420 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

 The circle mages are not a proper represintation of mages in battle. They have no millitary experience, and they haven't learned how to kill effectively, they just learned magic. 

See, to meassure a battle-hardened trained warrior against a mage, you have to take a mage that also knows battle. 
Not the mage that goes: ''Yay, I can cast a fireball!'''' No.
Take a mage that is going to go ''Hey, let me just stand here and cast a fireball everyday, until I can't cast anymore, so I can build up my stamina, and learn to cast it quick by instinct.''
''Hey let me pay attention to fireball physics, and learn the best way to aim it''
''Hey, let's add some extra thrust to the fireball, so it flies really fast, so that it would be very hard to dodge even for moving targets.''
''Hey let's squize some extra juice into the fireball, so that if it's blocked by a shield it explodes and the shield wielder is all engulfed in flames anyway.''
''Now let's train against actual soldiers for a few more years!'' 

Take THIS mage and put him against your trained warrior, and see how long that warrior lasts. 
I bet there are a few mages like that in Tevinter millitary but not a lot. But circle mages are.. well not ''warriors''. 

[leaguer of one]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...



Mages don't spend their whole lives in the circle, as I have seen through dragon age origins. They seem to possess at least some right to leave the circle and pursue chantry supervised activities. 

It takes year of trust for that to happen and even then it all later was taken away.

Yes, because it's the untrustworthy and shady fellows who you want to give a lot more autonomy to. That's called life, you get to excercise your rights until you violate some part of the rights agreement made between you and the right giver, and then that right is revoked. It's why the concept of arrest exists.

I never said having mages gain the trust first is an issue. I am pro circle. The issue is that it can all be taken away with little fault or comprimise from the Mages...Which did happen. One mages who was out side the circle did something wrong and eceryone else paid for it. Added it was due to one circle templer order doing everything the wrong way.

[KainD]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

So you want to be the very best? Like no one ever was?

Uhuh. 

[leaguer of one]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...



So you want to be the very best? Like no one ever was?

Get the heck out....

[Nuloen]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Let take a look at some of the other weapons available to the qunari and dwarves. The Qunari have gaatlok which is akin to gunpowder. Gaatlok is used to power their cannons on their dreadnoughts making qunari a force to reckoned.

Saar-qamek is a poison that instills madness. What happens if a mage gets a dose of saar-gamek? Dwarves have explosives based on lyrium. Qunari and Dwarves are two most technologically advanced races.

Which says a great deal about why mages have not been able to take over. Dwarves and Qunari have developed technologies that rival magic and do not rely on physiology.

So you think their technological terror is significant next to the power of magic? Your lack of faith is disturbing...

dwarves throw bomb, mages just simply cast buff that have resistance over physical and elemental, or simply toss the bomb away using Force Magic back to the Dwarves

Qunari use Sar Qamek? Mages just teleported away...

So you think a mage can send a high velocity projectile like a cannonball back to the sender? No likely. The bombs the drawves use explode on contact. That means contact with any opposing force. The mage will still be in the bombs area of effect. The mage will not have time to cast a buff spell and a spell to try to knock the bomb away.

Also mages do not teleport in the Dragon Age universe as stated by David Gaider. It requires the mage to cast haste and an illusion to hide the mage's movement. The result may still leave the mage within the bomb blast. Also you are assuning only one bomb would be thrown instead of several.

As Arthur C. Clarke has stated in one of his three laws: "Any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic."

very simple
mage:create hole in ground, hides in it and wait until dwarves run out of bombs

only biggest idiot would try to face power of cannon,while he can get invisible get close to cannoneer and just impale him with icespike

i dont think its even needed

[Realmzmaster]

leaguer of one wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...



Mages don't spend their whole lives in the circle, as I have seen through dragon age origins. They seem to possess at least some right to leave the circle and pursue chantry supervised activities. 

It takes year of trust for that to happen and even then it all later was taken away.

Some mages have been allowed to leave the circle and start their own families. For example Wilhelm who was allowed to explore all over Thedas including the deep roads where he found Shale. Wynne was allowed to travel with the Warden. 

Any mage conscripted by the grey wardens was deemed untouchable much to the Chantry's chagrin. Let us not forget Ines Arancia the botanist., and Irving.

Mages who have gained trust are given a greater latitude of freedom. 

[Realmzmaster]

Nuloen wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Let take a look at some of the other weapons available to the qunari and dwarves. The Qunari have gaatlok which is akin to gunpowder. Gaatlok is used to power their cannons on their dreadnoughts making qunari a force to reckoned.

Saar-qamek is a poison that instills madness. What happens if a mage gets a dose of saar-gamek? Dwarves have explosives based on lyrium. Qunari and Dwarves are two most technologically advanced races.

Which says a great deal about why mages have not been able to take over. Dwarves and Qunari have developed technologies that rival magic and do not rely on physiology.

So you think their technological terror is significant next to the power of magic? Your lack of faith is disturbing...

dwarves throw bomb, mages just simply cast buff that have resistance over physical and elemental, or simply toss the bomb away using Force Magic back to the Dwarves

Qunari use Sar Qamek? Mages just teleported away...

So you think a mage can send a high velocity projectile like a cannonball back to the sender? No likely. The bombs the drawves use explode on contact. That means contact with any opposing force. The mage will still be in the bombs area of effect. The mage will not have time to cast a buff spell and a spell to try to knock the bomb away.

Also mages do not teleport in the Dragon Age universe as stated by David Gaider. It requires the mage to cast haste and an illusion to hide the mage's movement. The result may still leave the mage within the bomb blast. Also you are assuning only one bomb would be thrown instead of several.

As Arthur C. Clarke has stated in one of his three laws: "Any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic."

very simple
mage:create hole in ground, hides in it and wait until dwarves run out of bombs

only biggest idiot would try to face power of cannon,while he can get invisible get close to cannoneer and just impale him with icespike

i dont think its even needed

Except holes in ground do not protect the mage from a bomb thrown in the hole. Ask any soldier that has been in a foxhole. Also the other part of the bomb is the casing which produces sharpnel which embed in the person.

What spell in the DA universe allows mages to beome invisible? The only one who have stealth capability is the rogue. Since the OP is talking about the DA universe there is no invisibility.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

People think hiding in a hole in the ground will protect them from subterranean dwarves. Whose explosives specialize in mining.

Okay.



Good luck with that.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 01 février 2014 - 07:07 .

[Realmzmaster]

If mages are so overpowered then the best action for Bioware to take is to rampup the capabilities of the other classes to match the mage. For example make the Overkill ability of rogue even more devastating allowing for instant kills. Let archers have one shot kills with arrow of slaying and rain of arrows makes spell casting impossible because mages cannot concentrate while being struck or evading the arrows.
Allow characters to wear runes of magic resistance that can be cumulative up to 100% resistance.

[Grieving Natashina]

There is also another little problem with this whole "mages take over Thedas" idea.

The Qunari do not think the way the rest of Thedas does. I don't see a ton of Saarebas all leaving the Qun at once. So, not only do you have dwarven and Qunari explosives to factor in (and fun things like sar-qamek,) the Qunari would be using their magic against other mages that weren't submitting to the Qun.

Modifié par Starsyn, 01 février 2014 - 07:17 .

[KainD]

Realmzmaster wrote...

If mages are so overpowered then the best action for Bioware to take is to rampup the capabilities of the other classes to match the mage. For example make the Overkill ability of rogue even more devastating allowing for instant kills. Let archers have one shot kills with arrow of slaying and rain of arrows makes spell casting impossible because mages cannot concentrate while being struck or evading the arrows.
Allow characters to wear runes of magic resistance that can be cumulative up to 100% resistance.

Brake the lore some more pls, not enough. 

[The Flying Grey Warden]

KainD wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

If mages are so overpowered then the best action for Bioware to take is to rampup the capabilities of the other classes to match the mage. For example make the Overkill ability of rogue even more devastating allowing for instant kills. Let archers have one shot kills with arrow of slaying and rain of arrows makes spell casting impossible because mages cannot concentrate while being struck or evading the arrows.
Allow characters to wear runes of magic resistance that can be cumulative up to 100% resistance.

Brake the lore some more pls, not enough. 

We need to brake deeper.

[Grieving Natashina]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...


We need to brake deeper.

I brake for no one.  

[masster blaster]

IT all depnds.......magic is either good or bad to how people have seen it used, and how it has caused them in their lives.

The Templars seem like pricks, yet there are some that are not.

The mages seem kind, yet there are some mages that want to control the world, or just wreck havoc on the world. I just comes down to who do you think is right. Personally I stand with the mages at this point. I have seen how the Templars treat even the good and well respected mages that have done nothing wrong. I mean it reminds me of Merlin the BBC TV show. Not all creatures of magic are bad, yet some are, and Uther in Merlin is like A Templar yet punishing the good and the bad creatures of magic for personal reasons in the past, and because of how it is feared.

[KainD]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

We need to brake deeper.

They did it to mass effect. If units had armor layers they couldn't be moved by biotics, which of course makes perfect sense, since any unit that has ''armor'' actually has ''special'' layers that are not a subject to gravity. 

God.. I'm just thinking back to all of it now, they broke Mass effect sooo bad. 

Modifié par KainD, 01 février 2014 - 07:26 .

[Nuloen]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

People think hiding in a hole in the ground will protect them from subterranean dwarves. Whose explosives specialize in mining.

Okay.

Good luck with that.

if gaatlok has same power as gunpowder
then lyrium explosives are very very very (very very very 6times weaker)weak
but if gaatlok is as strong as nitroglicerin(so you need holes in cannon so it wont blow up whole boat)
then lyrium powder is strong as gunpowder(and can be efficiently used for mining)


and they use explosives underground(closed in hole just for explosive nothing else)and thus its more efficient that in open air

Modifié par Nuloen, 01 février 2014 - 07:58 .

[Nuloen]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Nuloen wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

I think this applies to both rogues as well as mages:

http://social.biowar...index/7102545/5

David Gaider wrote...

The main purpose behind the ban on teleportation with regards to magic is actually to prevent two things: distance as being irrelevant and obstacles being easily surmountable. Gameplay often dictates that, in order to employ any kind of obstacle in a setting where teleportation exists, you need to create some kind of hand-wave in order to make it happen ("tachyon interference in the atmosphere has rendered the transporters inoperable!").

Technically speaking, what the mages in DA2 are doing breaks neither of these rules-- the mages are jumping between two spots but are neither traveling nor passing through obstacles. It's not supposed to be literal teleportation, either. The idea was to have a visual effect that travels between the spot where they disappear and the spot where they reappear... they're moving very quickly.

But that effect never got implemented, and thus the result really looks like literal teleportation. Which makes me unhappy. With any luck I'll have this fixed in the future as, no, mages are not actually breaking the cardinal rule.

well theroretically we can do something that looks like teleportation  but it needs POWER
break Veil, enter, close Veil, move while in Fade and then enter Thedas again somewhere else

Doesn't opening and closing tears in the veil take a lot of lyrium and work? And doesn't it also let demons and other unsavory things slip through in that time?

yes thats the point
you will escape and your enemies will have to fight demon, while you are safe

[Nuloen]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Nuloen wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...


So you think a mage can send a high velocity projectile like a cannonball back to the sender? No likely. The bombs the drawves use explode on contact. That means contact with any opposing force. The mage will still be in the bombs area of effect. The mage will not have time to cast a buff spell and a spell to try to knock the bomb away.

Also mages do not teleport in the Dragon Age universe as stated by David Gaider. It requires the mage to cast haste and an illusion to hide the mage's movement. The result may still leave the mage within the bomb blast. Also you are assuning only one bomb would be thrown instead of several.

As Arthur C. Clarke has stated in one of his three laws: "Any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic."

very simple
mage:create hole in ground, hides in it and wait until dwarves run out of bombs

only biggest idiot would try to face power of cannon,while he can get invisible get close to cannoneer and just impale him with icespike

i dont think its even needed

Except holes in ground do not protect the mage from a bomb thrown in the hole. Ask any soldier that has been in a foxhole. Also the other part of the bomb is the casing which produces sharpnel which embed in the person.

What spell in the DA universe allows mages to beome invisible? The only one who have stealth capability is the rogue. Since the OP is talking about the DA universe there is no invisibility.

truth   but what if mage can crate some kind of bounceoff roof

Realmzmaster wrote...
Also mages do not teleport in the Dragon Age universe as stated by David
Gaider. It requires the mage to cast haste and an illusion to hide the
mage's movement. The result may still leave the mage within the bomb
blast. Also you are assuning only one bomb would be thrown instead of
several.

you said it by your self

Modifié par Nuloen, 01 février 2014 - 07:54 .

[Grieving Natashina]

Bounce...off roof.

Edit: This fits better.

Modifié par Starsyn, 01 février 2014 - 08:02 .

[Nuloen]

Starsyn wrote...

Bounce...off roof.

it would work the same way like reverse spell in elderscrolls
but even with physical materials

bouceoff roof

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Goddamit.

[Grieving Natashina]

Um, no, Noloen.  Just no.

So, just make sure I'm clear here:

1) You're assuming all mages everywhere would try to do this or want to. Did you overlook my statement about the saarebas? And I'm sure there is more mages out there like Bethany, that just want to have a quiet life.

2) Then, they would have to sling spells day and night, with no reasonable access to lyrium to do it. Ignoring tiny things like fatigue, you assume that the mages will turn to blood magic. As has been proven by the lore time and time again, it is rare that a blood mage is able to resist possession.

3) This is going on while waging war with the rest of the non magical world, and demons running amok.

4) They are supposed to maintain a "bounce off roof" for aerial attacks.

5) While protecting themselves, somehow, from explosions underground.

6) How do you figure the mages would protect themselves from poison gas while doing all of this at the same time?

Look, mages are not that powerful in any setting at all. If you want to play god as a mage, that's what the cheat consoles are for. Otherwise, it's not going to happen within the world of Thedas.

FYI: How could I be jealous? It's a game. I don't take it that seriously.

Modifié par Starsyn, 01 février 2014 - 08:17 .

[KainD]

Starsyn wrote...

Look, mages are not that powerful in any setting at all.

They are, just not the circle ones. 

[Grieving Natashina]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Goddamit.

Yep.

C'mon, let's go grab a drink, Flying.  Name your beverage, I'll pick up the tab.

[Nuloen]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Goddamit.

u jelly                                            i want that easter egg

Modifié par Nuloen, 01 février 2014 - 11:00 .