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[Hellion Rex]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

@Anovs When it comes to lyrium, I'm skeptical as to whether or not it is the source of Templar powers. However, you think the Chantry would let go of their Templars that didn't rebel? Not all of the Templars rebelled and some are certainly still with the Chantry. It's been stated a few times that the lyrium is the leash that is used to keep the Templars in order.

Retconned. To gain Templar abilities, you must ingest Lyrium.

I've only seen Allistair talk about not really needing the lyrium, has this been clarified elsewhere?

There was WoG a while ago.

[Anvos]

General TSAR wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

@Anovs When it comes to lyrium, I'm skeptical as to whether or not it is the source of Templar powers. However, you think the Chantry would let go of their Templars that didn't rebel? Not all of the Templars rebelled and some are certainly still with the Chantry. It's been stated a few times that the lyrium is the leash that is used to keep the Templars in order.

Retconned. To gain Templar abilities, you must ingest Lyrium.

Its actually hard to say for sure since the Templar secrets were closely guarded by the chantry for most of the time and have current Templars believing they need it.  Plus Alistar and potentially Warrior Warden disagree, not to mention never once did I see a Templar Hawke take lyrium.

[Grieving Natashina]

Anvos wrote...



Its actually hard to say for sure since the Templar secrets were closely guarded by the chantry for most of the time and have current Templars believing they need it.  Plus Alistar and potentially Warrior Warden disagree, not to mention never once did I see a Templar Hawke take lyrium.

That's purely gameplay segregation of the story.  The writers at one point did consider introducing an addiction mechanic for those that play Templar, including with diminishing returns.  This would have included ingesting lyrium if the PC wanted to explore the subclass.They decided it was too much of a hassle and scrapped it.

Modifié par Starsyn, 01 février 2014 - 02:09 .

[General TSAR]

Anvos wrote...

Its actually hard to say for sure since the Templar secrets were closely guarded by the chantry for most of the time and have current Templars believing they need it.  Plus Alistar and potentially Warrior Warden disagree, not to mention never once did I see a Templar Hawke take lyrium.

That's what Gaider said in a post some time ago.

[Br3admax]

Because rogues in general make no sense. As I explained, the teleporting and such. As to the lyrium, yes that very much does give the Templars their powers. I believe Alistair said so in the comics.

[Silfren]

Anvos wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

@Anovs When it comes to lyrium, I'm skeptical as to whether or not it is the source of Templar powers. However, you think the Chantry would let go of their Templars that didn't rebel? Not all of the Templars rebelled and some are certainly still with the Chantry. It's been stated a few times that the lyrium is the leash that is used to keep the Templars in order.

Retconned. To gain Templar abilities, you must ingest Lyrium.

Its actually hard to say for sure since the Templar secrets were closely guarded by the chantry for most of the time and have current Templars believing they need it.  Plus Alistar and potentially Warrior Warden disagree, not to mention never once did I see a Templar Hawke take lyrium.

No, it's been pretty well confirmed that Alistair's scene where he says lyrium isn't necessary was not meant to be lieft in the game, and that lyrium IS required. 

Besides, it wouldn't make sense otherwise. Where would templar abilities come from, elsewise?  The story makes actual sense for templar abilties to be conferred with lyrium, and just works better. 

[addiction21]

Mages... realistic.... should I bother even catching up on this thread?

[Grieving Natashina]

Br3ad wrote...

Because rogues in general make no sense. As I explained, the teleporting and such.

They teleported?  I thought it was just a smoke screen and then running quickly (according to the description of backstab.)  I have never "teleported" as a PC rogue before.  I'm betting the same thing is going on with the NPCs as well; they are behind a smoke screen and moving fast.  I'm not saying you're wrong, nor am I giving you a hard time.  I didn't see it the same way I suppose.

 I sent a tweet to David asking him about this.

As to the lyrium, yes that very much does give the Templars their powers. I believe Alistair said so in the comics.

Thanks for letting me know. 

Modifié par Starsyn, 01 février 2014 - 02:26 .

[Realmzmaster]

Qistina wrote...

Mages at least have 64 spells in DA:O, Templars only have 4.....

The number of spells does not matter if it takes only one spell to neutralize them. Cleanse (DA2), Cleanse Area DAO and Cleansing Wave upgrade (DA2).

[Realmzmaster]

Starsyn wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Because rogues in general make no sense. As I explained, the teleporting and such.

They teleported?  I thought it was just a smoke screen and then running quickly (according to the description of backstab.)  I have never "teleported" as a PC rogue before.  I'm betting the same thing is going on with the NPCs as well; they are behind a smoke screen and moving fast.  I'm not saying you're wrong, nor am I giving you a hard time.  I didn't see it the same way I suppose.

 I sent a tweet to David asking him about this.

As to the lyrium, yes that very much does give the Templars their powers. I believe Alistair said so in the comics.

Thanks for letting me know. 

Alistair has templar powers and never took lyrium. He states in game that he simply keep up with his templar training. Hawke in DA2 can have templar powers and not consume lyrium. Also which comic are you referring to. I have them all and that is not mentioned. Also according to the Wiki Alistair doubts that the lyrium has any real effect other than addiction.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 01 février 2014 - 02:47 .

[The Elder King]

@Realmzmaster: I think that in one of the newer comics Alistair stated that he had to take lyrium to use again his templar abilities.
Anyway, Gaider confirmed that lyrium is needed to use templar abilities.

[Dave of Canada]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I've only seen Allistair talk about not really needing the lyrium, has this been clarified elsewhere?

WoG, Alistair mentions taking Lyrium in the comic and the codex entry for DA2.

[Grieving Natashina]

Ah ha! Took some digging, but it's true. Without lyrium, the Templars can't perform their abilities.  Here's a quote from David himself.

source: http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html

Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards.

Modifié par Starsyn, 01 février 2014 - 02:57 .

[St. Victorious]

Lets say magic is like the radio. If magic works by broadcasting over a particular frequency, then Templars are simply magical white-noise.

Blood magic is like broadcasting on XM and the Templars don't pay the subscription to cancel it out too. So there you go.

[SgtSteel91]

I wonder how long it takes after someone huffs lyrium to get Templar abilities before they need to huff some more? I bet the Chantry gives the Templars more than they need to so they can get addicted.

St. Victorious wrote...

Lets say magic is like the radio. If magic works by broadcasting over a particular frequency, then Templars are simply magical white-noise. 

Blood magic is like broadcasting on XM and the Templars don't pay the subscription to cancel it out too. So there you go.

So then a Spirit Warrior is a warrior pirating it from a Spirit's braodcast station?

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 01 février 2014 - 03:20 .

[Banxey]

I don't think game mechanics are an actual indication of how these talents work. For example, a bunch of Templars fighting a Mage can't just spam Cleanse Area. When Evangeline fought the Mage who attacked Justinia, she had to take time to channel her powers.

[St. Victorious]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

So then a Spirit Warrior is a warrior pirating it from a Spirit's braodcast station?

Sure, we'll go with that. I would've said "relay station", but that works too. 

[Maria Caliban]

Banxey2 wrote...

I don't think game mechanics are an actual indication of how these talents work. For example, a bunch of Templars fighting a Mage can't just spam Cleanse Area. When Evangeline fought the Mage who attacked Justinia, she had to take time to channel her powers.

Then what is? The comics, animated movie, and novels all portray these things differently.

[Grieving Natashina]

Out of curiosity, how did those pieces of media each portray Templar abilities?

[Cyr8]

x-aizen-x wrote...

Could this be an Arcane Warrior? *crosses fingers* I really liked the Arcane Warrior when I played it a while back so I hope so. Big Sword on the back, using books to cast spells? Hopefully they will do away with the need to put away your weapon to cast a spell.

[Anvos]

Silfren wrote...

No, it's been pretty well confirmed that Alistair's scene where he says lyrium isn't necessary was not meant to be lieft in the game, and that lyrium IS required. 

Besides, it wouldn't make sense otherwise. Where would templar abilities come from, elsewise?  The story makes actual sense for templar abilties to be conferred with lyrium, and just works better. 

The answer would be that through their training and focus regimens a Templars learns to with concentration force open the switch which determines if you have a normal or mage level connection to the fade, unable to safely and consistently control these energies though a Templar is limited to effects caused by the surge of raw spirit energy into them.

This still however leaves open the possibility that it does help but isn't needed.

Modifié par Anvos, 01 février 2014 - 04:56 .

[leaguer of one]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...


Alright. So the templars use hails of arrows, balistas, and all sorts of manner of range combat. Or they'll have the rogues, and yes there are templar rogues, to sneak up to thr mages and then neutralize their magic. Either way, the whole range argument isnt very sound when you actually look at both sides fairly.

1. Mages also can use  hails of arrows, balistas, and all sorts of manner of range combat....With magic.
2.Mage Rogues ans mages have counter to rogues.

If you going on range combat, mages win out no matter what.

[HiroVoid]

Mage rogues!? We can multiclass now!?

[leaguer of one]

Anvos wrote...

Silfren wrote...

No, it's been pretty well confirmed that Alistair's scene where he says lyrium isn't necessary was not meant to be lieft in the game, and that lyrium IS required. 

Besides, it wouldn't make sense otherwise. Where would templar abilities come from, elsewise?  The story makes actual sense for templar abilties to be conferred with lyrium, and just works better. 

The answer would be that through their training and focus regimens a Templars learns to with concentration force open the switch which determines if you have a normal or mage level connection to the fade, unable to safely and consistently control these energies though a Templar is limited to effects caused by the surge of raw spirit energy into them.

This still however leaves open the possibility that it does help but isn't needed.

Dude, they need Lyrium and that is that. The books and world of thedas state so as well.

[leaguer of one]

HiroVoid wrote...

Mage rogues!? We can multiclass now!?

....Cole...