420 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Could also be a numbers thing.

Probably important to remember that there's a degree of dissonance due to the game being a game and us going with the idea that "getting stabbed with a sword once and dying" wasn't what we were looking for from it.

I can imagine how maddening it would be to fight the Arishok and have his impaling strike be an insta-kill every time.

[Nightdragon8]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Could also be a numbers thing.

Probably important to remember that there's a degree of dissonance due to the game being a game and us going with the idea that "getting stabbed with a sword once and dying" wasn't what we were looking for from it.

pretty much this, this isn't Mount&Blade or any of the "Simulator" games.

[darkchief10]

Conduit0 wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

Bobba fett was able to go toe to toe with darth vader and would have killed him if hadn't felt it would have been inconvenient to become enemies with sidious. so yeah:whistle:

No he didn't, and no he could not. The expanded universe isn't canon and anyone who references it in an attempt to prove a point should be slapped silly.


On topic: Though a Templar's abilities make them better suited to fighting mages then a normal person, they still have limitations, they can resist magic, but they can't out right stop it, a fireball to the face will kill a Templar same as anyone else. The Chantry kept the Mages inline through indoctrination, the mages are raised from young children to believe that challenging a Templar is suicide, so most won't even try to fight back, even when in reality they are significantly more powerful than their oppressors.

My opinion is as valid as yours, thank you very much<_<

In all honestly both factions are about equal. Otherwise this war would have been over by now.

[AresKeith]

DA mages wish they were Gandalf

[darkchief10]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Mages? Realistic? If you wanna talk realism, mages don't exist.

As far as realism in Dragon Age goes, apparently, mages are about as powerful as templars, but their power is actually noted. I say apparently, because in the cutscene where the templars attack the Kirkwall mages, the templars seem to do as well fighting as the mages do. However, when you look at it, I mean really look at it, you have to wonder why some of the mages let the templars get so close to them. Is it because they are scared and not prepared to fight them? Is it because they have poor aim? Yes. Is it because the templars used their own "magic" to prevent them from fighting? No.

Are templars meant to be powerful? That's what we're meant to believe. The only time we've ever seen a templar be powerful, is when Meredith dispels the magic that Saarebas was about to use on Hawke and co. All she did was dispel him behind his back, then used non-templar training to kill him. The cast time for mages, is about the only thing that templars have over them, besides dispel magic.

I haven't seen templars anymore useful in non-scene based combat than any other warrior. Granted, I usually play Reaver (and never Templar) when I play a warrior, and in scene based combat, being hit is a lot more serious.

@darkchief10. You make it sound like templars are ninja(s?). If there were 3 mages vs. 1 templar, the templar would have less than 5% (83.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot) chance of killing all 3. If 1 is busy casting a spell, the other two could very well be casting spells with almost no cast time, thus, the templar would need to avoid both of their attacks, AND reach them and swing whatever. In ranged combat, the aiming would mean they're a sitting duck for the 2 mages' spells

OP, I'm not sure what your actual point of this thread is, besides, "mages are powerful, templars are weaksh!t." You are clearly pro-mage, and possibly even anti-templar, especially by the fact that you referred to mages as "we" rather than "they." If you want to talk realism with spells, you'd have to be hit by one first. For all you know (well, for all people with a brain know) an arishok could be powerful enough to survive a mage's spell, and still keep fighting.

I'm actually going from the end of dragon age 2 of this with an edit on my part, one templar killed two mages who were trying to cast before the third was finally able to freeze him solid, so not ninjas, just sword faster than spellcasting

[Orian Tabris]

darkchief10 wrote...

Orian Tabris wrote...

@darkchief10. You make it sound like templars are ninja(s?). If there were 3 mages vs. 1 templar, the templar would have less than 5% (83.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot) chance of killing all 3. If 1 is busy casting a spell, the other two could very well be casting spells with almost no cast time, thus, the templar would need to avoid both of their attacks, AND reach them and swing whatever. In ranged combat, the aiming would mean they're a sitting duck for the 2 mages' spells.

I'm actually going from the end of dragon age 2 of this with an edit on my part, one templar killed two mages who were trying to cast before the third was finally able to freeze him solid, so not ninjas, just sword faster than spellcasting

Yep, that's being ninja. Managing to outspeed spells and kill the spellcasters both, then proceeding to kill the casting spellcaster, means the killer must have a way with evasion, speed and power (though most mages would fall to a sword slashing at them and making contact).

Modifié par Orian Tabris, 31 janvier 2014 - 08:28 .

[HiroVoid]

KaiserShep wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Could also be a numbers thing.

Probably important to remember that there's a degree of dissonance due to the game being a game and us going with the idea that "getting stabbed with a sword once and dying" wasn't what we were looking for from it.

I can imagine how maddening it would be to fight the Arishok and have his impaling strike be an insta-kill every time.

That actually makes me think back to the final boss in No More Heroes.

[Lord Watson]

My Level 20 DnD wizard to Darth Sidious

"Oh, you have "force lightning"? That's cute".

On topic

It depends on the mage and the templar in question. It also depends on the scenario. Does the templar think past "pointy thing goes in the squishy thing"? I'm inclined to think a high level templar knows a thing or two about dealing with mages.

Also, how is "the templar is armed with the ability to resist or dispel magic" irrelevent?

[KiwiQuiche]

HiroVoid wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

'Cause having a bunch of drug-addled religions goons round them up as children, indoctrinating them to how terrible and gross they are and watching them 24/7 seemed like a legit plan for the ****** Chantry.

Smarter than you think apparently since it worked for about a millenium which is longer than a lot of organizations can say.

Yeah 'cause the massive, continent wide war that's split open realities and blood mages left right and centre beg to differ.

[KaiserShep]

I suppose it also matters that there are such things as enchanted items that one could equip him/herself with to resist spells.

[Lulupab]

Lord Watson wrote...

My Level 20 DnD wizard to Darth Sidious

"Oh, you have "force lightning"? That's cute".

On topic

It depends on the mage and the templar in question. It also depends on the scenario. Does the templar think past "pointy thing goes in the squishy thing"? I'm inclined to think a high level templar knows a thing or two about dealing with mages.

Also, how is "the templar is armed with the ability to resist or dispel magic" irrelevent?

Spirit magic and blood magic cannot be resisted... much.

In DAO there was an anti magic shield in spirit tree that made you immune to all magic, including the holy smite and cleanse aura of templars. Also templar abilities provide zero to very little protection against blood magic as it targets the blood itself and their protections is coming from the lyrium inside the blood.

Also if the codex about spirits is true as we witness it with Justice in DA:A spirits can manipulate lyrium and since Templars have it inside their bodies in this scenario Spirits are magneto and templars are metal.

[Harlequin1]

Realistically, in the DA Universe, a mage can only really be as powerful as the OP said through interventions from beings in the Fade. Regular Anders couldn't have leveled an entire building and literally cause a civil war, but Justice Anders could and with relative "ease".

I really do believe Templars are literally the antithesis of mages. They were made to combat mages through whatever means they could find. Meridith just went with something a little too extreme. I mean, they had a millenia to study mages closely, so I really don't think they would have just sat there twiddling their thumbs while the mages they imprisoned got even more powerful.

However, I don't think Bioware gave us even the entire surface of what either Templars or mages could do, so I really don't think it's wise to make assumptions of a potential plot device (read: all out war). That is probably already in motion in DA:I and is the reason super powerful demons are pouring out into Thedas...

Plus, everything here is all hearsay until a writer from Bioware comes in and tells us what's what.

Modifié par Harlequin1, 31 janvier 2014 - 08:44 .

[HiroVoid]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

'Cause having a bunch of drug-addled religions goons round them up as children, indoctrinating them to how terrible and gross they are and watching them 24/7 seemed like a legit plan for the ****** Chantry.

Smarter than you think apparently since it worked for about a millenium which is longer than a lot of organizations can say.

Yeah 'cause the massive, continent wide war that's split open realities and blood mages left right and centre beg to differ.

I think you might be a bit mistaken there.

LobselVith8 wrote...
Aren't the mages venturing into an
alternative to Chantry control with the continential revolution of the

David Gaider wrote...
"Continental revolution"? You might be getting ahead of yourself, there.

As
for an alternative, sure-- the alternative is anarchy and warfare.
Everyone involved knows that's the alternative. If there's something
else on the table, we certainly haven't broached the subject just yet.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6901812/11

There's no proof its this war that's causing realities to open up and we don't have much proof of how far blood magic is spread in circles except that it seems more profilic in Tevinter where mages have more control.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 31 janvier 2014 - 08:50 .

[Harlequin1]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

'Cause having a bunch of drug-addled religions goons round them up as children, indoctrinating them to how terrible and gross they are and watching them 24/7 seemed like a legit plan for the ****** Chantry.

Smarter than you think apparently since it worked for about a millenium which is longer than a lot of organizations can say.

Yeah 'cause the massive, continent wide war that's split open realities and blood mages left right and centre beg to differ.

But that's not necessarily a point in the mages direction. Don't get me wrong, I'm pro-mage and sided with them every playthrough of DA2, but when reality splitting is coming into question, the mage is no longer the problem: whatever the mage let out is now the problem. The mage might as well be mince meat by the time he/she gets to the point of accidentally tearing a hole between worlds.

It could be a useful scorched earth method of fighting, though. But that is far from winning on either side, especially the mage's. That's winning for whatever hellspawn comes out of the hole.

And as someone else pointed, the Fade tearing open could possibly be entirely unrelated to the mages.

[Dave of Canada]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Yeah 'cause the massive, continent wide war that's split open realities and blood mages left right and centre beg to differ.

So we shouldn't lock mages up or else they'll rip open reality and kill everyone.

... I don't see how that justifies letting them loose.

[The Hierophant]

Qistina wrote...

My point is, when the Mages see that the Chantry is not powerful, the only thing that can stop them is their own morality....

or normal people who're tired of their bs.

Though it's lovely to hear how mages abusing their power, demonic possessions, and Tevinter's atrocities are Chantry hoaxes.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 31 janvier 2014 - 09:36 .

[Ieldra]

@OP:
Tsk, tsk. There I went, trying to hide our secret agenda of mage supremacism under a mask of reasonable benevolence, and here you come and trumpet it out into the world. Stupid, stupid. This way we'll never rule the world.

[Ieldra]

More seriously:

The Chantry controls the mages through indoctrination (here understood as tailored education, not some magical influence). For that reason, mages are divided among themselves. Also, people are usually afraid of conflict and they get used to their comforts, and that includes mages.

As current developments show, mages united can challenge the Chantry. If they can win is another matter, for power is only one consideration. Economics are another, and here the mages are notably weak.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 31 janvier 2014 - 09:31 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Ieldra2 wrote...

More seriously:

The Chantry controls the mages through indoctrination (here understood as tailored education, not some magical influence). For that reason, mages are divided among themselves. Also, people are usually afraid of conflict and they get used to their comforts, and that includes mages.

As current developments show, mages united can challenge the Chantry. If they can win is another matter, for power is only one consideration. Economics are another, and here the mages are notably weak.

Not rly if not chantry (well divine) they would end rotting locked by lambert.As far they showed nothing more than failures when that comes to fight with chantry/templars.Crap as i renember they don't have even single 1 victory in that conflict.   

[KiwiQuiche]

Dave of Canada wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Yeah 'cause the massive, continent wide war that's split open realities and blood mages left right and centre beg to differ.

So we shouldn't lock mages up or else they'll rip open reality and kill everyone.

... I don't see how that justifies letting them loose.

Maybe if it hadn't happened for a few centuries they wouldn't be going apesh!t. People tend to not like getting abducted from their families and locked up simply for being born. Who da thunk it

[Grieving Natashina]

I'll just let my favorite dwarf say it for me:

[Nuloen]

Realmzmaster wrote...

If mages are so powerful why hasn't Tevinter beaten the Qunari and turn them into slaves? Why haven't the mages taken out the dwarves? Could it be that dwarves have a resistance to magic and have a high tolerance to lyrium?
The problem that a mage has is that any spell requires time to cast. In that time a templar will close any distance between the templar and the mage which can mean one dead mage. Or an archer will loose an arrow. So who will be faster the archer or the mage? My bet is on the archer.

What about the rogue templar who can hide in the shadows? How will the mage detect his/her presence before he/she strikes?

Qunari took part of theyre territory and then things got quiet, so why to attack?
mages dont want to rule the land, they just want freedom and knowledge(with knowledge comes the power)(thats the part where they are dealing with demons)
so casting fireball take more time than running 50yards in heavy armour(i think your templar is very over powered)
and if mage knows how to use lyrium then templar has no chance becouse he(templar) can not drain the power from lyrium, just from mage and blood magic has the same effect    
apart from that mages also have dispell ability allowing them to fight against other magic users(so they could replace templars like in Tevinter imperium)

and another problem is that mages are learning magic within circle of magi and circles are forbiding some types of magic and spells are teached in the way that it will allways have the same effect no matter who will cast it
and thats why everyone who doesnt understand magic, fears aposates becouse they have lerned theyre spells theyre own way and sutch spells could be more dangerous(so now they are called maleficarum,becouse they know something special) than others(so if you are mage and want to become powerfull you have to be aposate,becouse mages from circles fear magic the same way as chantry that rules them and as keeper Marethari)

[x-aizen-x]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Could also be a numbers thing.

Probably important to remember that there's a degree of dissonance due to the game being a game and us going with the idea that "getting stabbed with a sword once and dying" wasn't what we were looking for from it.

Can you like explain?

[Ianamus]

I hate the "Mages are being indoctrinated" drivel that keeps coming up.

They are essentially told that magic is dangerous, they are dangerous, and that it is safer for the general populace if they remain in the towers.

And guess what? Each of those statements are true.

Even the more religious stuff only amounts to "Magic shouldn't be used to rule over normal people" and "Being a mage is both a blessing and a curse". Those seem pretty legit as well.

You may as well be arguing that forcing children to go to school because they need an education is "brainwashing" them. (In a way it is, but arguing against it would be ridiculous). 

Modifié par EJ107, 31 janvier 2014 - 01:12 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

'Cause having a bunch of drug-addled religions goons round them up as children, indoctrinating them to how terrible and gross they are and watching them 24/7 seemed like a legit plan for the ****** Chantry.

that's abotu as accurate as calling all mages "evil, immoral sub-humans who delight in suffering and cutting themselves, willingly givie themselves over to demons for power"