55 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

Well there's also the concept of precedent.

When something is called an abomination, it usually means "We don't like this, AND we never want to ever see it again, and we want to make sure of that." It doesn't just mean 'ugly disgusting monster'.

If you take the Collector's tech, you're basically saying something more like (in the ME2 state of Shepard at least): "This is terrible, it never should have happened, but since it did happen, I think it can be used." AKA you're less concerned about it meaning anything for the future, as long as you have something that can advance your cause today.
Mentally (though you could argue otherwise with some success), you're leaving an opening to Reaper tech being used again. Or for others to use it, and for you to continue its use in some form.

Exhibit A:
-Never used Reaper tech
-Emboldened to never use it in future

Exhibit B:
-Previously never used Reaper tech
-Uses it once...then a bit more..
-Comes to see it as useful, and may use it at times

Exhibit C:
-Uses Reaper tech whenever it comes up, uses it to its fullest (that the story allows - and most of it especially in ME1-2, didn't allow it)
-Doesn't see an issue with using it, especially since the burning on the stove doesn't really happen to Shepard, it seems
-Comes to see the ultimate use of Reaper tech, and embraces it



However, the story points us in certain ways anyway. For example, the most we can do to EDI is disregard her presence, which I think has some effect on the storytelling. However, she's always going to be on your ship. Overall, ME3 tries to at least nudge the player towards just letting technology either OF or FROM the Reapers be a thing that ought to exist, even if only for a specific purpose. I believe this is very much by design, and it shows an interesting irony as we wage war against the Reapers.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 30 janvier 2014 - 08:25 .

[shodiswe]

The story seems to be tat of the Reapers seeding the technology they allow people to have, then people started trying to salvage even more from the Reapers themselves, on their own terms.

[CrutchCricket]

StreetMagic wrote...
I'm not about to argue my viewpoint logically. They got one thing right - it represents a decision made with one's heart. It's emotional, visceral, moral outrage based, trampling on the sacred if you will. I don't have to defend it. I just fight about it.

With the galaxy at stake, you can't really afford emotional decisions and moral outrage. Or so the argument goes...

Obadiah wrote...
The books and the game clealry show Cereberus researching Reaper tech, and not simply accepting a gift or finding something and just using it. Omega, again Cereberus obviously researching the technology to use it on their own terms. The lesson there isn't the Reaper tech is bad, it is that Cerberus is ruthless.

"Researching" is such a vague term. Are you researching a technology to understand it and derive your own use from it? Or are you merely looking for a way to stick it in your existing systems because you think it'll help? Cerberus seems to have done the latter. And the lesson isn't "Ceberus is ruthless". If that were the case, we'd see them be ruthless and not just hear about it offscreen. What's on display is the "corruption" of Reaper tech on those who used it.

If you're trying to make an arguement the you just can't use advanced tech that you don't understand, well, that doesn't seem logical. Do you fully understand the technology or medicine you use right now?

Obviously you can use it. The whole ME galaxy is proof of that. The argument is there will be negative consequences if you just use it blindly.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 30 janvier 2014 - 08:43 .

[Obadiah]

Seems to me that is just an argument to use Reaper tech carefully, not to not use it.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Collectors want plague! We break fans! Kill you! Then Collectors make us strong!

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 30 janvier 2014 - 10:24 .

[The Night Mammoth]

The Reaper core was in the hands of the Crucible scientists for less than a day. I don't think that's enough time, especially not for an inert piece of Reaper tech.

[Obadiah]

Maybe the ex-Cerberus scientists know about it already.

[General TSAR]

Don't care, killed giant cuttlefish of death.

[CosmicGnosis]

Here is the entry for the Reaper Brain:

The Illusive Man salvaged the most valuable part of the human proto-Reaper under construction by the Collectors: its central processor. This "brain" has been reactivated for use as a computational device, crunching unheard amounts of data in nanoseconds. The Crucible's engineers are dissecting the processor, working in strictly supervised, drone-assisted shifts. While direct contact with Reapers is dangerous, the engineers feel the risk is worth the potential discovery of vulnerabilities in Reaper construction.

I guess Cerberus really was incompetent.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 31 janvier 2014 - 06:56 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Here is the entry for the Reaper Brain:

The Illusive Man salvaged the most valuable part of the human proto-Reaper under construction by the Collectors: its central processor. This "brain" has been reactivated for use as a computational device, crunching unheard amounts of data in nanoseconds. The Crucible's engineers are dissecting the processor, working in strictly supervised, drone-assisted shifts. While direct contact with Reapers is dangerous, the engineers feel the risk is worth the potential discovery of vulnerabilities in Reaper construction.

I guess Cerberus really was incompetent.

Cerberus is always as strong and competent as the plot needs them to be.

[Fixers0]

I've always found that to be such laughable plot point, especially since the crucible is supposedly finished before the assault on cronos station, but whatever, it's Bioware.

[Navasha]

That part was necessary for the brain-scrubbing part of synthesis that makes everyone peaceful, happy, and content.

[SwobyJ]

Navasha wrote...

That part was necessary for the brain-scrubbing part of synthesis that makes everyone peaceful, happy, and content.

Heh, sort of.


Seems the Brain promotes Control (and you could squeeze Synthesis in there easily), but so does the Heart as it promotes Destroy (but I also think it powers Synthesis).

All of it is using Reaper tech in some way. It's that the Control path welcomes developing along Reaper ways/tech and using it for our own, while Destroy is just a begrudging acknowledgement that Reaper tech is powerful and we can use parts of it, as long as we, like that previous example says, really limit our exposure to frequent shifts and individual distance (both literally and even extended to philosophy).

The only path that outright rejects everything of the Reapers is Refuse, and in that case, you're just left behind to die.

Sad, annoying, but also a fitting metaphor for technology. Either get on board or get left in the dirt.

In Synthesis, we don't just welcome Reaper tech, we embrace all of its seeming potential, regardless of what we previously fought for (especially if Renegade, but somewhat if Paragon). It's an embrace of what looks totally new, but totally fascinating.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 31 janvier 2014 - 06:05 .

[Iakus]

 Well, so much for Legion's analysis

[SwobyJ]

No.. Legion is right.

Shepard is different in ME3, just as he's different in ME2 from who he was in ME1...

[jamesp81]

StreetMagic wrote...

BeastSaver wrote...

The Citadel is Reaper tech. The relays are Reaper tech. Anything based on what was left behind by the Protheans, if not actually Reaper tech, is based on Reaper tech.

Anyways, there are some of us who actually like the lines in ME2 about the Collector base being an abomination. I know a lot of people make fun of it, but they can kiss my ass. That's their decision. I had my own.

Well said.

[Almostfaceman]

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 01 février 2014 - 05:11 .

[CosmicGnosis]

I just finished ME2 again today. I kept the base, and during the ending conversation with TIM, I was able to say that bit of dialogue about not sacrificing the soul of our species. I thought that line was exclusive to the destroyed base scenario. It's not. Shepard can say it in either scenario.

Isn't that interesting?

[N7Gold]

Given that information, it is possible that the Crucible was designed by the Reapers for organics to use. I can't think of any other rational explanation why the Crucible can incorporate the energy from the human reaper's brain and heart, link up to the Citadel and do more than destroy the Reapers.

[SwobyJ]

N7Gold wrote...

Given that information, it is possible that the Crucible was designed by the Reapers for organics to use. I can't think of any other rational explanation why the Crucible can incorporate the energy from the human reaper's brain and heart, link up to the Citadel and do more than destroy the Reapers.

Nahhhhhhh

[KevShep]

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

Heh, moral crusaders and their fear of violating their principles 

I believe that those who blew the base deserved nothing, whereas those who saved the base recieved the heart and brain.

So by your logic you think that its ok to give the base to TIM who is clearly indoctrinated? I think that those that kept the base deserve to have a major set back in ME3 that could cost them millions of lives more then the base destroyers.  

Modifié par KevShep, 03 février 2014 - 05:13 .

[AlanC9]

KevShep wrote...

So by your logic you think that its ok to give the base to TIM who is clearly indoctrinated? I think that those that kept the base deserve to have a major set back in ME3 that could cost them millions of lives more then the base destroyers.  

ME2 TIM was clearly indoctrinated? I didn't get that memo.

[KevShep]

AlanC9 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

So by your logic you think that its ok to give the base to TIM who is clearly indoctrinated? I think that those that kept the base deserve to have a major set back in ME3 that could cost them millions of lives more then the base destroyers.  

ME2 TIM was clearly indoctrinated? I didn't get that memo.

ME2 the reapers were after humans and only humans...

1. It is told that the rachni were forced into war by Soverign...their(rachni) goal was not to harvest but to wipe out the galaxy.
2. Omega the virus was one that killed all but humans and it was made by the reapers/collectors. why then didnt it kill humans?
3. They were not making a asari reaper or a krogan reaper...they were making a human reaper.
4. If you are an advanced AI then you would have back up plans and back up pawns. TIM is the next pawn!
5. TIM is studying reaper tech and you just know what the outcome will be.

the parts to the puzzle are there...I saw it on my first playthrough.