22 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenousBear]

How many of you decided to not do the Trial of the Crows questline?

As I am playing a "good" character, I will struggle on whether or not to do the Crows questline. I have delayed talking to Ignacio but time is running out as all my treaty quests have been completed. I have hundreds of sovereigns so extra $$$ is not needed at all. I do not see any RP reason why my Warden would decide to work with the shady Ignacio and his contacts.

I know the implications of this quest on the Landsmeet. If you do not do the quest you will be forced to work with Anora in order to win the Landsmeet I believe.

[thats1evildude]

Defending Ferelden from the Blight supercedes ethical considerations and the Warden cannot defend Ferelden if he has been assassinated by the Crows.

Ultimately, my good Warden did the Trial of Crows questline because Ignacio swore that they would lend no support to the Guildmaster who had taken the contract and cease coming after the Warden once he was dead.

The fact that the first target was Arl Howe's men was just icing on the cake.

[Mike3207]

It's a fairly thin line between assassinating people for the Crows and engaging in battle. It's actually more a issue for me supporting the smugglers in Awakening. You have to kill guards in the process, which is more of a issue for a good character.

[Corker]

(It's so worth it, IMO, to find the Cryptic Poster in the Denerim Market that'll let you find and kill Paedan and Shaevra, and *then* take Trial of Crows. Ignacio's reaction is priceless.)

I've had Wardens take it and not take it. My Surana simply was not inclined to waste time on mysterious summonses issued by urchins in the market, and never even went to meet him. Pretty sure my Dalish also took a pass. She didn't want to get drawn into whatever the Crows represented.

But I've never had a problem working with Anora. (Okay, there may have been that time that Brosca totally promised her the throne and then totally gave it to Alistair, but she thought he didn't want it! But then he changed his mind and was all, "She's too much like her father" and Brosca's all "ARGH" and yeah.) But she generally ends up on the throne in my PTs, frequently alone.

[RavenousBear]

thats1evildude wrote...

Defending Ferelden from the Blight supercedes ethical considerations and the Warden cannot defend Ferelden if he has been assassinated by the Crows.

Ultimately, my good Warden did the Trial of Crows questline because Ignacio swore that they would lend no support to the Guildmaster who had taken the contract and cease coming after the Warden once he was dead.

The fact that the first target was Arl Howe's men was just icing on the cake.

That is true, but the fact that the Crow npcs were very weak in the ambush makes my Warden suspect their notorious claims from Antiva. They are more like a pest rather than a legitimate threat in my opinion.

Does ignacio describe the targets before or after you agree to do his bidding? The fact that Howe purged the Alienage adds some weight to the though process.

[RavenousBear]

Mike Smith wrote...

It's a fairly thin line between assassinating people for the Crows and engaging in battle. It's actually more a issue for me supporting the smugglers in Awakening. You have to kill guards in the process, which is more of a issue for a good character.

If I recall, the quest involves hunting soldiers/mercs and assassinating a representative from Orzammar? Gainley something? That is the one that is dubious.

[RavenousBear]

Corker wrote...

(It's so worth it, IMO, to find the Cryptic Poster in the Denerim Market that'll let you find and kill Paedan and Shaevra, and *then* take Trial of Crows. Ignacio's reaction is priceless.)

I've had Wardens take it and not take it. My Surana simply was not inclined to waste time on mysterious summonses issued by urchins in the market, and never even went to meet him. Pretty sure my Dalish also took a pass. She didn't want to get drawn into whatever the Crows represented.

But I've never had a problem working with Anora. (Okay, there may have been that time that Brosca totally promised her the throne and then totally gave it to Alistair, but she thought he didn't want it! But then he changed his mind and was all, "She's too much like her father" and Brosca's all "ARGH" and yeah.) But she generally ends up on the throne in my PTs, frequently alone.

I always visit the Pearl and then read the poster since curiosity always get the better of my Wardens. Nothing wrong with self-defense during an ambush in my books.

Anora is alright but certainly not viable imo to be a solo ruler based on the events during the Blight. I never betrayed her as I did not make sense to reveal her disguise infront of Loghain's minion in the Estate, and common sense dictates not to mention you want to kill Loghain in the conversation. However, I like having options and I am not sure if it will be a Ali + Anora or Alistair solo playthrough. I am not too keen on backstabbing her in the Landsmeet either.

[Corker]

LoneWolf8588 wrote...

Does ignacio describe the targets before or after you agree to do his bidding? The fact that Howe purged the Alienage adds some weight to the though process.

He tells you that there is a letter describing a something which may be of interest to you in the chest behind him.  If it is indeed interesting to you, you may return later and perhaps find another thing in the chest.

(If you press him, he gets very exasperated and spells it out: assassination requests in chest, then rewards in chest.)

If you object to an assassination, you can just not do it.  He makes it pretty clear that there's no penalty for not doing the jobs - he won't come after you or anything.  You won't finish the questline, but them's the breaks.

Modifié par Corker, 31 janvier 2014 - 03:03 .

[thats1evildude]

LoneWolf8588 wrote...

That is true, but the fact that the Crow npcs were very weak in the ambush makes my Warden suspect their notorious claims from Antiva. They are more like a pest rather than a legitimate threat in my opinion.

I suspect that most of those NPCs were just mooks hired by Zevran and Zevran was the only true Crow in that ambush. The other Crow ambush that occurs later in the game is a fairly difficult encounter.

[RavenousBear]

Corker wrote...

LoneWolf8588 wrote...

Does ignacio describe the targets before or after you agree to do his bidding? The fact that Howe purged the Alienage adds some weight to the though process.

He tells you that there is a letter describing a something which may be of interest to you in the chest behind him.  If it is indeed interesting to you, you may return later and perhaps find another thing in the chest.

(If you press him, he gets very exasperated and spells it out: assassination requests in chest, then rewards in chest.)

If you object to an assassination, you can just not do it.  He makes it pretty clear that there's no penalty for not doing the jobs - he won't come after you or anything.  You won't finish the questline, but them's the breaks.

I see. I am not sure if my memory is correct but is there one of those "I need to think about" dialogue options when he asks you to accept his offer? I was just wondering if that option existed, perhaps I could choose that dialogue, return to Ignacio and maybe he will share more details about his plan. I know that works sometimes for other npcs handing out quests in the campaign.

[RavenousBear]

thats1evildude wrote...

LoneWolf8588 wrote...

That is true, but the fact that the Crow npcs were very weak in the ambush makes my Warden suspect their notorious claims from Antiva. They are more like a pest rather than a legitimate threat in my opinion.

I suspect that most of those NPCs were just mooks hired by Zevran and Zevran was the only true Crow in that ambush. The other Crow ambush that occurs later in the game is a fairly difficult encounter.

The game is not clear if they were indeed Crows or just some street thugs Zevran hired as battle fodder. I do not remember the Tailesin encounter being very challenging as I always had Zevran fight with me and the assassins are very vulnerable to warriors and mages. Mages are the real bane of this game imo.

[metatheurgist]

LoneWolf8588 wrote...
That is true, but the fact that the Crow npcs were very weak in the ambush makes my Warden suspect their notorious claims from Antiva. They are more like a pest rather than a legitimate threat in my opinion.

If you spoke to Zevran then you'd know there's a reason why that encounter is weak.

[Corker]

LoneWolf8588 wrote...

I see. I am not sure if my memory is correct but is there one of those "I need to think about" dialogue options when he asks you to accept his offer? I was just wondering if that option existed, perhaps I could choose that dialogue, return to Ignacio and maybe he will share more details about his plan. I know that works sometimes for other npcs handing out quests in the campaign.

I don't remember, but I don't think so.  The details of all of the quests are handled via... you quest log, I think. Some kind of text. 

Unless the Warden plays *really* dumb, forcing him to spell things out, he's trying to not out and *say*, "Hey, please kill these people."  So it's up to you to open the chest and take out the letter, which will give you a quest description. There is no broader plan; he's got more contracts than Crows, and has pulled a few which target people he thinks the Warden might have his/her own reasons to kill.  If you wanna kill 'em, he'll pay for it.

You can interact with the first set of targets, but they have their own reasons for wanting to kill you, so you can't peacefully warn them.  The second don't have dialogue at all; the third *might,* I don't remember.  I *think* he goes auto-hostile when you see him, but maybe you can speak with him?  (Given who he is, and who you are, auto-attack is not an unreasonable reaction.)

If you do all three of those, I believe Ignacio does speak with you about a fourth job possibility (He says something like "Warden, there is one more thing" after you've checked the chest for your last payment.)  You won't be able to negotiate with the target of that job, either.

[sylvanaerie]

Well, ultimately the end result works out. The warden gets an additional vote in the Landsmeet, and gets to take down some enemies of his cause, fighting Howe and Loghain's men. They aren't random citizens. One is even a vile kidnapper who took a child! Even the Ambassador is one of Loghain's flunkies.

Once I figured out what to do, (ie how to trigger the quest line) my wardens usually took the jobs. Anything to tear down Loghain's power base as much as possible prior to confronting him.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 31 janvier 2014 - 01:08 .

[RavenousBear]

Corker wrote...

LoneWolf8588 wrote...

I see. I am not sure if my memory is correct but is there one of those "I need to think about" dialogue options when he asks you to accept his offer? I was just wondering if that option existed, perhaps I could choose that dialogue, return to Ignacio and maybe he will share more details about his plan. I know that works sometimes for other npcs handing out quests in the campaign.

I don't remember, but I don't think so.  The details of all of the quests are handled via... you quest log, I think. Some kind of text. 

Unless the Warden plays *really* dumb, forcing him to spell things out, he's trying to not out and *say*, "Hey, please kill these people."  So it's up to you to open the chest and take out the letter, which will give you a quest description. There is no broader plan; he's got more contracts than Crows, and has pulled a few which target people he thinks the Warden might have his/her own reasons to kill.  If you wanna kill 'em, he'll pay for it.

You can interact with the first set of targets, but they have their own reasons for wanting to kill you, so you can't peacefully warn them.  The second don't have dialogue at all; the third *might,* I don't remember.  I *think* he goes auto-hostile when you see him, but maybe you can speak with him?  (Given who he is, and who you are, auto-attack is not an unreasonable reaction.)

If you do all three of those, I believe Ignacio does speak with you about a fourth job possibility (He says something like "Warden, there is one more thing" after you've checked the chest for your last payment.)  You won't be able to negotiate with the target of that job, either.

Gotcha. I think that pretty much clears any other questions I have for this quest.

[RavenousBear]

metatheurgist wrote...

LoneWolf8588 wrote...
That is true, but the fact that the Crow npcs were very weak in the ambush makes my Warden suspect their notorious claims from Antiva. They are more like a pest rather than a legitimate threat in my opinion.

If you spoke to Zevran then you'd know there's a reason why that encounter is weak.

But that happens much later, after the Taliesin encounter if I recall correctly?

[RavenousBear]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Well, ultimately the end result works out. The warden gets an additional vote in the Landsmeet, and gets to take down some enemies of his cause, fighting Howe and Loghain's men. They aren't random citizens. One is even a vile kidnapper who took a child! Even the Ambassador is one of Loghain's flunkies.

Once I figured out what to do, (ie how to trigger the quest line) my wardens usually took the jobs. Anything to tear down Loghain's power base as much as possible prior to confronting him.

Metagaming wise, it absolutely does help the Warden without any downsides. However, RP wise it is not very clear the results of this quest; Master Ignacio keeps you in the dark about the targets until you accept his quest as mentioned earlier in this thread. It can certainly be too shady for "lawful/neutral" good type characters to attempt.

[sylvanaerie]

Yea, I tend not to worry overmuch about roleplaying in the game, just doing what quests I enjoy doing. That's one of them. I especially love killing Howe's men ahead of time at the Pearl (usually while doing Stg Kylon's quest at the same time), then watching Ignacio stammer when I tell him about it. You may want to try doing it that way, seeing that your goals would coincide with his on the quests, allowing your PC to be more amenable to it (maybe). It helps to bring Zevran along too. He has some interesting commentary during the discussion, and points out Ignacio, while a 'cautious weasel' is pretty much telling it to you like it is.

[metatheurgist]

LoneWolf8588 wrote...

metatheurgist wrote...

LoneWolf8588 wrote...
That is true, but the fact that the Crow npcs were very weak in the ambush makes my Warden suspect their notorious claims from Antiva. They are more like a pest rather than a legitimate threat in my opinion.

If you spoke to Zevran then you'd know there's a reason why that encounter is weak.

But that happens much later, after the Taliesin encounter if I recall correctly?

Not sure I understand the question. When you talk to Zevran doesn't influence why the initial ambush is weak.

[RavenousBear]

"What's the password?"

"Err... Sausage?"

I always kill those clowns in the Pearl in self defense. They bit off more than they could chew!

That is one way of seeing a Warden allying with Ignacio for the questline. I never thought of it before actually.

I add Zevran to the party when I meet Ignacio to hear his dialogue.

I have not decided yet as I am taking a couple of days of playing the game, but I have a tendency to dislike shady/assassin-like characters in all types of games. Maybe my own bias is clouding my judgement.

[RavenousBear]

metatheurgist wrote...

LoneWolf8588 wrote...

metatheurgist wrote...

LoneWolf8588 wrote...
That is true, but the fact that the Crow npcs were very weak in the ambush makes my Warden suspect their notorious claims from Antiva. They are more like a pest rather than a legitimate threat in my opinion.

If you spoke to Zevran then you'd know there's a reason why that encounter is weak.

But that happens much later, after the Taliesin encounter if I recall correctly?

Not sure I understand the question. When you talk to Zevran doesn't influence why the initial ambush is weak.

I know that. RPing wise the Warden thought that Zevran's ambush was legitimate until Zevran reveals the truth after Taliesin is defeated in a later conversation.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

If my first game I straight-out refused to do any killing for assassins, and that was it. Ignacio was gone. I don't recall if Ignacio had said anything about the Crow contract on the Wardens' heads at that point. If he had, I might have reconsidered.

[RavenousBear]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

If my first game I straight-out refused to do any killing for assassins, and that was it. Ignacio was gone. I don't recall if Ignacio had said anything about the Crow contract on the Wardens' heads at that point. If he had, I might have reconsidered.

I played the conversation a few times since I had the opportunity. With the right dialogue options, he stated that he could not do anything about removing the contract on the Warden's head. He only said he could try to make sure the others will not heed his call for aid.

Regardless, he never mentioned anything about the targets, and tried to woo me with $$$. Way too shady so I told him to get lost and good riddance.