66 réponses à ce sujet

[BridgeBurner]

Evil Mastered wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Classes with no accuracy bonus and no biotic charge are far from outstanding with the Raider. 

Havoc soldier would like a word with you.

Same thing as biotic charge, its a gap closer just the same.

[Loufi]

No. There's not any destroyer who can beat a PPR destroyer.

[Kislitsin]

loufi1528 wrote...

No. There's not any destroyer who can beat a PPR destroyer.

As much as I love the lazor, I find a lot of weapons much more interesting on him.

Don't get me wrong, he is probably the best Lazor user around, no chit, but I don't like to waste those RoF and Accuracy bonuses. And for me damn thing belongs to the TSent, it's just... a personal thingy.

On Destroyer, normal geths and Marksmen, among sustained fire guns I will choose Broophoon over PPR all the day every day, because with accuracy bonuses phoon all the sudden becomes PPR 2.0
And there is no better boss killer in the game (aside from incendiary reeger).

His bonuses, tankinnes and stager-resistance combined with rape-nades make him for a great shotgunner.

But if we talk about pure effectivenes, PPR is not an answer still. I think, DM - accuracy-mag-damage with Talon (mag+barrel) is the answer. Just my opinion though.

@Derbeer, I said, my TSol become a scrub, I can't use anything but Talon on him nao . Also he is accuracy-mm built, not RoF.

[Kislitsin]

Annomander wrote...


Classes with no accuracy bonus and no biotic charge are far from outstanding with the Raider. Hitting more shots leads to higher damage, and with spread as bad as the raiders, even a 75% accuracy boost from HM/ DM + SC will leave pellets missing. The AIU and SI would rank amongst "average" raider users, with the destroyer being "good".

Due to the pellet spread of the raider, accuracy bonuses are a must or a great number of your pellets each shot will sail harmlessly past the enemy unless you're within a few meters.

BTW, how does the ADS changes the shotgun accuracy? I recall the number 0,75 from somewhere, some variable mentioned in one of the threads about shooty patterns.

i.e. does RoF specced MM with SC (95%) need to ADS to achieve that 95%?
And if so, the "negative accuracy" with Acc-MM (110%) is not an issue if one never ADS, or is it?

[Deerber]

Kislitsin wrote...

@Derbeer, I said, my TSol become a scrub, I can't use anything but Talon on him nao . Also he is accuracy-mm built, not RoF.

Mine's too, and I haven't bothered to respec yet. Still, it turns everything in front of him into a bloody pulp mess 

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

No fitness > no HML

[tjbearpig]

Why not go for mag size if you're going to use the raider? It's ROF is already stupid fast. You get 3 shots (and possibly more off host) if you spec into it.

[Kislitsin]

tjbearpig wrote...

Why not go for mag size if you're going to use the raider? It's ROF is already stupid fast. You get 3 shots (and possibly more off host) if you spec into it.

No, 35% mag increase do not allow you to have 3-shot raider.

Weapons start to get an additional shots with =>3 shots in clip (BW, evi etc.) or. The only exception is an executioner, mag mode + mag-DM together allow to get a spare shot in clip.

25% RoF increase though interfere not only with intervals between shots, but with intervals between recharges. And while it doesn't increase recharge speed you can start recharging the gun earlier thus RC earlier, thus increasing sustained DPS.

Also, better RoF - more chances to get 3 shot raider off-host (though I prefer to get 2 shots, otherwise it interferes with my RC rythm).

Modifié par Kislitsin, 02 février 2014 - 04:45 .

[tjbearpig]

Oh right, was watching xcal's raider vid and forgot about the mag size nerf lol

[Kislitsin]

FatherOfPearl wrote...

No fitness > no HML

On mobile kit? yes, no fitness is a way to go.

On DM-Destroyer and OG-Turians I prefer to be as inherently tanky as possible without sacrificing damage output. It's a somewhat tough choice with TSent, not so much with TSol who is already min-maxed at 16 somewhat level with 60066. 

With destroyer I would always choose 750 more shields (assuming you spec 4a on HML) over the cobra missiles that deal ~800 damage or tree hydras that deal ~400 each /3 seconds  (If you go full PD in passives and equip the power amp IV) and provoke the crabs to bubble.

For situational CC he has an MFG, for anything else - Raider.

And even when I feel like equipping PPR on him, I still go no-HML with 4b in DM (so I can brophoon as well).

And believe me, I've tried numerous variations of HML, I hadn't find anything worthy at least several points, to me of course.

[Loufi]

Kislitsin wrote...

loufi1528 wrote...

No. There's not any destroyer who can beat a PPR destroyer.

As much as I love the lazor, I find a lot of weapons much more interesting on him.

Don't get me wrong, he is probably the best Lazor user around, no chit, but I don't like to waste those RoF and Accuracy bonuses. And for me damn thing belongs to the TSent, it's just... a personal thingy.

On Destroyer, normal geths and Marksmen, among sustained fire guns I will choose Broophoon over PPR all the day every day, because with accuracy bonuses phoon all the sudden becomes PPR 2.0
And there is no better boss killer in the game (aside from incendiary reeger).

His bonuses, tankinnes and stager-resistance combined with rape-nades make him for a great shotgunner.

But if we talk about pure effectivenes, PPR is not an answer still. I think, DM - accuracy-mag-damage with Talon (mag+barrel) is the answer. Just my opinion though.

@Derbeer, I said, my TSol become a scrub, I can't use anything but Talon on him nao . Also he is accuracy-mm built, not RoF.

hum... I'm skeptical, given the better accuracy of the PPR (easier headshots) and its unlimited ammo (no travel to ammo boxes), which have to be taken into account for calculating sustained dps. Did you test it ? 

[Kislitsin]

loufi1528 wrote...

hum... I'm skeptical, given the better accuracy of the PPR (easier headshots) and its unlimited ammo (no travel to ammo boxes), which have to be taken into account for calculating sustained dps. Did you test it ? 

Seriously, one will notice any ammo issues with Talon only if he just switched from PPR or any other infinite ammo weapon. If you don't plan to camp one spot you can easily bump a pair of boxes... well unless you got condor with 3 harriers.
Sorry, I can't take an argument "Infinite weapons are OP cuz no ammo-travels" seriously, nor can I take "the Harrier is balanced because no ammo".

Now about headshots - I hadn't had a problems with HS with Talon on accuracy-weapon specialists, and, surprise, Destroyer IS an accuracy boosting weapon platform.

About Testing? The best test I've done - two gold solos vs carebears One was TSent with PPR, the other was TSol with Talon, first took 26 minutes, the second was 24 and much less hectic . Ability to 1-2HSK damn goon/phantom RIGHT NAU without heat-up is priceless.

I think Single-boss TTK with PPR-Destroyer will be better than with Talon, but TTK for spawn with Talon should be superior.

But don't get me wrong, I love the lazor and brophoon much more than Talon. It's just... damn thing is too overbuffed for a "caster light weapon".

[Loufi]

Kislitsin wrote...

loufi1528 wrote...

hum... I'm skeptical, given the better accuracy of the PPR (easier headshots) and its unlimited ammo (no travel to ammo boxes), which have to be taken into account for calculating sustained dps. Did you test it ? 

Seriously, one will notice any ammo issues with Talon only if he just switched from PPR or any other infinite ammo weapon. If you don't plan to camp one spot you can easily bump a pair of boxes... well unless you got condor with 3 harriers.
Sorry, I can't take an argument "Infinite weapons are OP cuz no ammo-travels" seriously, nor can I take "the Harrier is balanced because no ammo".

Now about headshots - I hadn't had a problems with HS with Talon on accuracy-weapon specialists, and, surprise, Destroyer IS an accuracy boosting weapon platform.

About Testing? The best test I've done - two gold solos vs carebears One was TSent with PPR, the other was TSol with Talon, first took 26 minutes, the second was 24 and much less hectic . Ability to 1-2HSK damn goon/phantom RIGHT NAU without heat-up is priceless.

I think Single-boss TTK with PPR-Destroyer will be better than with Talon, but TTK for spawn with Talon should be superior.

But don't get me wrong, I love the lazor and brophoon much more than Talon. It's just... damn thing is too overbuffed for a "caster light weapon".

I agree with that.

About testing, I was more thinking about platinum. I will have to try a talon destroyer to compare with my PPR destroyer.

[Deerber]

Typhoon destroyer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PPR destroyer, by the way.

[Kislitsin]

Deerber wrote...

Typhoon destroyer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PPR destroyer, by the way.

Yay, he is able to load the new clip in his PPR 2.0 and continue the massacare.
That's why I see no reasons to take a Lazor over broophoon on accuracy-guys. Even not taking into account 2 sec vs 0,5 sec ramp-up.

[Deerber]

Kislitsin wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Typhoon destroyer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PPR destroyer, by the way.

Yay, he is able to load the new clip in his PPR 2.0 and continue the massacare.
That's why I see no reasons to take a Lazor over broophoon on accuracy-guys. Even not taking into account 2 sec vs 0,5 sec ramp-up.

Which is huge. Besides, dakka dakka >>>>>>>>>> imma firing ma' lazor. Just saying'... 

[Kislitsin]

Deerber wrote...

Which is huge. Besides, dakka dakka >>>>>>>>>> imma firing ma' lazor. Just saying'... 

The Lancer is better than either.............  lol becauze infinite ammo and no ramp-up 
It has been told to me by a BoTB wielder. He has done all the weapon challenges so he should know... 

And no, nohing is better than ma' lazor!

[Deerber]

Kislitsin wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Which is huge. Besides, dakka dakka >>>>>>>>>> imma firing ma' lazor. Just saying'... 

The Lancer is better than either.............  lol becauze infinite ammo and no ramp-up 
It has been told to me by a BoTB wielder. He has done all the weapon challenges so he should know... 

And no, nohing is better than ma' lazor!

ROTFL 

[Kislitsin]

Well, I've tried him with claymoar thoroughly aand I am changing my opinion. He is teh best claymoar user and claymoar Destroyer is the best Destroyer (to me!).

Claymoar feels so sharp with dat 25% RoF and Acc. Staggerproffness helps to RC with bombers and hunters. I'm dying, but I'm taking you with me fcking bomber!

Today I've had my first successful attempt to headshot possessed a-bomb humping my teammate with dat setup (and I've done more than 100 of those attempts during my ME3MP carrier).

[megabeast37215]

Lazor w/ no fitness is the best Destroyer... So stagger, much lazor, all screen shake, many dead.

[lightswitch]

Annomander wrote...

Chealec wrote...

Just to be picky, it's not really the *perfect* wielder for the Raider - I can think of a couple of kits that put it to better use without even trying - AIU (obviously) and SI.

Classes with no accuracy bonus and no biotic charge are far from outstanding with the Raider. Hitting more shots leads to higher damage, and with spread as bad as the raiders, even a 75% accuracy boost from HM/ DM + SC will leave pellets missing. The AIU and SI would rank amongst "average" raider users, with the destroyer being "good".

Due to the pellet spread of the raider, accuracy bonuses are a must or a great number of your pellets each shot will sail harmlessly past the enemy unless you're within a few meters.

fwiw the AIU can close gaps incredibly quickly

[MajorStupidity]

I do a build with no fitness

Typhoon is just a badass gun, and it fits perfectly with the Destroyer. And for the secondary a two-shot executioner because why the hell not. You can also swap the executioner for a scorpion or venom for stagger city with HML and MFG.

[R0gueSp3ctre18]

I have seen a few pugs work wonders with the striker and arc pistol combination...

Modifié par blackproject18, 03 février 2014 - 09:50 .

[Moby]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Lazor w/ no fitness is the best Destroyer... So stagger, much lazor, all screen shake, many dead.

This plus that bloody image...

My co-workers think I've gone off the deep end.

[megabeast37215]

MofuggerX wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Lazor w/ no fitness is the best Destroyer... So stagger, much lazor, all screen shake, many dead.

This plus that bloody image...

My co-workers think I've gone off the deep end.

You have.. long ago