420 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

General TSAR wrote...

Well you certainly showed me, that site is most reputable I mean who can argue with fields like Magick and Shamanism.

Google "human virtues". Check the 1st page. None of them has duty as virtue. What else do you want? I merely posted one of the links.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Considering that duty is much more than simply following orders, I think it is safe to categorize duty on par, if not part of, other virtues. There is a strong element of moral obligation, self-sacrifice and honor in the concept of duty.

And to be honest, that still barely scratches the surface of all the different nuances found in what one can dub "duty".

[Br3admax]

Rassler wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Well you certainly showed me, that site is most reputable I mean who can argue with fields like Magick and Shamanism.

Google "human virtues". Check the 1st page. None of them has duty as virtue. What else do you want? I merely posted one of the links.

Wat? This doesn't make any sense. Being on the first page doesn't make you right. Most often than not, it means you let Google ad spam more. 

[Lulupab]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Considering that duty is much more than simply following orders, I think it is safe to categorize duty on par, if not part of, other virtues. There is a strong element of moral obligation, self-sacrifice and honor in the concept of duty.

But Duty as itself is not the key part here. You are talking about Devotion or maybe zeal. Duty is not a virtue, more like an ethic maybe that might envolve devotion and zeal which are the vitues you are talking about.

[nisallik]

Actually, the Expanded Universe is considered canon unless official media/content from a higher source (movies, tv shows, etc.) dictates otherwise.

Anyways, Darth Sidious could not be killed by Boba Fett or Starkiller - even if they decided to work together. Lets just say if they managed some way and got very lucky, he has a respawn point. ;p

[CybAnt1]

Faith? Well, our modern world hates religion, so we have no respect for it,

Generalization ftw. 

Sorry. This is what happens when you stick to a sentence, instead of going for your usual tedious verbosity. :innocent:

The point is, I suspect many players might question whether Faith is a "good" virtue or ideal as opposed to the others (I've seen people say so on the forums), but that is largely a modern attitude, as well as a narrowing of what one can have faith in. Plenty of modern people are religious, and have faith - and personally, as long as they are not fundamentalists, I have no problem with them -- but that is, indeed, highly off topic. 

Modifié par CybAnt1, 31 janvier 2014 - 03:43 .

[Hellion Rex]

nisallik wrote...

Actually, the Expanded Universe is considered canon unless official media/content from a higher source (movies, tv shows, etc.) dictates otherwise.

Anyways, Darth Sidious could not be killed by Boba Fett or Starkiller - even if they decided to work together. Lets just say if they managed some way and got very lucky, he has a respawn point. ;p

Well yeah, cause he could transfer his life force into another clone body, which he did...3 times, I think?

[Lulupab]

Br3ad wrote...

Rassler wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Well you certainly showed me, that site is most reputable I mean who can argue with fields like Magick and Shamanism.

Google "human virtues". Check the 1st page. None of them has duty as virtue. What else do you want? I merely posted one of the links.

Wat? This doesn't make any sense. Being on the first page doesn't make you right. Most often than not, it means you let Google ad spam more. 

Well it brought links from universities and legal sites. All you have to do is to look them up. There is no single source that has listed Duty as virtue.

I even searched "Duty Virtue". It brought up articles explaining why Duty is not a virtue but an ethic lol.

[The Elder King]

@Rassler: the fact is that if some mages will commit crimes, a spirit of Justice would want the punished. And that could be death. I don't know how well an alliance could work. Beside, they found learn what happens in the Imperium, and some of them could think that non-mages need Justice. That means the could either go to the Imperium and fight it, or turn against Mages. Or they could follow another battle for justice. There are plently possible inThedas.
Anyway, you haven't responded to my question: why would mages want to merge to spirits, when they might know that it's dangerous and they could corrupt the spirits and became abominations?

[EmperorSahlertz]

nisallik wrote...

Actually, the Expanded Universe is considered canon unless official media/content from a higher source (movies, tv shows, etc.) dictates otherwise.

Anyways, Darth Sidious could not be killed by Boba Fett or Starkiller - even if they decided to work together. Lets just say if they managed some way and got very lucky, he has a respawn point. ;p

The entirety of the expanded universe is currently in a state of limbo, while Disney's taskforce goes through the lore and pick the parts the like, and discards the parts they don't like.
So as it is right now, only the movies are solid lore.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 31 janvier 2014 - 03:48 .

[nisallik]

eluvianix wrote...

nisallik wrote...

Actually, the Expanded Universe is considered canon unless official media/content from a higher source (movies, tv shows, etc.) dictates otherwise.

Anyways, Darth Sidious could not be killed by Boba Fett or Starkiller - even if they decided to work together. Lets just say if they managed some way and got very lucky, he has a respawn point. ;p

Well yeah, cause he could transfer his life force into another clone body, which he did...3 times, I think?

Yeah, sounds about right.  He never knew when to stay dead.  Thankfully he never lasted long with Luke Skywalker and his Jedi order up and running. ;p

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

nisallik wrote...

Actually, the Expanded Universe is considered canon unless official media/content from a higher source (movies, tv shows, etc.) dictates otherwise.

Anyways, Darth Sidious could not be killed by Boba Fett or Starkiller - even if they decided to work together. Lets just say if they managed some way and got very lucky, he has a respawn point. ;p

The entirety of the expanded universe is currently in a state of limbo, while Disney's taskforce goes through the lore and pick the parts the like, and discards the part they don't like. So as it is right now, only the movies are solid lore.

Complete and utter horse crap. I actually liked the EU.

[Br3admax]

Rassler wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Rassler wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Well you certainly showed me, that site is most reputable I mean who can argue with fields like Magick and Shamanism.

Google "human virtues". Check the 1st page. None of them has duty as virtue. What else do you want? I merely posted one of the links.

Wat? This doesn't make any sense. Being on the first page doesn't make you right. Most often than not, it means you let Google ad spam more. 

Well it brought links from universities and legal sites. All you have to do is to look them up. There is no single source that has listed Duty as virtue.

I even searched "Duty Virtue". It brought up articles explaining why Duty is not a virtue but an ethic lol.

Ethics and virtues are very closely related. We can't use Google, i.e. wutspolulaar, to decide every thing. That aside, if you actually look up the definition of eithic, virtue is a synonym for it. You've kind of proved yourself wrong already, so I don't know why you're laughing.

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

nisallik wrote...

Actually, the Expanded Universe is considered canon unless official media/content from a higher source (movies, tv shows, etc.) dictates otherwise.

Anyways, Darth Sidious could not be killed by Boba Fett or Starkiller - even if they decided to work together. Lets just say if they managed some way and got very lucky, he has a respawn point. ;p

The entirety of the expanded universe is currently in a state of limbo, while Disney's taskforce goes through the lore and pick the parts the like, and discards the part they don't like. So as it is right now, only the movies are solid lore.

Complete and utter horse crap. I actually liked the EU.

Some of it yes. Hopefully Disney's taskforce will pick out the best parts and keep them as canon for the universe.
I would be lying though if I said that the entire Expanded Universe was high quality pieces of art. Some of the stuff was absolute and utter ****.
Personally I hope they keep Boba Fett's survival of the Sarlacc Pit, and the Thrawn* storyline, the rest is more or less secondary to me.

* EDIT: Thrawn dammit! Thule is from Warhammer 40k <_< I am mixing up my lore... I must be getting old...

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 31 janvier 2014 - 03:58 .

[Lulupab]

hhh89 wrote...

@Rassler: the fact is that if some mages will commit crimes, a spirit of Justice would want the punished. And that could be death. I don't know how well an alliance could work. Beside, they found learn what happens in the Imperium, and some of them could think that non-mages need Justice. That means the could either go to the Imperium and fight it, or turn against Mages. Or they could follow another battle for justice. There are plently possible inThedas.
Anyway, you haven't responded to my question: why would mages want to merge to spirits, when they might know that it's dangerous and they could corrupt the spirits and became abominations?

For the same reason Templars are taking red lyrium to fight mages.

Seriously some mages would do it and some don't even have to merge with them. They can draw power from them like blood mages do from demons. The known spirit healers do the same, they draw powers from spirits but they draw power from spirits of compassion which are weakest of all spirits and don't ignore mortals who seeks them. They are simply upholding their name, you cannot be compassionate and ignore suffering in the same time. But their powers are weak and limited to healing. I am talking about stronger spirits.

Remember Fenris and Anders banter? Fenris mentions that Anders case (merged with a spirit) would be appreciated a lot in the tevinter. Which probably has to do with the fact of having powers of an abomination and being in control as much as possible and with training and focus of mind you could prevent corruption of spirit or losing control and such training can only be found in Tevinter.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

nisallik wrote...

Actually, the Expanded Universe is considered canon unless official media/content from a higher source (movies, tv shows, etc.) dictates otherwise.

Anyways, Darth Sidious could not be killed by Boba Fett or Starkiller - even if they decided to work together. Lets just say if they managed some way and got very lucky, he has a respawn point. ;p

The entirety of the expanded universe is currently in a state of limbo, while Disney's taskforce goes through the lore and pick the parts the like, and discards the part they don't like. So as it is right now, only the movies are solid lore.

Complete and utter horse crap. I actually liked the EU.

Some of it yes. Hopefully Disney's taskforce will pick out the best parts and keep them as canon for the universe.
I would be lying though if I said that the entire Expanded Universe was high quality pieces of art. Some of the stuff was absolute and utter ****.
Personally I hope they keep Boba Fett's survival of the Sarlacc Pit, and the Thule storyline, the rest is more or less secondary to me.

The Three characters, and thus plots, I want them most to keep:
1) Boba Fett
2) Mara Jade
3) Grand Admiral Thrawn.

[nisallik]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

nisallik wrote...

Actually, the Expanded Universe is considered canon unless official media/content from a higher source (movies, tv shows, etc.) dictates otherwise.

Anyways, Darth Sidious could not be killed by Boba Fett or Starkiller - even if they decided to work together. Lets just say if they managed some way and got very lucky, he has a respawn point. ;p

The entirety of the expanded universe is currently in a state of limbo, while Disney's taskforce goes through the lore and pick the parts the like, and discards the parts they don't like.
So as it is right now, only the movies are solid lore.

We will just have to see what changes Disney makes. Hopefully they will keep some major points of established canon between episodes 6 and 7 stable - if not, it looks like I will have a lot of books to throw away... actually a massive amount of books. 


Edit: Yes, they better keep Thrawn intact!

Modifié par nisallik, 31 janvier 2014 - 03:56 .

[CybAnt1]

As a general rule, you will note the emotions embodied by demons are self-serving, whereas the virtues embodied by spirits tend to be a bit more selfless.

Most systems of ethics tend to have things that way, well until Ayn Rand declared selfishness the key virtue, but I digress. Again.

[EmperorSahlertz]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
The Three characters, and thus plots, I want them most to keep:
1) Boba Fett
2) Mara Jade
3) Grand Admiral Thrawn.

DOH! I meant Thrawn.. Not Thule..

But yeah, those three are pretty important to me... Sadly with the new trilogy odds are that Thrawn will get axed. 

[General TSAR]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Sorry. This is what happens when you stick to a sentence, instead of going for your usual tedious verbosity. {smilie}

The point is, I suspect many players might question whether Faith is a "good" virtue or ideal as opposed to the others (I've seen people say so on the forums), but that is largely a modern attitude, as well as a narrowing of what one can have faith in. Plenty of modern people are religious, and have faith - and personally, as long as they are not fundamentalists, I have no problem with them -- but that is, indeed, highly off topic.

Thanks for the elaboration, my apologies if I came off as rude.

[Lulupab]

Br3ad wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Rassler wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Well you certainly showed me, that site is most reputable I mean who can argue with fields like Magick and Shamanism.

Google "human virtues". Check the 1st page. None of them has duty as virtue. What else do you want? I merely posted one of the links.

Wat? This doesn't make any sense. Being on the first page doesn't make you right. Most often than not, it means you let Google ad spam more. 

Well it brought links from universities and legal sites. All you have to do is to look them up. There is no single source that has listed Duty as virtue.

I even searched "Duty Virtue". It brought up articles explaining why Duty is not a virtue but an ethic lol.

Ethics and virtues are very closely related. We can't use Google, i.e. wutspolulaar, to decide every thing. That aside, if you actually look up the definition of eithic, virtue is a synonym for it. You've kind of proved yourself wrong already, so I don't know why you're laughing.

Literature failure.

Ethic: a set of principles based on what is good or bad, especially ones relating to or affirming a specified group, field, or form of conduct.

Virtue: behaviour showing high moral standards.

Ethic CAN BE virtue's synoym but not always AKA we have evil ethics belonging to evil groups but there are no evil virtues. It can be someone's duty to murder to satisfy blood god's demans (not virtue), it can also be someone duty to protect the innocent (virtue). In shoty duty is not as pure as other virtues therefore its an ethic not a virtue.

Modifié par Rassler, 31 janvier 2014 - 04:12 .

[The Elder King]

The Red templars seem to have moved from 'fighting mages' to 'fitti everyone'; we sorn actually know if the RT are still fighting mages. So unless we have more info we can't say that the templars fighting mages are using red lyrium. But I consider assuming red lyrium extremely stupid, so I guess my opinion on them isn't that different from merging.
The idea of using spirits like the Healers do is better and safer.
The fact that the Imperium would appreciate what Anders is isn't a good thing for me. My opinion of the Imperium is extremely low, and has little to do with the fact that it'a a magocracy. Anyway, we have no clue if Tevinter knows about merging and training to control it (if training is even helpful). If methods for training to control a spirit exist, they'd be likely found in Rivain.

[Mornmagor]

By the way, that picture with the armored mage, with the big sword and the book floating, was pretty badass.

[Zatche]

x-aizen-x wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...I

Could also be a numbers thing.

Probably important to remember that there's a degree of dissonance due to the game being a game and us going with the idea that "getting stabbed with a sword once and dying" wasn't what we were looking for from it.

Can you like explain?

Mundanes greatly outnumber mages.

In real life, a single stab can kill you, but that would make for a frustrating and not very fun game. Therefore, 1 stab generally won't kill you in game, nor will 1 fireball. So, your version of a "realistic" and over powered mage didn't jive with the gameplay.

I also suspect it wouldn't jive with the story Bioware is trying to tell. Bioware doesn't want to tell a story where the mages just blow away all the Templars.

[Lulupab]

Zatche wrote...

x-aizen-x wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...I

Could also be a numbers thing.

Probably important to remember that there's a degree of dissonance due to the game being a game and us going with the idea that "getting stabbed with a sword once and dying" wasn't what we were looking for from it.

Can you like explain?

Mundanes greatly outnumber mages.

In real life, a single stab can kill you, but that would make for a frustrating and not very fun game. Therefore, 1 stab generally won't kill you in game, nor will 1 fireball. So, your version of a "realistic" and over powered mage didn't jive with the gameplay.

I also suspect it wouldn't jive with the story Bioware is trying to tell. Bioware doesn't want to tell a story where the mages just blow away all the Templars.

Maybe they do. Its not like all mundanes are getting killed. only a faction who is opposing their freedom.