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Is Mirgalen Just a Troll or Something?


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#1
MagicalMaster

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Seems to be leaving REALLY crazy comments on the IGN vault.

Rated first module in Aielund a 2.50 (here).

Rated first Swordflight module a 4.75 (here).

Left a rather...odd...comments about alignment in Siege of the Heavens as well (here).

I'm sure there's more as well.  Presumably he's different from the "Beer Baron" guy or whatever who keeps spamming the IGN vault  but...what's the deal with this guy?  Is he a regular troll I've been missing?  The thing that prompted this post is the Aielund comment and vote of 2.50...I mean, really?  Something's not right here.

Modifié par MagicalMaster, 31 janvier 2014 - 08:11 .


#2
rogueknight333

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 Note: your first link, allegedly to Aielund, does not actually link there.

I have seen a number of rather peculiar votes left by Mirgalen on a variety of modules, but I do not think he is a troll, just somewhat eccentric. One thing to note about him is that he apparently completely ignores voting inflation, so that, for him, a vote of 5 would be appropriate for an average module, and a 7.5 would represent an unusually good module, even though most NWN voters would never give such low votes to anything they did not really hate. If he has any serious issue with a module it will most likely get a vote below 5. If you ignore his numerical ratings completely and focus only on his comments (which, come to think of it, given the inflationary insanity, might be good advice for other voters as well) he appears relatively much more reasonable. In the case of Swordflight, for example, he criticized it for being very hard and stingy about handing out rewards, both claims that, so far as they go, are perfectly true. I consider each of those things a plus rather than a minus, but tastes in such matters differ. In the case of Siege of the Heavens, he said that playing an evil character is not an ideal RP fit for that module, which is also true, if something that should also have been obvious from the documentation before he even started playing. Nor does he downvote everything, see for example (might have to scroll down just a bit to find it) his vote on Madness and Magic (a module I have yet to play, but one where his vote is substantially in agreement with the consensus of those who have), or on The Sunless Citadel (so far as I know his only 10, on a module which personally I found to be thoroughly mediocre, but if others enjoy it more, great). All that said, it is certainly true that his reasons for criticizing modules (or praising them for that matter) are often weirdly idiosyncratic. Among other issues, he seems to find needing to reload very immersion-breaking and thus if a module is hard enough to require frequent (or possibly any) reloads, he tends to be excessively critical of it.

#3
MagicalMaster

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rogueknight333 wrote...

 Note: your first link, allegedly to Aielund, does not actually link there.

Whoops, fixed.

rogueknight333 wrote...

One thing to note about him is that he apparently completely ignores voting inflation, so that, for him, a vote of 5 would be appropriate for an average module, and a 7.5 would represent an unusually good module, even though most NWN voters would never give such low votes to anything they did not really hate.

If anything that's voting deflation, though -- if we go by the grading system used in schools then a 7.5 would represent an average module (a "C" grade) while a 5 would be a bad module (an "F").

When people talk about grade inflation in schools it's because they think the average grade is in the 9.0s instead of about 7.5 -- not because the average grade isn't 5.0.

I get your general point, but there's a difference between rating a module you thought was decent but not amazing a 7-8 (as opposed to a 9.25, the horror!) and rating it a 4-5.

rogueknight333 wrote...

If you ignore his numerical ratings completely and focus only on his comments (which, come to think of it, given the inflationary insanity, might be good advice for other voters as well) he appears relatively much more reasonable.

Not if you look at the Aielund page, where he claims you need to be a full plate wearer to survive in a module that gives you two melee henchmen to start out with!  And then calls them useless despite them being vastly superior in AI and available tactics compared to 90% of mods I've seen.

The Swordflight thing seemed odd, the Siege thing was "Well, whatever," but the Aielund thing made me think "WTF, mate?"

Meh.

#4
Tarot Redhand

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Quite frankly he is a bit weird. He apparently has no sense of humour, ignores any other reviews and the stated intent of what the module creator is trying to achieve. As an example have a look at what he wrote about my module "Hrothgar's Resting Place", my rebuttal and the rest of the comments on that page. Oh and once he has commented on a module he apparently does not go back to answer any criticisms of his "reviews" either. SO while I think that troll is too strong a term for him, I also think eccentric is unduly lenient.

TR 

Modifié par Tarot Redhand, 31 janvier 2014 - 12:04 .


#5
MagicalMaster

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Good news, Tarot! Your score for Hrothgar just jumped up by 0.4!

And yes, he just leaves crazy comments and never answers responses -- nor does he ever consider asking for help if something is too difficult for him (even if something is not all that difficult!), he just downrates it.

I suppose I should be grateful that the alignment "issue" meant he didn't even vote on Siege because he'd probably give it a 1 or something.

#6
Pstemarie

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I'm glad I saw this thread - would have missed a good module. I'm playing Tarot's module now.

#7
Tarot Redhand

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Dang I wish he had commented on the new vault - I could have gotten more kama points (^_^). Thanks guys for playing Hrothgar.

<edit>

Could I request you leave an honest comment on the vault when you have played it through as I value all feedback.

TR

Modifié par Tarot Redhand, 01 février 2014 - 01:58 .


#8
_Guile

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Tarot Redhand wrote...

Dang I wish he had commented on the new vault - I could have gotten more kama points (^_^). Thanks guys for playing Hrothgar.

<edit>

Could I request you leave an honest comment on the vault when you have played it through as I value all feedback.

TR


Heh, at least you even get feedback, whooosh...  (Don't make me go there)

#9
Mirgalen

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I am not going to answer that but I think rogueknight333 already did that for me.

Am I a troll? In a way yes. A long time ago I played a very weak old pyromancer who despite his powers could possibly die from a simple cold. He was an AD&D character wandering somewhere between White Plum Mountain and the lairs of giants with a band of merry folks. At the time, the only way he managed to keep up with the others he capture a troll and used a spell called magic jar to borrow his body. The rest is history...

Why am I telling this? Simply to show that I am an old school hardcore roleplayer. I did not play with Gygax but at least one of my friend did. I was a DM before being a player because where I was located, nobody had a clue what a RPG/DnD was. I am/was also a chess champion and a wargamer. Some of you may not know it but Tactical Studies Rules TSR sounds more like a wargame company name than a RPG company name. Chainmail, the ancestor of DnD was in fact a wargame where single element called hero could join the battle. It should be clear why early modules were nothing but H&S. But then came other authors like Tracy & Laura Hickman who gave us more. We soon discovered that a module could have no combat, it could be an investigation, defeating some political plot...
DnD/AD&D were far from perfect, but in that specific genre sometimes called heroic fantasy they were the best. They were lessons to be learned from the game and applied in real life like I did, things like life is unfair deal with it, patience is a virtue, be bold and live your dreams, one should learn to take calculated risks...
When asked what the game was about and how to win my answer was and is still:
1. Your first objective is to stay alive (but in some rare case you may have to die to save others)
2. Roleplay your character, you can be anyone, hero or villain, it's free, it's a fun experience
3. Grow old/rich/powerful but only the best will make a name for themselves (e.g. I played Mirgalen for a decade in various AD&D campaign. He made it to ranger lvl 14 and died once killed by a spectre to allow his friends to escape). Most characters never made it to level 3, in fact most never survived their first dungeon.
One thing I would add to that because it has been removed form the game is that power must be earned not given or purchased. It means no free xp/lvl, no magic items purchase (as specified in the DMG). Would you be happy to find a ring +1 on a dead bandit when you just purchased a ring +3 at a nearby store? Now what if you just found the only ring of invisibility available within miles?
Note: Death is permanent obviously but raise dead and other means of revival may apply.

As a DM, I often created challenging encounters but always ensured that they were balanced (meaning doable without have to use raise dead except for boss fights) or ensure that there was a way to avoid the encounter and/or retreat.

Last but not least, because I play the way I play, I look for modules that would fit my current character (e.g. class, alignment, settings, geography...) almost never the way around except when I play a weekly campaign (MP). I tend to play (in no order) Bards, Druids, Shifters, Monks, Paladins and Fighter/Rogues.

#10
Pstemarie

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Mirgalen, after reading your brief bio above, I couldn't help but feel you'd just described half the people that have played D&D from the beginning. I've been playing for nearly 35 years, having started out with the original books from 1974, which my mother bought at a yard sale thinking they were novels. I quickly moved on to the Basic Set (Red Box) and then into AD&D. I've had my fare share of adventures and characters too, my personal favorite being my dwarf fighter that whenever things were at their most dire would roll a "1" without fail. It didn't matter if it was a hit roll, saving throw, or some other roll, that "1" always came up. I'll never forget when the party, having been granted one wish by a djinni asked the DM if it was possible for them to wish that poor Korrum (my dwarf) could forever more roll 2d10 instead of 1d20. The DM laughed so hard he blew Mountain Dew out of his nose.

 

Thanks for reminding me of simpler times.


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#11
Elhanan

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@ Pstmarie - Awesome PnP story! Thanks for the morning smiles!

 

I am also an Ancient D&D fan, and have been playing since '75. I have a set of those original books, and remained active as a Player and DM until aging and 4E spoiled it for me. And the ongoing NWN campaign that I was allowed to play for 5 years in this century are among the best memories of my gaming life.

 

Back to the subject at hand; have no idea what could have been considered so critical to rate Aielund so low. But I am fairly certain that I did not, so perhaps those low scores will be brushed aside Olympic style to allow for more mainstream reviews.



#12
T0r0

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Same here. I vaguely remember having to fill in the imprints on the plastic dice themselves with crayon.



#13
Elhanan

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heh! When I started, there were only d6's accumulated from various other games. One of my brainier Players crafted a probability chart for me that I believe is still around somewhere.

 

Telling folks that I started before polyhedral die is now somewhat a badge of honor! :lol:



#14
T0r0

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ahhh  the infamous crit and fumble chart,,  Now that brings back memories.



#15
Elhanan

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Not exactly. He crafted a chart that allowed me as DM to choose how many d6's to roll to cover a desired range of probabilities. I still used 5% low and high for Fumbles and Crits, but this made living in a time without polyhedral die a little more manageable.

 

And when AD&D and real die arrived on the scene, my DM chose black die with blood red pips as his Official die for Death ST's. Great games!



#16
Urk

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LOL!!!

A little dangerous singling someone out like this but I can SO see how you might think that. I certainly thought so for a LONG time. 

No. He's not "just" a troll. He's "just" WILDLY self-centered. He has no tolerance for anything that deviates from his personal tastes. This seems to be more than just a personal foible or quirk. His inability to appreciate different tastes seems almost pathological rather than just stubbornness. He does also have issues with understanding things like levity and humor, so I suspect his personal "eccentricity" may speak to some deeper seeded psychological issues. 

 

But empathy is not a required character trait for being able to play and appreciate role playing games, nor is it a prerequisite for interacting with this community. And his "Sheldon Cooperesque" love for NWN (which is very obviously sincere) makes sense for a person who wants everything done their way.

 

Just be aware that he tends to write very long posts and reviews full of elaborately and meticulously crafted opinions and ideas but despite his passion and eloquence the vast majority of them have little or no value to anyone who doesn't share his exact vision of what NWN should be, 

Personally I don't even bother reading most of them any more. 


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#17
Mirgalen

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Urk is that you? The Urk I know is the one who did run the Urk's Greyhawk campaign and posted some movies on Youtube. If this is really you, are you saying that you (or anybody authoring a MP campaign I played in) changed it so that it would match my taste?

 

Despite the attacks and/or negative feedback I do want to thank some of the veterans players here sharing some of their PnP experiences.

 

And now to attempt to close this silly debate here a quote from somehow who shares the INTJ type with (real) me:

 

“My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.”

― Anthony Hopkins


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#18
Urk

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Yeah it's me. And yes... we have very similar tastes in games. Low magic. Low treasure. Resting restrictions. Perma-death. We're both old school hardcore RPGers.

The thing is not everyone likes that kind of game. 

You are without doubt one of the most skilled role players it has ever been my privilege to meet. You're also painfully smart. 

But I also have to stand by my previous post. You do tend to be a little inflexible. You have kinda messed up some of the vault scores on some pretty good modules and created some unnecessary friction in the boards because of your tendency to confuse content that you don't like with content that's bad.

For example. I don't tend to like munchkins. I would never play a munchkin mod, but if I did I certainly wouldn't vote it down or give the builder a hard time on the boards just because it didn't cater to my particular taste. At worst I would just not rate it. There are a LOT of munchkins out there (well, fewer now but still some) and they have every right to build and play without us giving them a hard time about it. 

That's why when things get hot around you I tend to lose interest in the thread. Many of your long passionate posts could just as easily be summed up as, "I just didn't like it." And that's fine. But I kinda go into the post knowing what you're going to say and that kinda sucks the fun out of it. 

I love you dude. but you need to lighten up on the folks who prefer different gaming styles be it monty haul or monty python. When you don't like something just because it doesn't suit your personal tastes all you do by harping on it is create unnecessary friction in an altogether too small and intimate community. There's nothing wrong with leaving it at, "Just not my cup of tea".

For what it's worth the reason I feel I know you so well is because I relate to you. You remind me a lot of a guy I shave with every morning. :\


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#19
henesua

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I love you guys!



#20
Tarot Redhand

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Having double checked the vault, I can only find an ancient (2005) mp campaign(s), emphasised as not being a pw, reference for Mirgalen and a single entry in the ideas section on there. So what is my point? Well as Mirgalen has stated that they are a dm of many years standing and (he/she) has some strong opinions on what they like in a module I do find it odd that they haven't constructed and released into the wider world at the very least a sp module of their own. It cannot be for lack of imagination and it cannot be for lack of technical skill as I am sure that there are still plenty of people on here would help with that. Maybe it's just Mirgalen hasn't got around to it yet.

 

Or to put it another way... When they can't find a module that satisfies them, a lot of people make their own (apparently this is also true of books). They have this need and do it even if only to say "Now that is what I call a module".

 

@Urk, I think that Mirgalen may have changed a little since you knew them then. You say that they enjoyed low treasure modules yet that is one of the things that they said was a con (as opposed to a pro), their precise words were 

 

the lack of decent loot

, in their micro review of Hrothgar's Resting Place.

 

Hint there are better places to have a micro spat than the vault page for my module "Hrothgar's Resting Place" and I don't care who started it!

 

TR



#21
Phyte

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Well met.

Eccentric, yes. A troll, no. I have learnt much from his/her posts over the years. Do keep posting. In short, a character that needs no scripting.

--

Phyte: My heart has been locked for so long.
Sharwyn: Done. And done.

#22
MagicalMaster

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When asked what the game was about and how to win my answer was and is still:
1. Your first objective is to stay alive (but in some rare case you may have to die to save others)
2. Roleplay your character, you can be anyone, hero or villain, it's free, it's a fun experience
3. Grow old/rich/powerful but only the best will make a name for themselves (e.g. I played Mirgalen for a decade in various AD&D campaign. He made it to ranger lvl 14 and died once killed by a spectre to allow his friends to escape). Most characters never made it to level 3, in fact most never survived their first dungeon.

 

Do you realize that many people think otherwise?  And that people make modules based on preferences which are different from yours?  If someone likes tons of high powered magic items and makes a module which has those, does that mean someone who likes low magic modules should rate their module as terrible simply because it's high magic?  Or should you judge the module based on its own merits?

 

For example, rogueknight333 said the following about Siege of the Heavens (emphasis mine):

 

"This was my favorite of the submissions, despite the fact that it does some things that in theory I strongly disapprove of. Magical Master has altered some of the normal rules, provided special equipment carefully designed with a thought to play balance, and in general crafted a version of NWN much more console-gamish (or perhaps I should say MMOish, since he mentions being a WoW player) than the standard sort of NWN game. My own approach tends to be more old-school D&Dish, where combat challenge can often be as much a matter of strategically managing resources over a series of encounters as it is about the difficulty of any single enemy, and so I would normally regard some of the things he does, like providing basically unlimited healing and rest, as anathema.

However, I have to admit that these things actually work within the context of the very different style of gameplay he has fashioned, and he has managed to present me with something I encounter all too rarely in NWN modules: combat that has some real tactical depth and is a serious challenge. For that I am prepared to forgive him a multitude of offenses."

 

Do you disagree with the concept of what rogueknight333 is saying?  That even if you normally prefer low magic, for example, you might recognize that a high magic module is done well?

 

One thing I would add to that because it has been removed form the game is that power must be earned not given or purchased. It means no free xp/lvl, no magic items purchase (as specified in the DMG). Would you be happy to find a ring +1 on a dead bandit when you just purchased a ring +3 at a nearby store? Now what if you just found the only ring of invisibility available within miles?

 

So you're saying that any module that has magic items available for purchase is bad because you don't think you should be able to buy magical items?

 

In the case of the bandit, I'd be fine with it because I could sell it for gold.  In fact, I'd find it very odd if a random bandit had a better magical ring than I did!  I'm an adventurer, he's a random bandit, why would we expect him to have better magical gear?

 

No. He's not "just" a troll. He's "just" WILDLY self-centered. He has no tolerance for anything that deviates from his personal tastes. This seems to be more than just a personal foible or quirk. His inability to appreciate different tastes seems almost pathological rather than just stubbornness.

 

Yeah, that's the general impression I'm getting.  It's like he can't realize people might have different preferences and assumes anything that doesn't fit his personal preferences is bad.

 

Just be aware that he tends to write very long posts and reviews full of elaborately and meticulously crafted opinions and ideas but despite his passion and eloquence the vast majority of them have little or no value to anyone who doesn't share his exact vision of what NWN should be

 

It makes me glad he hasn't played Siege of the Heavens.  So far it has a 9.75 rating and that's from the initial release which has been improved on.  But it features level 40 only with auto leveling and the only items available are technically store bought.  Plus it has an item strip.  And many people will likely die a lot because it demands you execute fights correctly (and dying has no real penalty).

 

So he would probably rate it a 1.

 

I love you dude. but you need to lighten up on the folks who prefer different gaming styles be it monty haul or monty python. When you don't like something just because it doesn't suit your personal tastes all you do by harping on it is create unnecessary friction in an altogether too small and intimate community. There's nothing wrong with leaving it at, "Just not my cup of tea".

 

I liked the post itself (in more ways than one!) but I just wanted to requote this to emphasize it.

 

I mean, I personally like challenging combat.  But I have still absolutely loved modules with little to no combat that had a good story (a lot of stuff by Stefan Gagne, for example).  And keeping in mind the intent of the module is absolutely vital to judging it.  A story mod should be judged on its story.  A combat mod should be judged on its combat.  Etc.  Saying "the HeX coda" sucks because the combat is stupidly easy would be incredibly unfair -- and it's one of my favorite modules DESPITE the fact the combat is stupidly easy.