128 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

CommanderJessica wrote...

I want to be a city elf.
If the elf inquisitor is Dalish, I won't be playing as an elf, but the qunari/vashoth instead.

I don't think the Dalish are a very likeable people.

Yeah I prefer the city elves myself, and it's my second favorite origin in DA:O. The Dalish are pretty off-putting in general, though the Dalish in DA:O were a bit more welcoming once that quest over. Merrill is pretty much the only one I genuinely like out of the whole lot of them, and I thought it was amusing and surprising how her companion quest could result in wiping out the entire clan. I can't say I even regretted that outcome.

[Huge_Beaver]

Dalish mage.

[byeshoe]

hmm...I do like how city elves start from nothing, and then eventually get to riches (thanks to us the players)

xD but i also like how the dalish are very snippy and hating of humans. A dalish mage...fiery and cold. think i'll pick a city elf...because they're fun x]

Modifié par Girlgoten, 02 février 2014 - 01:00 .

[Navasha]

Definitely Dalish for me. I can't say I like the City elves all that much. They all seem to be people who have just 'given up'. Not really a stance I have much sympathy toward.

[Mistic]

gangly369 wrote...

Misticsan wrote...

I was going to ditch Dalish all together since my main playthrough in DA:O was a Dalish archer, until I learned there would be the option to play a Dalish mage. That sounds too interesting to ignore. That and a possible Qunari mage, imagine the possibilities!

Chantry fanatic: "It's a pagan! Burn them!"
Templar fanatic: "It's a mage! Burn them!"
Mage fanatic: "You're a mage, but you tree-hugging hippies don't understand our plight! Burn them!"
Bigoted human: "It's an elf! Opress them!"
Bigoted City Elf: "You're an Elf, but you're one of those snobbish Dalish! Kick them out!"
Bigoted Dalish Elf: "Peace with the shemlen? You're a traitor to our people! Kill them!"
Qunari: "No."

Yes, I want my characters to feel miserable. That makes victory sweeter xD

You forgot the dwarves

Oops, true.

Bigoted Dwarf: "It's a forest elf! They want to stop us from getting to the Lonely Mountain and recovering our treasure! Kill them!"
Dalish Inquisitor: "Wait, pal, wrong fantasy setting here!"
Bigoted Dwarf: "My bad."

[Matthew Ryder]

KaiserShep wrote...

CommanderJessica wrote...

I want to be a city elf.
If the elf inquisitor is Dalish, I won't be playing as an elf, but the qunari/vashoth instead.

I don't think the Dalish are a very likeable people.

Yeah I prefer the city elves myself, and it's my second favorite origin in DA:O. The Dalish are pretty off-putting in general, though the Dalish in DA:O were a bit more welcoming once that quest over. Merrill is pretty much the only one I genuinely like out of the whole lot of them, and I thought it was amusing and surprising how her companion quest could result in wiping out the entire clan. I can't say I even regretted that outcome.

I love how this is a "they all act like that" statement. True some Dalish are a bit off-putting and mistrustful of the other races but don't they kind of deserve that right? I mean the Dalish Warden's father was beaten and killed by both human and city elves, Zathrian's son was killed and his daughter was raped by humans, Lanaya was the sole survivor of a bandit attack and became their "servant" for a time. Just because the Dalish elves in DAII act mistrustful doesn't mean they ALL act like.

[DRTJR]

ThatDude wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

CommanderJessica wrote...

I want to be a city elf.
If the elf inquisitor is Dalish, I won't be playing as an elf, but the qunari/vashoth instead.

I don't think the Dalish are a very likeable people.

Yeah I prefer the city elves myself, and it's my second favorite origin in DA:O. The Dalish are pretty off-putting in general, though the Dalish in DA:O were a bit more welcoming once that quest over. Merrill is pretty much the only one I genuinely like out of the whole lot of them, and I thought it was amusing and surprising how her companion quest could result in wiping out the entire clan. I can't say I even regretted that outcome.

I love how this is a "they all act like that" statement. True some Dalish are a bit off-putting and mistrustful of the other races but don't they kind of deserve that right? I mean the Dalish Warden's father was beaten and killed by both human and city elves, Zathrian's son was killed and his daughter was raped by humans, Lanaya was the sole survivor of a bandit attack and became their "servant" for a time. Just because the Dalish elves in DAII act mistrustful doesn't mean they ALL act like.

Zathrian cursed a bunch of humans for CENTURIES, They also pushed Merrill into a different clan because her clan had an exess of mages, and Marethari's clan needed a mage.
No the Dalish (the vast majority of them anyway) are dicks.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

And a bunch of humans raped and murdered Zathrian's children. And elves live in human cities as second class citizens. Therefore almost all humans are dicks?

[Matthew Ryder]

Faerunner wrote...

ThatDude wrote...

People complain about how the Dalish treat their city brethren like garbage but not towards the dwarves on how they treat they're castles. I mean yes, their descendants of some of the worst Orzammar had to offer but not every castles would end up like that. Sometimes the uptight nobles of Orzammar are to blame.

The point is that although the Dalish and city elves (alongside noble and castles dwarves) are split into two cliques, they are still one species. I hope this war will help put aside their differences just for the sake of survival.

I agree. The differences are cultural, not racial.

And don't forget most city elves don't trust Dalish either. Most think they're heathens and savages. Never mind the things they look down on the Dalish for are their ancestral pantheon and cultural identity. The fact that they've lost sight of it is quite sad.

But anywa,y I think these petty squabbles over cultural differences are hurting more than helping the elves. The Dalish have the freedom and knowledge to help move the elven people forward, while the city elves have the sheer numbers and raw will to  do whatever is necessary to survive. Put together, the Dalish and city elves could cover a lot of ground. Divided, they remain stifled and dead-end. The Dalish continue to run from their problems instead of face them as small, scattered, and exclusive tribes, and the city elves remain content with their horrible lot because they don't know of anything to compare it to (historically or presently, since all they know is they were slaves and aren't anymore) and remain vulnerable to being enveloped by more dominant cultures and races (Andrastian humans and Qunari grey giants).

You make a very good point. I, whose main Warden is a Dalish Elf, can understand why the Dalish act like they do. It seems like people dislike them probably never played the Dalish Elf origin. I like to think the Dalish Warden grew up from his isolationism due to his travels with the Grey Wardens. Too bad his clan in DAII don't seem to really acknowledge his bravery except for Merrill (seriously what was up with that ?).

[Jedi Master of Orion]

To be honest, I expect the elf Inquisitor to potentially be able to be either city elf or Dalish elf dependent on class. The only difference in reactions either would get would likely be fairly minimal. Humans would treat both elves badly. Maybe Dalish Elves slightly worse. Dalish Elves and City Elves would both treat Elf Inquisitors better than humans, and probably treat their own slightly better than the other type of elf.

ThatDude wrote...
Too bad his clan in DAII don't seem to really acknowledge his bravery except for Merrill (seriously what was up with that ?).

Well we only spent a significant time around Merrill. With the rest of them, it didn't really come up in Hawke's short talks with them.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 02 février 2014 - 08:15 .

[Mistic]

ThatDude wrote...

I like to think the Dalish Warden grew up from his isolationism due to his travels with the Grey Wardens. Too bad his clan in DAII don't seem to really acknowledge his bravery except for Merrill (seriously what was up with that ?).

Wait, what? My main warden is Dalish and the clan seemed to miss her very much. Or maybe you meant another kind of acknowledgement?

A thing about the Dalish I'm looking forward to is religion. In DA:O you could choose your answers and there were some options for a pagan warden (and no, they weren't all just "Grrrr, Hate Chantry, Kill Priests, Maker Bad, grrrr!"), and I wonder if the same will happen in Inquisition. It would be pretty jarring to have a non-Chantry Inquisitor spouting things such as "Maker's breath!" or similar.

[Matthew Ryder]

DRTJR wrote...

ThatDude wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

CommanderJessica wrote...

I want to be a city elf.
If the elf inquisitor is Dalish, I won't be playing as an elf, but the qunari/vashoth instead.

I don't think the Dalish are a very likeable people.

Yeah I prefer the city elves myself, and it's my second favorite origin in DA:O. The Dalish are pretty off-putting in general, though the Dalish in DA:O were a bit more welcoming once that quest over. Merrill is pretty much the only one I genuinely like out of the whole lot of them, and I thought it was amusing and surprising how her companion quest could result in wiping out the entire clan. I can't say I even regretted that outcome.

I love how this is a "they all act like that" statement. True some Dalish are a bit off-putting and mistrustful of the other races but don't they kind of deserve that right? I mean the Dalish Warden's father was beaten and killed by both human and city elves, Zathrian's son was killed and his daughter was raped by humans, Lanaya was the sole survivor of a bandit attack and became their "servant" for a time. Just because the Dalish elves in DAII act mistrustful doesn't mean they ALL act like.

Zathrian cursed a bunch of humans for CENTURIES, They also pushed Merrill into a different clan because her clan had an exess of mages, and Marethari's clan needed a mage.
No the Dalish (the vast majority of them anyway) are dicks.

Zathrian cursed the people who were responsible for his children's demise not the ENTIRE human race. He even would welcome the aid of a human, dwarf, and city elf warden to wipe out the werewolves. You can even fight Zathrian and persuade him that the people have learned their lesson and had enough. I main Warden is Dalish and I told him to stop seeing as though it was hurting everyone, humans and elves. Plus come on man, seriously man? What happened to Zathrian's children: I main not condone the long lasting curse but they did sort of had that coming. What parent has not wished the worst on their children's assailant? Plus, yea it's true that Merrill's clan gave her to Marethai's clan but it's not like she complained about it. She's proven that she loves her clan and is willing to go beyond to save not just her clan but the entire Dalish community.

Plus the Dwarves can be dicks as well, especially towards their castles. Nobody here complains that s***

[Matthew Ryder]

Misticsan wrote...

ThatDude wrote...

I like to think the Dalish Warden grew up from his isolationism due to his travels with the Grey Wardens. Too bad his clan in DAII don't seem to really acknowledge his bravery except for Merrill (seriously what was up with that ?).

Wait, what? My main warden is Dalish and the clan seemed to miss her very much. Or maybe you meant another kind of acknowledgement?

A thing about the Dalish I'm looking forward to is religion. In DA:O you could choose your answers and there were some options for a pagan warden (and no, they weren't all just "Grrrr, Hate Chantry, Kill Priests, Maker Bad, grrrr!"), and I wonder if the same will happen in Inquisition. It would be pretty jarring to have a non-Chantry Inquisitor spouting things such as "Maker's breath!" or similar.

Oh my mistake. What I meant was that while my Dalish Waden does miss his clan greatly he learns that being with Grey Wardens that all races can be trusted and honorable. I say that because while my Waden did all these great things for the Dalish elves and all of Ferelden the Sabare Clan just seemed to want to ignore that and focus on the negatives that the mirror caused. I mean yes the mirror did take me away from home and kill Tamlen but it did help save the country. So some good came out of it.

[Matthew Ryder]

ThatDude wrote...

Misticsan wrote...

ThatDude wrote...

I like to think the Dalish Warden grew up from his isolationism due to his travels with the Grey Wardens. Too bad his clan in DAII don't seem to really acknowledge his bravery except for Merrill (seriously what was up with that ?).

Wait, what? My main warden is Dalish and the clan seemed to miss her very much. Or maybe you meant another kind of acknowledgement?

A thing about the Dalish I'm looking forward to is religion. In DA:O you could choose your answers and there were some options for a pagan warden (and no, they weren't all just "Grrrr, Hate Chantry, Kill Priests, Maker Bad, grrrr!"), and I wonder if the same will happen in Inquisition. It would be pretty jarring to have a non-Chantry Inquisitor spouting things such as "Maker's breath!" or similar.

Oh my mistake. What I meant was that while my Dalish Waden does miss his clan greatly he learns that being with Grey Wardens that all races can be trusted and honorable. I say that because while my Waden did all these great things for the Dalish elves and all of Ferelden the Sabare Clan just seemed to want to ignore that and focus on the negatives that the mirror caused. I mean yes the mirror did take me away from home and kill Tamlen but it did help me become a Grey Warden and a hero. So some good came out of it, though it was bitter.

[Jessihatt]

I know not every Dalish is a pain, and I have played the Dalish Origin. I killed the humans I came across in that origin just because it seemed to be the most realistic option for my Dalish Warden to take.
I still don't find them incredibly likeable, regardless of whether their hatred is understandable.
They don't seem merciful or forgiving.

Neither do City Elves either, my city elf killed Vaughn and threatened Duncan.
However I feel they are more justified in being mistrustful.

Dalish are pretty much left alone as I see it, yet they seem to go out of their way to antagonise anyone who isn't Dalish.

[LobselVith8]

Misticsan wrote...

Wait, what? My main warden is Dalish and the clan seemed to miss her very much. Or maybe you meant another kind of acknowledgement?

A thing about the Dalish I'm looking forward to is religion. In DA:O you could choose your answers and there were some options for a pagan warden (and no, they weren't all just "Grrrr, Hate Chantry, Kill Priests, Maker Bad, grrrr!"), and I wonder if the same will happen in Inquisition. It would be pretty jarring to have a non-Chantry Inquisitor spouting things such as "Maker's breath!" or similar. 

I'm hoping the cultural and religious differences come across with the Dalish protagonist - spirits (rather than Spirits and Demons), the Beyond, the elven pantheon of the Creators and the Forgotten Ones, the Dread Wolf Fen'Harel, the markings of Vallaslin - Blood Writing - depicting a particular elven god, the Creators being trapped in the Eternal City.

[Mistic]

ThatDude wrote...

Oh my mistake. What I meant was that while my Dalish Waden does miss his clan greatly he learns that being with Grey Wardens that all races can be trusted and honorable. I say that because while my Waden did all these great things for the Dalish elves and all of Ferelden the Sabare Clan just seemed to want to ignore that and focus on the negatives that the mirror caused. I mean yes the mirror did take me away from home and kill Tamlen but it did help save the country. So some good came out of it.

Ah, I understand now.

Well, my female Dalish archer was a reluctant hero that was always complaining about being a Grey Warden,  (yep, amazingly similar to Bioware's canon). The Keeper had to exile her, so maybe they were feeling a bit guilty about it and became overprotective? xD

But I get your point. It's the dichotomy between the Vir Thanadal (the way of three trees) and the Vir Atish'an (the way of peace). The first is the favourite of the hunters, and the most popular among the Dalish. A good philosophy to endure in dire times, but bad to make friends. The second one is more difficult and so less popular that we've only seen it mentioned in a pair of gloves.

[BraveVesperia]

Both would be a great option. But since I didn't have the opportunity to be a Dalish mage in Origins, I'd enjoy it this time around.

[LobselVith8]

CommanderJessica wrote...

Dalish are pretty much left alone as I see it, yet they seem to go out of their way to antagonise anyone who isn't Dalish.

Merrill explains the Dalish are nomadic precisely because they aren't left alone - templars pursue them (and Ariane even protected her clan from a templar), and the Sabrae clan dealt with Andrastians threatening them to convert as a result of staying in one place for too long. It's why the clans keep separate from each other and only meet once every ten years for Arlathvhen.

[Mistic]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm hoping the cultural and religious differences come across with the Dalish protagonist - spirits (rather than Spirits and Demons), the Beyond, the elven pantheon of the Creators and the Forgotten Ones, the Dread Wolf Fen'Harel, the markings of Vallaslin - Blood Writing - depicting a particular elven god, the Creators being trapped in the Eternal City.

That would be really nice, but seriously, I'd be satisfied as long as there's no "Maker's Breath!" in the mouth of a Dalish Inquisitor, or there are some options to say "thanks but no, sorry, I'm not andrastian". Not only for elves, but for dwarves and qunari too.

Of course, the opposite is true: if the City Elf is andrastian, shouldn't they have the option to say so?

[Jessihatt]

LobselVith8 wrote...

CommanderJessica wrote...

Dalish are pretty much left alone as I see it, yet they seem to go out of their way to antagonise anyone who isn't Dalish.

Merrill explains the Dalish are nomadic precisely because they aren't left alone - templars pursue them (and Ariane even protected her clan from a templar), and the Sabrae clan dealt with Andrastians threatening them to convert as a result of staying in one place for too long. It's why the clans keep separate from each other and only meet once every ten years for Arlathvhen.

Fair enough, but that's Templars pursuing the mages in a clan, their keepers etc. Almost all mages who are forcefully taken from their lives or hunted as apostates despise Templars.
Normal, average people and elves are still venomously called Shems and flat-ears without provocation (yeah some humans call them knife-ears).

It's interesting hearing other people's opinions, but I don't think I will ever prefer the Dalish over City Elves 

[LobselVith8]

CommanderJessica wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill explains the Dalish are nomadic precisely because they aren't left alone - templars pursue them (and Ariane even protected her clan from a templar), and the Sabrae clan dealt with Andrastians threatening them to convert as a result of staying in one place for too long. It's why the clans keep separate from each other and only meet once every ten years for Arlathvhen.

Fair enough, but that's Templars pursuing the mages in a clan, their keepers etc. Almost all mages who are forcefully taken from their lives or hunted as apostates despise Templars.
Normal, average people and elves are still venomously called Shems and flat-ears without provocation (yeah some humans call them knife-ears).

It's interesting hearing other people's opinions, but I don't think I will ever prefer the Dalish over City Elves 

Fair enough; you like who you like.

I will simply add that 'shemlen' is basically the elven word for human (the quicklings, or quick children, as the Arlathan elves saw the immigrating humans), so it's used by some Dalish in reference to humans because they still use the elven language (including in their written and spoken history, such as their reference to Andraste being a shemlen prophet who fought alongside Shartan), while shem is a slang reference that is derived from the original elven term that's intended as an insult.

[Mistic]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I will simply add that 'shemlen' is basically the elven word for human (the quicklings, or quick children, as the Arlathan elves saw the immigrating humans), so it's used by some Dalish in reference to humans because they still use the elven language (including in their written and spoken history, such as their reference to Andraste being a shemlen prophet who fought alongside Shartan), while shem is a slang reference that is derived from the original elven term that's intended as an insult.

Wow, I've never seen it from that point of view. So they City Elves are actually the ones using that word as an insult? The more you know... Not that I blame them; the City Elves are the ones who have to endure racism every day.

[Kjolvor]

I preferred playing the City Elf origin in DAO, but I might try creating a Dalish elf if we get the option to.

[Jessihatt]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I will simply add that 'shemlen' is basically the elven word for human ... while shem is a slang reference that is derived from the original elven term that's intended as an insult.

I know, that's what I was referring to.
That a human they have never met before, and is possibly sympathetic to their plight, is greeted with an insult.

Anywho, I shall be happy for those who love Dalish elves if that is the background for an Elven Inquisitor!
I shall be even happier if there are both Dalish and City Elf options.