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[Lotion Soronarr]

Rassler wrote...
Anders' short story should Answer all your questions. A full patrol of templars and greywardens, all organized and motivated, trained to defeat abominations and brood mothers, equipped to the teeth got obliterated and turned into blood and bone in a single spell that Anders cast. War can change people and except to see more like Anders in coming war. If a rebel moody mage with a help of a spirit can kill 100 people with single spell I shudder to think what'll happen if 200 mages do the same.

100? There were only a few templars there and a few Wardens. Not to mention that Anders was unconcious and they were discussing what to do with him. Hence, they were caught off guard. You'll notice that the templar that was prepared resisted Anderses magic.

[Lotion Soronarr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Some of it yes. Hopefully Disney's taskforce will pick out the best parts and keep them as canon for the universe.
I would be lying though if I said that the entire Expanded Universe was high quality pieces of art. Some of the stuff was absolute and utter ****.
Personally I hope they keep Boba Fett's survival of the Sarlacc Pit, and the Thrawn* storyline, the rest is more or less secondary to me.

Agreed.
The rest can burn in a fire. EU is horrible.

[leaguer of one]

Realmzmaster wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...



Mages don't spend their whole lives in the circle, as I have seen through dragon age origins. They seem to possess at least some right to leave the circle and pursue chantry supervised activities. 

It takes year of trust for that to happen and even then it all later was taken away.

Some mages have been allowed to leave the circle and start their own families. For example Wilhelm who was allowed to explore all over Thedas including the deep roads where he found Shale. Wynne was allowed to travel with the Warden. 

Any mage conscripted by the grey wardens was deemed untouchable much to the Chantry's chagrin. Let us not forget Ines Arancia the botanist., and Irving.

Mages who have gained trust are given a greater latitude of freedom. 

Wihelm was allowed by his country. And the issue is that due to outside circumstances those rights are being taken away.

[Br3admax]

Can someone tell me where the crazy started so I can go back to that point and start this conversation over?

[St. Victorious]

Br3ad wrote...

Can someone tell me where the crazy started so I can go back to that point and start this conversation over?

Pretty much when this thread was started. If you'd like to salvage it we could talk about mage powers and how to tank through them in DA2. 

[CybAnt1]

Start a new thread. Don't put "magic" and "realism" in the same topic line.

It's really hard for me to figure out how to make the impossible realistic. That said, in a world where the impossible is possible, we can discuss how the impossible should work. Just don't use "realism" as your goalpost. "I think mage AoEs should be this way ...." etc.

We can discuss Gabriel Garcia Marquez' novels, if you want, otherwise, those words don't really go together, as many have noted.

[Nuloen]

Starsyn wrote...

Um, no, Noloen.  Just no.

So, just make sure I'm clear here:

1) You're assuming all mages everywhere would try to do this or want to. Did you overlook my statement about the saarebas? And I'm sure there is more mages out there like Bethany, that just want to have a quiet life.

1.they wont have chance for quietlife if  there will be group of fanatics hunting them down whole life just becouse they are mages(becouse they were born,just becouse they exist)WE MUST FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM
2.Bethany fears magic so mutch so she didnt even studied demonology,
just imagine that you can practice magic from your 4years and in 20years old you still know just one spell
(thats why i want to have childhood in games, its pretty weird to be 25years old and still know just mindblast spell)

Starsyn wrote...2) Then, they would have to sling spells day and night, with no reasonable access to lyrium to do it. Ignoring tiny things like fatigue, you assume that the mages will turn to blood magic. As has been proven by the lore time and time again, it is rare that a blood mage is able to resist possession.

1.they have been possesed becouse instead of learning it from another mage they have learned it from spirits
(so they made a deal)
2. not all spirits are bad (transforming you to abomination)sloth demons arent even interested in anything
(they are demons of lazyness, practically super flegmatics, interested only about theyre existence),or spirits(good spirits)
3.spirits dont have to possess you in order to help you(spirit healers use help from good spirits from fade,weakening Veil so power of spirits can go trough and they are still torelated)

Starsyn wrote...
3) This is going on while waging war with the rest of the non magical world, and demons running amok.

thats why were talking(writing) about it here

Starsyn wrote...
4) They are supposed to maintain a "bounce off roof" for aerial attacks.
any better ideas how to protect yourself from airstrike(any attack from above) than forcefield?

Starsyn wrote...
5) While protecting themselves, somehow, from explosions underground.

well when you are in hole you are using enviroment for your own advantage only way how to ensure you wont get killed is to build roof (forcefield or icewall doesnt matter)and tataa you are in bunker

Starsyn wrote...
6) How do you figure the mages would protect themselves from poison gas while doing all of this at the same time?

Starsyn wrote...
Look, mages are not that powerful in any setting at all. If you want to play god as a mage, that's what the cheat consoles are for. Otherwise, it's not going to happen within the world of Thedas.

KainD wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

Look, mages are not that powerful in any setting at all.

They are, just not the circle ones. 

exacty
circles are just suppressing talents of apprentices, only aposates are able to become maleficarum(mages with unusual powers)and that is why chantry wants them dead becouse one mage can be stronger than all chantry fanatics.

[Tarek]

TK514 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Tarek wrote...

also if something is resistant to magic, a mage can always use the environment to destroy it

templar: " I have magic resistance, prepare to die..."

mage:" that's nice but this 2 ton boulder is not... so im gonna telekenticaly throw it on ur face... bye"

squish

Moving a two ton boulder requires concentration and time to move it is not instanteous. A templar or archer with a bow will simply end that concentration and the threat.

Also you are assuming that the templar will remain the same space and not close on the mage and enter the mage's space. The mage cannot drop that boulder unless he/she plans on dropping it on themselves along with the templar.

The mage requires distance to be most effective. The closer the templar is to the mage the more likely there will be a dead mage.

Or the Templar could simply nullify the Mage's telekinesis before the boulder even gets off the ground.

lol dont be silly

the concept of magic is that it comes from within the mage's "mind" and no one can control other people's minds... except mages , that rock aint stoping until it rests nice and easy on the templars face.... and though a templar can resist auras and spells he cant resist gravity, in the game they tend to ignore some stuff for the sake of story, but if they want to apply the lore of the world in DA, templars are just target practice for true mages.

a templar or any other non magical creature is dead meat when facing a TRUE master of the art, a true mage is considered a mini god in most games/storys lore.... gandlaf, saroman, Davith Fur, Alimixela, Jagar thane, Kael thas...etc

true wizards are usually thousands of years old, versed in magic and knowlege and need armies to defeat them

no crack head in a a tin can is gonna beat a mage that can bedn time and space, hell if the mage is REALLY powerful he will just summon a few fade horrors, or just blood magic the templars brain out from his ass.

[Lulupab]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Rassler wrote...
Anders' short story should Answer all your questions. A full patrol of templars and greywardens, all organized and motivated, trained to defeat abominations and brood mothers, equipped to the teeth got obliterated and turned into blood and bone in a single spell that Anders cast. War can change people and except to see more like Anders in coming war. If a rebel moody mage with a help of a spirit can kill 100 people with single spell I shudder to think what'll happen if 200 mages do the same.

100? There were only a few templars there and a few Wardens. Not to mention that Anders was unconcious and they were discussing what to do with him. Hence, they were caught off guard. You'll notice that the templar that was prepared resisted Anderses magic.

Details that can be interpreted. I thought a full patrol of grey wardens and dozens of Templars should reach 100.

As explained in detail in story, Anders stood against brood mothers with Rolan, never once he has seen Fear in Rolan eyes, but he was shaking in horror when he faced Anders. The important thing is Rolan stabbed Anders with his sword, a templar only tool for killing a mage and Anders did not even recieve a scratch from it. Templars cannot kill Like of Anders, as the story implies.

Also it was a single spell that killed all those people, what do you think would happen if they were prepared? Stab Anders more? lel. 

Quote" I don't see myself when I change, only the reflection in their eyes and the sound of their screams. My arm lashes out and silverite doesn't so much break as explode in a shower of molten metal. The sword melts, running down the templars chest, and I follow up with a wave of flames which scorch the flesh from his face, leaving only bone so hot it smolders. The trees are burning… the tent… everything around us."

This is delibirately making fun of Templars and normal warriors, all they learned throughout whole their did not help even the very least bit. They died like sheep.

[St. Victorious]

Tarek wrote...

a templar or any other non magical creature is dead meat when facing a TRUE master of the art, a true mage is considered a mini god in most games/storys lore.... gandlaf, saroman, Davith Fur, Alimixela, Jagar thane, Kael thas...etc

Well you just ended your own argument. This isn't any of those settings. This is Thedas, where there are walking magic off switches. You can't apply the rules of other fiction and expect the results to come out naturally. 

Think about the scene in DA2 when Meredith is introduced. A saarabas has a spell in hand, ready to end Hawke for good, then poof, spell gone and sword through chest. This is how it works in Thedas. 

[St. Victorious]

Rassler wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Rassler wrote...
Anders' short story should Answer all your questions. A full patrol of templars and greywardens, all organized and motivated, trained to defeat abominations and brood mothers, equipped to the teeth got obliterated and turned into blood and bone in a single spell that Anders cast. War can change people and except to see more like Anders in coming war. If a rebel moody mage with a help of a spirit can kill 100 people with single spell I shudder to think what'll happen if 200 mages do the same.

100? There were only a few templars there and a few Wardens. Not to mention that Anders was unconcious and they were discussing what to do with him. Hence, they were caught off guard. You'll notice that the templar that was prepared resisted Anderses magic.

Details that can be interpreted. I thought a full patrol of grey wardens and dozens of Templars should reach 100.

As explained in detail in story, Anders stood against brood mothers with Rolan, never once he has seen Fear in Rolan eyes, but he was shaking in horror when he faced Anders. The important thing is Rolan stabbed Anders with his sword, a templar only tool for killing a mage and Anders did not even recieve a scratch from it. Templars cannot kill Like of Anders, as the story implies.

Also it was a single spell that killed all those people, what do you think would happen if they were prepared? Stab Anders more? lel. 

Quote" I don't see myself when I change, only the reflection in their eyes and the sound of their screams. My arm lashes out and silverite doesn't so much break as explode in a shower of molten metal. The sword melts, running down the templars chest, and I follow up with a wave of flames which scorch the flesh from his face, leaving only bone so hot it smolders. The trees are burning… the tent… everything around us."

This is delibirately making fun of Templars and normal warriors, all they learned throughout whole their did not help even the very least bit. They died like sheep.

Just to note, the entire Anders short is a swirling vortex of plot holes. It only adds to the confusion with the timeline and derails his personality from DAA to DA2. Its basically meant to glorify his fusion with Justice, not glorify magic. He can't do any other those things mentioned in DA2. 

[Nuloen]

just theory that needs to be confirmed(but brobably true): templars cannot drain power from another lyrium becouse they use it by themselves, they cannot stop staves from magical effects,they cannot stop runes enchantments that means they cannot stop runemagic (Sandal), probably even spelltomes(that book that are used when casting spells in DA:I prewiews)if they are written using lyrium ink and also robes magical effects and another items powered with lyrium

so templars cannot stop mages absolutely

Modifié par Nuloen, 01 février 2014 - 05:08 .

[Wissenschaft]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Think of what happened to the Qunari invasion. What if the nations of Thedas united to wipe out all mages? The mages united might be able to do a lot of damage but in the end, I can't seem them surviing. But thats the thing, mages in Thedas are not united in anyway. The circles are all quite a distance from each other and they don't have many connections to the outside world. After all, most mages spend their whole lives inside a circle. What do they know about living in the outside world. Not everyone is like Wynne, lucky enough and skilled enough to have done more traveling them most circle mages can dream of.

Mages don't spend their whole lives in the circle, as I have seen through dragon age origins. They seem to possess at least some right to leave the circle and pursue chantry supervised activities. It may sound bad, but it isn';t being locked away forever bad. Plus there are the circle meetings, political advising, even private mage service that can all allow them to leave. Some do, and so pay the price of being supervised abroad, others stay instead. And then there are the faternities, and the mages collective, both groups that cross geographical divides and allow from communication with the outside world and each other.

Of course the faternities are divided amongst what they want for the circles, and so even with all the connectivity they have, they are still divided.

 

I was left with the impression that most mages don't leave the Circle. Being able to leave is a prievliege that mages have to get premission for and they still won't know how to survive in the outside world. Most won't have any connections outside the circle.

[KC_Prototype]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

From the Codex: Armed with the ability to dispel and resist magic in addition to their formidable combat talents, the templars are uniquely qualified to act as both a foil for apostates - mages who refuse to submit to the authority of the Circle - and a first line of defense against the dark powers of blood mages and abominations.

So answer is yes, the average Templar can beat the average mage 1 on 1.

As a side note, we all know Boba Fett would beat Darth Sidious. And Meredith did nothing even close to Fullmetal Alchemist stuff. 

Bobba fett was able to go toe to toe with darth vader and would have killed him if hadn't felt it would have been inconvenient to become enemies with sidious. so yeah:whistle:

on topic, spells take time to cast, and their mana runs out, a  templar can kill two mages, before the third completes casting, only to notice his/her magic has been cut off.

Exactly. He took on and defeated Starkiller, who was stronger than Vader who was stronger than Sidious. Boba just played it smart since he is a bounty hunter and the Empire has the fattest wallet.

Also yes, Templars can strike immediately while mages need a prep time per attack.

No, your wrong. In simple words...the force>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..any type of gun or technology. Also, isn't Starkiller's story non-canon?

[Nuloen]

St. Victorious wrote...

Tarek wrote...

a templar or any other non magical creature is dead meat when facing a TRUE master of the art, a true mage is considered a mini god in most games/storys lore.... gandlaf, saroman, Davith Fur, Alimixela, Jagar thane, Kael thas...etc

Well you just ended your own argument. This isn't any of those settings. This is Thedas, where there are walking magic off switches. You can't apply the rules of other fiction and expect the results to come out naturally. 

Think about the scene in DA2 when Meredith is introduced. A saarabas has a spell in hand, ready to end Hawke for good, then poof, spell gone and sword through chest. This is how it works in Thedas. 

yes nobody is able to concentrate on spell when he has sword in his chest:lol:(and soul is slowly going to the Fade)

[KC_Prototype]

I like peace but when it comes down to it, mages over Templars! Mages are bad ass and have power to destroy the world. Templars are just typical men, always fearing the unknown and magic is very unknown. Also, those are very good drawings of mages, are those concept art? If not, Bioware should surely use those characters and clothing in DA:I.

[St. Victorious]

Nuloen wrote...

St. Victorious wrote...

Tarek wrote...

a templar or any other non magical creature is dead meat when facing a TRUE master of the art, a true mage is considered a mini god in most games/storys lore.... gandlaf, saroman, Davith Fur, Alimixela, Jagar thane, Kael thas...etc

Well you just ended your own argument. This isn't any of those settings. This is Thedas, where there are walking magic off switches. You can't apply the rules of other fiction and expect the results to come out naturally. 

Think about the scene in DA2 when Meredith is introduced. A saarabas has a spell in hand, ready to end Hawke for good, then poof, spell gone and sword through chest. This is how it works in Thedas. 

yes nobody is able to concentrate on spell when he has sword in his chest:lol:(and soul is slowly going to the Fade)

The spell dies before the sword is inserted between the rib cage, not after. There's even a moment of confusion before Meredith finishes him.  

[KC_Prototype]

Just wait until the OGB rises and comes into full power. You will see! YOU ALL WILL SEE!!!! It will be like this when the OGB rises up.
SEE!

Modifié par KC_Prototype, 01 février 2014 - 05:45 .

[St. Victorious]

KC_Prototype wrote...

Just wait until the OGB rises and comes into full power. You will see! YOU ALL WILL SEE!!!! It will be like this when the OGB rises up.
SEE!

So your hope for the mage revolution is a 10 year old who may likely not even exist? Here's a curve ball, what if the OGB isn't even a mage? Snap. 

[KC_Prototype]

St. Victorious wrote...

KC_Prototype wrote...

Just wait until the OGB rises and comes into full power. You will see! YOU ALL WILL SEE!!!! It will be like this when the OGB rises up.
SEE!

So your hope for the mage revolution is a 10 year old who may likely not even exist? Here's a curve ball, what if the OGB isn't even a mage? Snap. 

You missed that part, when he rises up and comes into full power! So when he's like 21, you will see! Also, he will be a mage since Morrigan is his mom and Flemeth is his grandmother, they probably have some twisted spell to make sure. And even if he wasn't, he still would have power. Let the OGB rule the world!!!

BTW, how did you like the clip?

[St. Victorious]

The link doesn't work on my phone. Sorry bud.

But the fact remains that he may not exist and there's no proof he'll even be a mage. Actually, the DR is not in the "default" so the likelihoods of him being oh so important is almost nil.

[Nuloen]

KC_Prototype wrote...

I like peace but when it comes down to it, mages over Templars! Mages are bad ass and have power to destroy the world. Templars are just typical men, always fearing the unknown and magic is very unknown. Also, those are very good drawings of mages, are those concept art? If not, Bioware should surely use those characters and clothing in DA:I.

and imagine that power if we could restore(learn) ancient arts of magic or magic that was lost in time so nobody know about it
Eluvian
Magrallen (nobody knows for what it is for)
Lyrium well
Anvil of the Void (Spirit Apparatus,golems)

Modifié par Nuloen, 01 février 2014 - 07:08 .

[Realmzmaster]

Tarek wrote...

TK514 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Tarek wrote...

also if something is resistant to magic, a mage can always use the environment to destroy it

templar: " I have magic resistance, prepare to die..."

mage:" that's nice but this 2 ton boulder is not... so im gonna telekenticaly throw it on ur face... bye"

squish

Moving a two ton boulder requires concentration and time to move it is not instanteous. A templar or archer with a bow will simply end that concentration and the threat.

Also you are assuming that the templar will remain the same space and not close on the mage and enter the mage's space. The mage cannot drop that boulder unless he/she plans on dropping it on themselves along with the templar.

The mage requires distance to be most effective. The closer the templar is to the mage the more likely there will be a dead mage.

Or the Templar could simply nullify the Mage's telekinesis before the boulder even gets off the ground.

lol dont be silly

the concept of magic is that it comes from within the mage's "mind" and no one can control other people's minds... except mages , that rock aint stoping until it rests nice and easy on the templars face.... and though a templar can resist auras and spells he cant resist gravity, in the game they tend to ignore some stuff for the sake of story, but if they want to apply the lore of the world in DA, templars are just target practice for true mages.

a templar or any other non magical creature is dead meat when facing a TRUE master of the art, a true mage is considered a mini god in most games/storys lore.... gandlaf, saroman, Davith Fur, Alimixela, Jagar thane, Kael thas...etc

true wizards are usually thousands of years old, versed in magic and knowlege and need armies to defeat them

no crack head in a a tin can is gonna beat a mage that can bedn time and space, hell if the mage is REALLY powerful he will just summon a few fade horrors, or just blood magic the templars brain out from his ass.

You really destroyed your own agrument by mentioning mages and wizards from settings that have nothing to do with the DA universe. The OP is talking about mages and templars in the DA universe.

Templars in the DA universe are walking magic off switches. 

Casting magic requires concentration. That boulder will never hit if the casters concentration is broken. This is why mages have to invest in combat training otherwise their spells get interrupted if they take damage like an arrow to the eye.  Also considering the point that there is no spell that allows the mage to move a boulder of that size in the DA Universe. No mage in DA has telekinesis.

 The closest spell is Fist of the Maker by the force mage that pulls enemies downward. There is no magical equivalent to botics (ME) in DA.

[Nuloen]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Tarek wrote...

lol dont be silly

the concept of magic is that it comes from within the mage's "mind" and no one can control other people's minds... except mages , that rock aint stoping until it rests nice and easy on the templars face.... and though a templar can resist auras and spells he cant resist gravity, in the game they tend to ignore some stuff for the sake of story, but if they want to apply the lore of the world in DA, templars are just target practice for true mages.

a templar or any other non magical creature is dead meat when facing a TRUE master of the art, a true mage is considered a mini god in most games/storys lore.... gandlaf, saroman, Davith Fur, Alimixela, Jagar thane, Kael thas...etc

true wizards are usually thousands of years old, versed in magic and knowlege and need armies to defeat them

no crack head in a a tin can is gonna beat a mage that can bedn time and space, hell if the mage is REALLY powerful he will just summon a few fade horrors, or just blood magic the templars brain out from his ass.

You really destroyed your own agrument by mentioning mages and wizards from settings that have nothing to do with the DA universe. The OP is talking about mages and templars in the DA universe.

Templars in the DA universe are walking magic off switches. 

Casting magic requires concentration. That boulder will never hit if the casters concentration is broken. This is why mages have to invest in combat training otherwise their spells get interrupted if they take damage like an arrow to the eye.  Also considering the point that there is no spell that allows the mage to move a boulder of that size in the DA Universe. No mage in DA has telekinesis.

 The closest spell is Fist of the Maker by the force mage that pulls enemies downward. There is no magical equivalent to botics (ME) in DA.

just???? but he!!

1. if you will be hit with arrow in eye you would be probably dead(most of kings that died on battlefield died this way)
2.so what isnt in your spell trees doesnt exist in DA?so invisibity doesnt exist in DA?so using parts of human body to make frankenstein like monster isnt possible in DA? and what was that spell that throw tempar against that metal eagle during Last Straw?
3.i was(my character)shot or hit many times in DA:O and DAII and still didnt got interupted while casting