420 réponses à ce sujet

[Realmzmaster]

Tarek wrote...

also if something is resistant to magic, a mage can always use the environment to destroy it

templar: " I have magic resistance, prepare to die..."

mage:" that's nice but this 2 ton boulder is not... so im gonna telekenticaly throw it on ur face... bye"

squish

Moving a two ton boulder requires concentration and time to move it is not instanteous. A templar or archer with a bow will simply end that concentration and the threat.

Also you are assuming that the templar will remain the same space and not close on the mage and enter the mage's space. The mage cannot drop that boulder unless he/she plans on dropping it on themselves along with the templar.

The mage requires distance to be most effective. The closer the templar is to the mage the more likely there will be a dead mage.

[Realmzmaster]

Rassler wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
]

The point being made is that she is still mowing down blood mages like there is no tomorrow. A mage that cannot get his/her spells off in time are dead mages.  In close combat the advantage goes to the warrior, templar or rogue.

A mage who throws an AOE like fireball on a rapidly closing foe is going to catch himself/herself in the effect. A mage requires distance to be effective which is why they are the artillery of the fantasy world. Mages like artillery need protection otherwise it will be overran.

Mages need time to cast the spells especially spells that have the ability to wipe out large numbers of warriors. Someone has to buy the mage that time.

Also sheer numbers will take down any foe. There are more mundanes than there are mages or templars. The mages will run out of mana at some time. You then have dead mages.

If mages are as powerful as many think they would have conquered Thedas by now, but that is not the case.

Because mages didn't want to rule over Thedas. There are plenty of mages like Bethany or Wynne etc... who just want peace, even many of the apostates.

We don't know what is the limit for mages power? Who is to say mages cannot come together in numbers, lets say 100, and cast a spell that rots all food and water in a huge area? What then? The precius lyrium wont save the templars anymore and they will die cause of thirst/hunger.

Everything is specualtion until stuff are revealed.

If that were the case do you not think that Tevinter would have tried that tactic. The problem with scorched earth tactics are that it effects the very mages (who cast the spell) in that area. Last time I checked those mages need food and water as much as the templars. Also that very tactic would only enrage the mundane populace and further cement that mages are dangerous and must be controlled or eliminated. 

That would cause the populace to rise up and join the templars against the mages.

[TK514]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Tarek wrote...

also if something is resistant to magic, a mage can always use the environment to destroy it

templar: " I have magic resistance, prepare to die..."

mage:" that's nice but this 2 ton boulder is not... so im gonna telekenticaly throw it on ur face... bye"

squish

Moving a two ton boulder requires concentration and time to move it is not instanteous. A templar or archer with a bow will simply end that concentration and the threat.

Also you are assuming that the templar will remain the same space and not close on the mage and enter the mage's space. The mage cannot drop that boulder unless he/she plans on dropping it on themselves along with the templar.

The mage requires distance to be most effective. The closer the templar is to the mage the more likely there will be a dead mage.

Or the Templar could simply nullify the Mage's telekinesis before the boulder even gets off the ground.

[Lulupab]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
]

The point being made is that she is still mowing down blood mages like there is no tomorrow. A mage that cannot get his/her spells off in time are dead mages.  In close combat the advantage goes to the warrior, templar or rogue.

A mage who throws an AOE like fireball on a rapidly closing foe is going to catch himself/herself in the effect. A mage requires distance to be effective which is why they are the artillery of the fantasy world. Mages like artillery need protection otherwise it will be overran.

Mages need time to cast the spells especially spells that have the ability to wipe out large numbers of warriors. Someone has to buy the mage that time.

Also sheer numbers will take down any foe. There are more mundanes than there are mages or templars. The mages will run out of mana at some time. You then have dead mages.

If mages are as powerful as many think they would have conquered Thedas by now, but that is not the case.

Because mages didn't want to rule over Thedas. There are plenty of mages like Bethany or Wynne etc... who just want peace, even many of the apostates.

We don't know what is the limit for mages power? Who is to say mages cannot come together in numbers, lets say 100, and cast a spell that rots all food and water in a huge area? What then? The precius lyrium wont save the templars anymore and they will die cause of thirst/hunger.

Everything is specualtion until stuff are revealed.

If that were the case do you not think that Tevinter would have tried that tactic. The problem with scorched earth tactics are that it effects the very mages (who cast the spell) in that area. Last time I checked those mages need food and water as much as the templars. Also that very tactic would only enrage the mundane populace and further cement that mages are dangerous and must be controlled or eliminated. 

That would cause the populace to rise up and join the templars against the mages.

Now you are just theorycrafting. But fyi The maker dispelled foul magics of Tevinter so maybe the tevinter indeed attempted such a thing FROM a distance, making fereldans starve from Tevinter. That is if anything the chantry says is true.

Anyway that is not my point, Mages have won against Templars as well and in canon. Anders oblitirated full patrol of templars and greywardens, trainded to kill abominations and brood mothers and armed to the teeth with a single spell. It turned their bodies into blood and bone.

So basically anders was like *snap* 100 people, templars and grey wardens instantly dead and they were close to anders. Anders personally ripped Rolan's head off with his own hands aka melee range, AFTER rolan stabbed Anders with his sword and nothing happened. Want more power?

Cassandra was 1 templar who killed that many mages, maybe she was very good. Glad to have her on my side. During the course of the game I've seen Templars quite vulnerable to mages as I've seen mages dying to Templars. Its mostly based on how powerful the individual is.

Modifié par Rassler, 31 janvier 2014 - 08:29 .

[AutumnWitch]

Its funny you mention the Arishok. Now days, after understanding how to make a good mage. When I battle the Arishok (even on hard) he literally doesn't step two feet or get one attack off before he dies, the look on his face is priceless. If you play your spells right he doesn't have a chance. Even on nightmare he seldom gets to move and maybe he will get one hit in me and that's because I have to take the time to drink a lyrium potion. About the only way to stop a powerful mage is in numbers.

That being said, I don't know what the birth rate of Mages are in Thedas (relative to non-mages) but as they can keep most of them in the Mage towers I have to assume its pretty low. So that is why the mages don't rule all of Thedas, there just isn't enough of them.

[Lulupab]

AutumnWitch wrote...

Its funny you mention the Arishok. Now days, after understanding how to make a good mage. When I battle the Arishok (even on hard) he literally doesn't step two feet or get one attack off before he dies, the look on his face is priceless. If you play your spells right he doesn't have a chance. Even on nightmare he seldom gets to move and maybe he will get one hit in me and that's because I have to take the time to drink a lyrium potion. About the only way to stop a powerful mage is in numbers.

That being said, I don't know what the birth rate of Mages are in Thedas (relative to non-mages) but as they can keep most of them in the Mage towers I have to assume its pretty low. So that is why the mages don't rule all of Thedas, there just isn't enough of them.

Exactly, every single guide out there mentions this.

Mage > Rouge > Warrior in matter of defeating The Arishok difficulty. The Arishok battle is a joke for a mage on nightmare, an absolute joke. All I heard was The Arishok screaming in pain, I did not even gave him a chance ot drink a potion lol, he died in crowd conrol 

Modifié par Rassler, 31 janvier 2014 - 08:59 .

[Realmzmaster]

You keep using Anders but fail to mention that Justice powered Anders up to a level that most mages do not obtained. Anders/Justice is the exception not the rule.

I agree with you that it depends on the power of the individual mage, warrior, templar or rogue. That is not what the OP was stating. IMHO on average a warrior will kill a mage in close combat.

The mage will have the advantage at a distance. The rogue on the other hand will have the advantage if neither the nage nor templar see the rogue coming. For example a rogue goes into Stealth like in DAO. The rogue fires an arrow of slaying at the mage. You will have one dead mage. I know because this is what I did in DAO. The only time it will not work is if the mage is at a high level.

[Lulupab]

Realmzmaster wrote...

You keep using Anders but fail to mention that Justice powered Anders up to a level that most mages do not obtained. Anders/Justice is the exception not the rule.

I agree with you that it depends on the power of the individual mage, warrior, templar or rogue. That is not what the OP was stating. IMHO on average a warrior will kill a mage in close combat.

The mage will have the advantage at a distance. The rogue on the other hand will have the advantage if neither the nage nor templar see the rogue coming. For example a rogue goes into Stealth like in DAO. The rogue fires an arrow of slaying at the mage. You will have one dead mage. I know because this is what I did in DAO. The only time it will not work is if the mage is at a high level.

If we are considering in game mechanics then mages can render themselves invulneravle temporarily, put templars to sleep etc... but not all mages are capable of that so there is that. But most templars should be mere grunts as well, it takes more than 10 years to master Templar talents.

The real question is, what will mages use in the war? The tevinter for example use elephants, normal soldiers armed to the teeth tec... Every war has its own strategies, we'll see what this one will need.

[DRTJR]

Rassler wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You keep using Anders but fail to mention that Justice powered Anders up to a level that most mages do not obtained. Anders/Justice is the exception not the rule.

I agree with you that it depends on the power of the individual mage, warrior, templar or rogue. That is not what the OP was stating. IMHO on average a warrior will kill a mage in close combat.

The mage will have the advantage at a distance. The rogue on the other hand will have the advantage if neither the nage nor templar see the rogue coming. For example a rogue goes into Stealth like in DAO. The rogue fires an arrow of slaying at the mage. You will have one dead mage. I know because this is what I did in DAO. The only time it will not work is if the mage is at a high level.

If we are considering in game mechanics then mages can render themselves invulneravle temporarily, put templars to sleep etc... but not all mages are capable of that so there is that. But most templars should be mere grunts as well, it takes more than 10 years to master Templar talents.

The real question is, what will mages use in the war? The tevinter for example use elephants, normal soldiers armed to the teeth tec... Every war has its own strategies, we'll see what this one will need.

Also Templars have a shelf-life, where as Wynne was still supremely effect whilst being old. 

[Hellion Rex]

Rassler wrote...

If we are considering in game mechanics then mages can render themselves invulneravle temporarily, put templars to sleep etc... but not all mages are capable of that so there is that. But most templars should be mere grunts as well, it takes more than 10 years to master Templar talents.

The real question is, what will mages use in the war? The tevinter for example use elephants, normal soldiers armed to the teeth tec... Every war has its own strategies, we'll see what this one will need.

Where does it say that it takes 10 years to develop Templar abilities?

[AutumnWitch]

Realmzmaster wrote...

You keep using Anders but fail to mention that Justice powered Anders up to a level that most mages do not obtained. Anders/Justice is the exception not the rule.

I agree with you that it depends on the power of the individual mage, warrior, templar or rogue. That is not what the OP was stating. IMHO on average a warrior will kill a mage in close combat.

The mage will have the advantage at a distance. The rogue on the other hand will have the advantage if neither the nage nor templar see the rogue coming. For example a rogue goes into Stealth like in DAO. The rogue fires an arrow of slaying at the mage. You will have one dead mage. I know because this is what I did in DAO. The only time it will not work is if the mage is at a high level.

Mages have a lot of good defensive and highly powered robes as well and with the right runes, rings etc to pump up defence. In both DAO and DA2 once I reach level ten-ish most arrows do little to no damage on my Mage (for short periods of time) once I reach level 15ish arrows pretty much are negligible unless there are a lot of archers at one time. (She has a higher defence and armour than Aveline with all of her upgrades until Ave get the Mages Friend Shield with the 3 rune slots and then its still nearly the same).

About the ONLY thing that non-mages can do to hurt my Mage is the assassin back-stab but usually once they do that once I know they are there and ZAP! they are done.

I don't know, I think it comes down to how each person makes their build and what the function is.

[HiroVoid]

What if I made 50 traps in one place and you stepped on it? That managed to kill a high dragon on one turn.

[AutumnWitch]

HiroVoid wrote...

What if I made 50 traps in one place and you stepped on it? That managed to kill a high dragon on one turn.

I really effing hate traps.

[Wothen]

AutumnWitch wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You keep using Anders but fail to mention that Justice powered Anders up to a level that most mages do not obtained. Anders/Justice is the exception not the rule.

I agree with you that it depends on the power of the individual mage, warrior, templar or rogue. That is not what the OP was stating. IMHO on average a warrior will kill a mage in close combat.

The mage will have the advantage at a distance. The rogue on the other hand will have the advantage if neither the nage nor templar see the rogue coming. For example a rogue goes into Stealth like in DAO. The rogue fires an arrow of slaying at the mage. You will have one dead mage. I know because this is what I did in DAO. The only time it will not work is if the mage is at a high level.

Mages have a lot of good defensive and highly powered robes as well and with the right runes, rings etc to pump up defence. In both DAO and DA2 once I reach level ten-ish most arrows do little to no damage on my Mage (for short periods of time) once I reach level 15ish arrows pretty much are negligible unless there are a lot of archers at one time. (She has a higher defence and armour than Aveline with all of her upgrades until Ave get the Mages Friend Shield with the 3 rune slots and then its still nearly the same).

About the ONLY thing that non-mages can do to hurt my Mage is the assassin back-stab but usually once they do that once I know they are there and ZAP! they are done.

I don't know, I think it comes down to how each person makes their build and what the function is.

Mages are ridiculously good on DA:2 its not even funny
They can fight in close ranges just as well as a warrior, do the same damage of the rogue and have steady aoe, I hope they tone it down or bring the other classes into par

However, I thought this discussion in general was about fluff powers not gameplay powers

Modifié par Wothen, 31 janvier 2014 - 09:35 .

[AutumnWitch]

Wothen wrote...

AutumnWitch wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You keep using Anders but fail to mention that Justice powered Anders up to a level that most mages do not obtained. Anders/Justice is the exception not the rule.

I agree with you that it depends on the power of the individual mage, warrior, templar or rogue. That is not what the OP was stating. IMHO on average a warrior will kill a mage in close combat.

The mage will have the advantage at a distance. The rogue on the other hand will have the advantage if neither the nage nor templar see the rogue coming. For example a rogue goes into Stealth like in DAO. The rogue fires an arrow of slaying at the mage. You will have one dead mage. I know because this is what I did in DAO. The only time it will not work is if the mage is at a high level.

Mages have a lot of good defensive and highly powered robes as well and with the right runes, rings etc to pump up defence. In both DAO and DA2 once I reach level ten-ish most arrows do little to no damage on my Mage (for short periods of time) once I reach level 15ish arrows pretty much are negligible unless there are a lot of archers at one time. (She has a higher defence and armour than Aveline with all of her upgrades until Ave get the Mages Friend Shield with the 3 rune slots and then its still nearly the same).

About the ONLY thing that non-mages can do to hurt my Mage is the assassin back-stab but usually once they do that once I know they are there and ZAP! they are done.

I don't know, I think it comes down to how each person makes their build and what the function is.

Mages are ridiculously good on DA:2 its not even funny
They can fight in close ranges just as well as a warrior, do the same damage of the rogue and have steady aoe, I hope they tone it down or bring the other classes into par

However, I thought this discussion in general was about fluff powers not gameplay powers

I am sorry you will have to please excuse me, I am a not a "gamer" and my whole breadth of knowledge on Mages in games is the DA series which I LOVE. I also love using mages and have honed my time playing them into very efficient, dangerous characters. Sorry.

[MisterJB]

Hey, if you want to discuss gameplay powers...

BullWark of the Ages + Blood Thirst + Blessing of the Fade + Peon's Plight.
First, I become immune to damage then I increase attack and movement speed twice; at the cost of no life points, because, again, immune to damage; which means I can get close to you before you cast a spell; and even if you do manage to cast one, Blessing of the Fade increases resistance to hostile spells; and then I either kill you instantly; double critical hit or critical hit you.

Lol, bring it on mages.

[Lulupab]

eluvianix wrote...

Rassler wrote...

If we are considering in game mechanics then mages can render themselves invulneravle temporarily, put templars to sleep etc... but not all mages are capable of that so there is that. But most templars should be mere grunts as well, it takes more than 10 years to master Templar talents.

The real question is, what will mages use in the war? The tevinter for example use elephants, normal soldiers armed to the teeth tec... Every war has its own strategies, we'll see what this one will need.

Where does it say that it takes 10 years to develop Templar abilities?

I don't exactly remember, but I thought a reference was made? Usually it takes a decade for a templar to be promoted to a full knight, which usually happens after they are fully trained. I don't think you simply drink/injest lyrium and become a templar all of a sudden. It takes years and regualr usage to grant magic resistance.

[DRTJR]

Wothen wrote...

AutumnWitch wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You keep using Anders but fail to mention that Justice powered Anders up to a level that most mages do not obtained. Anders/Justice is the exception not the rule.

I agree with you that it depends on the power of the individual mage, warrior, templar or rogue. That is not what the OP was stating. IMHO on average a warrior will kill a mage in close combat.

The mage will have the advantage at a distance. The rogue on the other hand will have the advantage if neither the nage nor templar see the rogue coming. For example a rogue goes into Stealth like in DAO. The rogue fires an arrow of slaying at the mage. You will have one dead mage. I know because this is what I did in DAO. The only time it will not work is if the mage is at a high level.

Mages have a lot of good defensive and highly powered robes as well and with the right runes, rings etc to pump up defence. In both DAO and DA2 once I reach level ten-ish most arrows do little to no damage on my Mage (for short periods of time) once I reach level 15ish arrows pretty much are negligible unless there are a lot of archers at one time. (She has a higher defence and armour than Aveline with all of her upgrades until Ave get the Mages Friend Shield with the 3 rune slots and then its still nearly the same).

About the ONLY thing that non-mages can do to hurt my Mage is the assassin back-stab but usually once they do that once I know they are there and ZAP! they are done.

I don't know, I think it comes down to how each person makes their build and what the function is.

Mages are ridiculously good on DA:2 its not even funny
They can fight in close ranges just as well as a warrior, do the same damage of the rogue and have steady aoe, I hope they tone it down or bring the other classes into par

However, I thought this discussion in general was about fluff powers not gameplay powers

Let's not forget Haste which is awesome, doubling attack speed for any period of time helps clear out any group of mooks with skill and ease. 

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

Hey, if you want to discuss gameplay powers...

BullWark of the Ages + Blood Thirst + Blessing of the Fade + Peon's Plight.
First, I become immune to damage then I increase attack and movement speed twice; at the cost of no life points, because, again, immune to damage; which means I can get close to you before you cast a spell; and even if you do manage to cast one, Blessing of the Fade increases resistance to hostile spells; and then I either kill you instantly; double critical hit or critical hit you.

Lol, bring it on mages.

Haste + Run like hell = Mage wins.

[Lulupab]

MisterJB wrote...

Hey, if you want to discuss gameplay powers...

BullWark of the Ages + Blood Thirst + Blessing of the Fade + Peon's Plight.
First, I become immune to damage then I increase attack and movement speed twice; at the cost of no life points, because, again, immune to damage; which means I can get close to you before you cast a spell; and even if you do manage to cast one, Blessing of the Fade increases resistance to hostile spells; and then I either kill you instantly; double critical hit or critical hit you.

Lol, bring it on mages.

You are immune to DAMAGE not crowd control. You will share the arisock's fate, paralyzed, screaming in pain, cannot even find time to drink potion, your immunity fades and you die.

Lets not forget shatter aka instant death unless you are boss which you are not 

Modifié par Rassler, 31 janvier 2014 - 09:45 .

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Hey, if you want to discuss gameplay powers...

BullWark of the Ages + Blood Thirst + Blessing of the Fade + Peon's Plight.
First, I become immune to damage then I increase attack and movement speed twice; at the cost of no life points, because, again, immune to damage; which means I can get close to you before you cast a spell; and even if you do manage to cast one, Blessing of the Fade increases resistance to hostile spells; and then I either kill you instantly; double critical hit or critical hit you.

Lol, bring it on mages.

Haste + Run like hell = Mage wins.

Cleanse area. It doesn't affect any of my active abilities.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Hey, if you want to discuss gameplay powers...

BullWark of the Ages + Blood Thirst + Blessing of the Fade + Peon's Plight.
First, I become immune to damage then I increase attack and movement speed twice; at the cost of no life points, because, again, immune to damage; which means I can get close to you before you cast a spell; and even if you do manage to cast one, Blessing of the Fade increases resistance to hostile spells; and then I either kill you instantly; double critical hit or critical hit you.

Lol, bring it on mages.

Haste + Run like hell = Mage wins.

Cleanse area. It doesn't affect any of my active abilities.

Wait, Cleanse Area kills my haste? Sh*t...
Ummmmmm, have mercy?

[Lulupab]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Hey, if you want to discuss gameplay powers...

BullWark of the Ages + Blood Thirst + Blessing of the Fade + Peon's Plight.
First, I become immune to damage then I increase attack and movement speed twice; at the cost of no life points, because, again, immune to damage; which means I can get close to you before you cast a spell; and even if you do manage to cast one, Blessing of the Fade increases resistance to hostile spells; and then I either kill you instantly; double critical hit or critical hit you.

Lol, bring it on mages.

Haste + Run like hell = Mage wins.

Cleanse area. It doesn't affect any of my active abilities.

There is also an spell that grants full magical immunity. Its in spirit tree. It also makes you immune to holy smite and cleanse aura.

eluvianix wrote...
Wait, Cleanse Area kills my haste? Sh*t...
Ummmmmm, have mercy? 
[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

Explained above.

Modifié par Rassler, 31 janvier 2014 - 09:47 .

[Grieving Natashina]

KaiserShep wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

I'll just let my favorite dwarf say it for me:

If only more of them were like Varric. Thedas would be a much better place.

Agreed.  

Off-topic: Does anyone have any good rogue groups to recommend?  I'd like to hang out with my fellow sneaky-sneaky types sometimes. 

[MisterJB]

Rassler wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Hey, if you want to discuss gameplay powers...

BullWark of the Ages + Blood Thirst + Blessing of the Fade + Peon's Plight.
First, I become immune to damage then I increase attack and movement speed twice; at the cost of no life points, because, again, immune to damage; which means I can get close to you before you cast a spell; and even if you do manage to cast one, Blessing of the Fade increases resistance to hostile spells; and then I either kill you instantly; double critical hit or critical hit you.

Lol, bring it on mages.

You are immune to DAMAGE not crowd control. You will share the arisock's fate, paralyzed, screaming in pain, cannot even find time to drink potion, your immunity fades and you die.

Lets not forget shatter aka instant death unless you are boss which you are not 

Paralyze and Shatter only work if the victim doesn't pass a physical resistance check which counts Constitution points. Sword and Shield Warriors rely heavily on Constitution which means my PC would have TONS of Constitution.
Your crowd control is not even going to slow me down.

Modifié par MisterJB, 31 janvier 2014 - 09:50 .