn't evident from the moment you meet her. It's not like she's ever been to Orlais either. Oh, wait...

So important she could end up dead. Or even turned down from the very start. THat excuse doesn't hold water if I import a game where I told her off in lothering. So great with Orlais she had to run from it since they think she committed treason, how does she even operate in the country that thinks she betrayed them? Why does the divine in orlais hire some random doglord girl who was a traitor? But I guess those screeching harpy fanboys wore bioware down so they had to ignore all that stuff to force her into the game ignoring all continuity problems to appease the "LELIANA IS MY WAIFU" crowd. Just think of what it would have been like if they'd had some integrity and made a new character? An actual badass right hand of the divine that isn't just some poorly put in fanboy bait. We could have had someone with real character.

 

 

 

( unresolved plot/story ) We don't know why or when she was given this title, we also don't know what she has been doing for the Divine. She was a Bard spy who was betrayed by her former master, the reason she got caught, maybe the Divine needed a spy, maybe helping with the blight gave her some credibility. 

 

    So other than flirting with a Female mage PC and getting caught, what did he do in DAO. In DA2 he did... he tried to arrest Hawke until meredith turned on him. So why should he be in DAI? 

 

So you can answer "what did lelaiana do to deserve becoming the right hand" by saying we don't know and that's fine. But Cullen has to have some super special already known reason to be in inquisition?

 

So were you whining about how Isabella got a role in da2 despite being just some random npc, did you say she was only brought in because fanboys liked her for the lesbian threesome option?

[Ispan]

That's still not fair point. Same could be said from Isabela and Merrill, they didn't have much of importance in DAO but were companions in DA2. Almost every character could have been replaced anyways, Zevran could have been another Antivan assassin, Sten another qunari, Oghren another drunk dwarf, Fenris another slave of Tevinter magister, Varric another surface dwarf. What makes Cullen to make sense in the DAI is writers job, he could have been different templar but he has been chosen to be Cullen like every other character is chosen to be someone as well. BW could have made new character but they are known with bringing back old characters. I like it cause it adds continuity between games.

 

I couldn't bring myself to play the Dalish origin in DA:O so I only found out about Merrill through the forums, and I unlocked Duelist but had no reason to remember Isabela.  It didn't bother me in the slightest that they were made companions in DA2 and still wouldn't if I found out they were only included because some people wanted to see more of them.  I didn't even really like Isabela but the writers made her relevant to the story so she deserved to be there.  Same goes for Cullen in my mind.  Even if he's got flaws and does stupid things, if the writers make him relevant to the story who cares why he was chosen?  We don't have to like all of our companions or advisors, just like we don't have to like our coworkers or neighbors IRL.  Sometimes people who dislike each other are brought together by necessity.

 

And Cullen has military experience.  When Hawke asks him about the Qunari in Act 2 he says "Should it come to open conflict, we are the largest army in the city.  We will be the ones to lead its defense."  The Templars are trained as an army --> Cullen is their second in command --> Cullen has experience leading an army.

[robertthebard]

That's still not fair point. Same could be said from Isabela and Merrill, they didn't have much of importance in DAO but were companions in DA2. Almost every character could have been replaced anyways, Zevran could have been another Antivan assassin, Sten another qunari, Oghren another drunk dwarf, Fenris another slave of Tevinter magister, Varric another surface dwarf. What makes Cullen to make sense in the DAI is writers job, he could have been different templar but he has been chosen to be Cullen like every other character is chosen to be someone as well. BW could have made new character but they are known with bringing back old characters. I like it cause it adds continuity between games.

Which I have been saying all along. How is it not a fair point that in 5/6 origin stories, Cullen is Random Templar #6? Because it's true? Merrill was only brought in because it happens to be her tribe that went to the Kirkwall area, as you say, that's the writer's doing, and she could just as easily been any other Dalish blood mage. If you'd never played the Dalish Origin, she in fact is a random Dalish blood mage. Isabela was at least tied into the story by virtue of who and what she was, and part of the root cause of Chapter 2. In so far as I know, Fenris is a one off character, unless you have heard that he's got a role in the next installment, and the same can be said for the rest of your list. So in the context of this discussion, Fenris is indeed a random Tevinter slave that escaped. I suppose that, since this is also true, you're going to say it's not a fair point?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Didn't Bioware say they didn't add Cullen for 'fanservice'? If so, this thread has no purpose. 

[9TailsFox]

So important she could end up dead. Or even turned down from the very start. THat excuse doesn't hold water if I import a game where I told her off in lothering. So great with Orlais she had to run from it since they think she committed treason, how does she even operate in the country that thinks she betrayed them? Why does the divine in orlais hire some random doglord girl who was a traitor? But I guess those screeching harpy fanboys wore bioware down so they had to ignore all that stuff to force her into the game ignoring all continuity problems to appease the "LELIANA IS MY WAIFU" crowd. Just think of what it would have been like if they'd had some integrity and made a new character? An actual badass right hand of the divine that isn't just some poorly put in fanboy bait. We could have had someone with real character.

 

 

 

 

So you can answer "what did lelaiana do to deserve becoming the right hand" by saying we don't know and that's fine. But Cullen has to have some super special already known reason to be in inquisition?

 

So were you whining about how Isabella got a role in da2 despite being just some random npc, did you say she was only brought in because fanboys liked her for the lesbian threesome option?

I never was rude to Leliana, Even if then Anders blow chantry I was angry on Anders because fire was not big enough. But yes what you write is so true.

[9TailsFox]

Didn't Bioware say they didn't add Cullen for 'fanservice'? If so, this thread has no purpose. 

Mike Laidlow announce Cullen is romanceable. "Guy was in two game, lets give him a chance" Varric is most favourite character in DA2 and this is not opinion it's fact. He can make as much sense to be in game as he wants, main reason he is because we all want it. Same was with Tali and Garrus romance we have it because fans asked it.

[Panda]

I couldn't bring myself to play the Dalish origin in DA:O so I only found out about Merrill through the forums, and I unlocked Duelist but had no reason to remember Isabela.  It didn't bother me in the slightest that they were made companions in DA2 and still wouldn't if I found out they were only included because some people wanted to see more of them.  I didn't even really like Isabela but the writers made her relevant to the story so she deserved to be there.  Same goes for Cullen in my mind.  Even if he's got flaws and does stupid things, if the writers make him relevant to the story who cares why he was chosen?  We don't have to like all of our companions or advisors, just like we don't have to like our coworkers or neighbors IRL.  Sometimes people who dislike each other are brought together by necessity.

 

And Cullen has military experience.  When Hawke asks him about the Qunari in Act 2 he says "Should it come to open conflict, we are the largest army in the city.  We will be the ones to lead its defense."  The Templars are trained as an army --> Cullen is their second in command --> Cullen has experience leading an army.

 

I played Dalish Origin but it took me while to connect Merrill from there to Merrill in DA2, she was really minor character there. However personally I loved that connection between two games, although Merrill didn't necessarily make much of sense to be in DA2, she just ended up in the Kirkwall similar as Cullen ended up there. I don't get why every character needs to have big logic or importance behind them being somewhere, some companions in previous games did and some not so much, it didn't make them bad characters or fanservice.