45 réponses à ce sujet

[Zakuspec089]

Alot of people I been seeing around the web want to have this feature in the Next Mass Effect. I think they should listen, it would add ton of replayability. Skyrim and few other RPG's did it very well. Destiny going to have a type of feature as well.

[DeinonSlayer]

DA:O managed it well, the trade-off being a silent protagonist. Do you want it enough to be willing to wait six years for development? That's how long DA:O took, and graphics demand has gone up considerably since then.

They'd be able to do so much more if it weren't for the limitations of consoles...

[Zakuspec089]

Playing other species would make it feel more Mass Effect, playing only Human would make it feel like Shepard 2.o, I don't want that. I know I loved Shepard story but I want to play other species, it doesn't matter to me if the character talks or not, they can do it though.

[Sanunes]

The phrase "It doesn't always work for everyone" might apply here. If they were to do multiple races it would be a nightmare for the animations and the people that design weapons/armor because they would have to account for many different body type that go with the different races. I haven't played Skyrim, but if Bethesda is true to previous games and even Dragon Age: Origins is like this, all the models look like a basic human with a different head.

An example could be with Mass Effect 3, they have 18 different armors for Shepard (DLC items included), so they might have to create 18 different armors for each race. If more races looked similar I would have more confidence it would be a possibility.

[Zakuspec089]

 It worked well in Multiplayer, it can work in Singleplayer. People should give it a chance. Skyrim did it well. I think it would make the game more interesting and fun choosing your own class and species it be like Skyrim in Space, I hope they return more freedom and few other things.

Modifié par Zakuspec089, 02 février 2014 - 03:04 .

[Sanunes]

Multiplayer is different then singleplayer, first there aren't cinematic moments that could have a collision between the player model and the object they are interacting with, that is probably where most of the extra work would be for they would have to animate for each race/gender combination to make sure that when they are pressing a button the model's hand doesn't go through the wall. Look at all the complaints there has been with how FemShep sits and walks, now multiply that for all the additional races.

[DeinonSlayer]

Plus you have to consider how differently interaction would go depending on species, in addition to gender. A Batarian or Quarian wouldn't get the same reaction from a xenophobic Turian that a fellow Turian would. That means recording additional lines.

IIRC, only around 2.7% of players chose the Dwarf Commoner origin in DA:O. That's a big investment of resources for content few players see.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 02 février 2014 - 03:28 .

[Zakuspec089]

I don't know where you are getting your informations from. I played many games, I played both gendered in Mass Effect. I had not seen issues while playing Female Shepard. It wouldn't be an issue to play other species. Don't tell me they don;t have the time and money of course they have the time and money to add and improve many things as well Species Costumization. I really don;t want to play another Human. We had Shepard, a Human for the last three games.

If we played another human it be a Shepard 2.0. It seems like people always like to talk about the negative things than good things. I understand you might not want to play other species but I do and will love to play other species. In Mass Effect 1 they had plenty of armors for each characters if you don;t remember but not customizable, now they can have ton of arms and clothing customization. Mass Effect will be competing against other RPG's and Open World games.

Modifié par Zakuspec089, 02 février 2014 - 03:28 .

[Zakuspec089]

and does it really matter if we get chunky animation? When you say chunky do you mean in cut scenes? I think it be alot better and different to play other species, it would add ton of replaybility. Everything doesn;t have to be perfect as long the game is great and enjoyable. Many people I seen been asking for the feature to play other species.

Modifié par Zakuspec089, 02 février 2014 - 03:31 .

[DeinonSlayer]

That's all well and good, but there's more to implementing something like this than sentiment alone. What I'm trying to get across to you is that incorporating the ability to choose your species increases complexity in terms of storyboarding and resources needed exponentially. Are you willing to wait an extra four years to see this feature integrated?

Re: chunky animation, I'd rather it not look like shit. Better not to cut corners just to crank it out faster - that's where we get things like GettyImages Tali and the famously glitchy Aria speech in Omega DLC.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 02 février 2014 - 03:35 .

[Zakuspec089]

I can awlays wait, I did rather they take their time and make it the best experience than rushing in and faily, I think they been working on the game since 2011/2012. They always work on teh next one before they release the current one well i did think so.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

DA:O managed it well, the trade-off being a silent protagonist. Do you want it enough to be willing to wait six years for development? That's how long DA:O took, and graphics demand has gone up considerably since then.

They'd be able to do so much more if it weren't for the limitations of consoles...

The game took that long because they had to create the lore and ruleset and all of that stuff; not because of customization and dialog.  A Mass Effect game with multiple protagonists wouldn't take six years to develop since the lore is already done. 

Not to mention, I'm sure developing the original Mass Effect took just as long as DA:O to make due to creating the lore as well.

[Sanunes]

The problem is there are a lot of different players with different tastes.  So they are going to look at metrics and past trends and use that information to help them generate features and functionality that work best within their timeline and goals.

You might not see a problem with FemShep, but when I tried to play her in Mass Effect 3 it looked like she moved and sat like a guy, which was very odd for me and I would want any additional player races to move with a fluid motion and not make me wonder why they are moving odd. Just like there are probably players that don't play a game more then once even if they finish it so replayability for them means nothing.

[Nitrocuban]

I bet most players just use default male Shepard, it's probably not worth all the work to do like 5 races.

[wolfsite]

Skyrim isn't a good game to compare as the story is left pretty generic for the player character. The Mass Effect games are more heavily structured which would make adding content for multiple races problematic.

Example:  Almost all Elder Scrolls games start you the same way, a prisoner who is either just released or escaped from confinement and plays the same regardless of species and even guilds are more or less the same regardless of what province you are in with no real cultural distinction.

Mass Effect is more diverse.  With the ME trilogy you are playing a military officer and each race has a very unique military standard which would need to be accounted for each species that was selectable.  Turians are very rigid in terms of the hierarchy and military is the foundation of there culture. Asari have more religious undertones and can also be quite decieving towards other races using there "unique" advantages.  Salarians are more Spec Ops focused which is a radical change to other races which again would lead to different play mechanics.

The differences in customs and traits in the ME species would require a lot of work for animations, character model scales and for the animations to work for each unique animation.  This work can be done but when doing in game cut-scenes with customizable characters is where it gets tricky.  Best example in Mass Effect is if you play Female Shepard in ME2, the drink with Dr. Chakwas has the animations placing the glass in open air and female Shepard isn't sitting in the chair properly, plus some of the sitting Animations are poorly chosed to fit a female character.

[Sanunes]

 

Fishstick wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Skyrim isn't a good game to compare as the story is left pretty generic for the player character. The Mass Effect games are more heavily structured which would make adding content for multiple races problematic.

DAO did this why can't ME? I mean if you've done it once there isn't any excuse as to why you can't do it again, beyond narrative design.

Example:  Almost all Elder Scrolls games start you the same way, a prisoner who is either just released or escaped from confinement and plays the same regardless of species and even guilds are more or less the same regardless of what province you are in with no real cultural distinction.

In ME3 you start out as a prisoner for all intents and purposes. As for the cultural distinction Shepard doesn't have that either, in fact Shepard is one of the most, if not the most bland characters in the ME universe(wow I never thought I'd find myself defend Jacob). 

Mass Effect is more diverse.  With the ME trilogy you are playing a military officer and each race has a very unique military standard which would need to be accounted for each species that was selectable.  Turians are very rigid in terms of the hierarchy and military is the foundation of there culture. Asari have more religious undertones and can also be quite decieving towards other races using there "unique" advantages.  Salarians are more Spec Ops focused which is a radical change to other races which again would lead to different play mechanics.

They're doing that with DAI right now, so if they are willing to put in the time and effort into that, then the next Mass Effect game should have it too. Once again, no excuse.

The differences in customs and traits in the ME species would require a lot of work for animations, character model scales and for the animations to work for each unique animation.  This work can be done but when doing in game cut-scenes with customizable characters is where it gets tricky.  Best example in Mass Effect is if you play Female Shepard in ME2, the drink with Dr. Chakwas has the animations placing the glass in open air and female Shepard isn't sitting in the chair properly, plus some of the sitting Animations are poorly chosed to fit a female character.

Not really, I mean when you follow the developer diaries from the project they admit that most of the character models are basically molded around a modified human skeleton and once you get the basic template for Male and Female for whatever species you're doing then animating them shouldn't be to much of a problem. I will admit though that the "clipping" through chair did bug me a little but I'd always figured that these were design oversights from the team trying to fix much larger problems with the game.

The big difference between Dragon Age: Origins (and possibly Dragon Age: Inquisition) with Mass Effect is the body types, very few races look similar from the neck down.  I think basically Humans, Asari, and Batarians are the closest three models in the game.  The other races look distinctively different and would move and interact with the world differently.

Those clipping areas aren't from design oversights, its from the animators doing the best they could with the amount of work they need to do.  Each interaction like that needs to be animated individually and each time you add a different race to the equation it adds another two animations for each cinematic moment in the game.

You need to forgive me for I have never played Skyrim for personal reasons, but from what I saw each character model looked to be identical except for the head so they can reuse the exact same animation for every interaction in the game. Skryim (if its like previous Elder Scrolls game) really doesn't have the cinematic moments that BioWare does add into their games.

Modifié par Sanunes, 02 février 2014 - 05:09 .

[N0rke]

It'd be cool, but I don't think it'd be realistically feasible.

Besides, I much rather they spend time fixing the face generator for the Next ME game. I'd much rather have it be easier to create a good looking Male Shepard than being able to pick from different species.

[uzivatel]

Most games ignore the choice of species outside the character design and few stats. DA:O tried,. but in the end there was little difference between the three species.
I would rather have some future ME DLC make me play using alien character(s).

[Malanek]

I don't think it is practical to allow a choice of any species for the SP story. I do think a choice of 4-5 is practical and would add a lot.

[Han Shot First]

I'm waiting to see how multiple playable species (all of whom are fully voiced) works for DA:I before I make up my mind on whether or not it should be in the next Mass Effect game. If the trade off is going to be a shorter game, I'd rather just have a human protagonist.

[SwobyJ]

Four major possibilities to me.

1)Keep to ME3 standard overall. Solid character (human or humanish) in single player. Arena or battlefield looking MP co-op.

2)Deviate a bit from ME3. Solid character in single player. However, co-op will now incorporate a significant story element, with cutscenes, decisions, more main story based sections.

3)Outright new. Species selection in single player, but the storyline doesn't deviate that much based on species (writing would often weave around issues with that). Co-op will incorporate either a large battlefield element, or even go up to #2's significant story element.

4)Above and Beyond. Species selection in single player, with even who other sections/story-parts/origin stories(?) based on it. Co-op will more likely have the significant story element, and both modes feed on each other for species assets a lot.


What do I think it'll be in the next game? Either #2 or #3 really. #1 would look lazy. #4 would be pretty damn nuts to attempt, and I'm not even sure Mass Effect's a series that should even have that much diversity based on SP species.

If they intend on a still more core storyline ("Mass Halo 4", in a sense), especially a more direct sequel (forget BW's words for second), then I'd think #2.

If they intend on a more side storyline (Mass Effect: Reach", in a sense), then I'd think #3.


In any case, I DO expect more *representation* from species in both game modes, even if we're still stuck into one 'species' role for SP.

I also think Versus modes are possible, but not as likely for the next game specifically.



#2 is most likely overall, in my mind.
#3 or #4 could be after, years from now.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 02 février 2014 - 08:22 .

[Vapaa]

wolfsite wrote...

The differences in customs and traits in the ME species would require a lot of work for animations, character model scales and for the animations to work for each unique animation.  This work can be done but when doing in game cut-scenes with customizable characters is where it gets tricky.  Best example in Mass Effect is if you play Female Shepard in ME2, the drink with Dr. Chakwas has the animations placing the glass in open air and female Shepard isn't sitting in the chair properly, plus some of the sitting Animations are poorly chosed to fit a female character.

I don't see the problem: DAI supports 4 races and as much different body types while being very cinematic and has a voiced protagonist. And MEN will be on the same engine, sharing a lot of its tech with DAI

[SwobyJ]

Yeah Vapaa. I only think that the next game may be a tip into the water for it (co-op story), instead of a full version of it (yet). Could be wrong!

[AlexMBrennan]

Skyrim and few other RPG's did it very well

Really? I mean, sure, you can customise the colour of the rear you'll be looking at for the next 100+ hours but otherwise you get one or two handwaves if race ever comes up (e.g. high elf joining the stormcloaks). You'd get a very close approximation if you hacked ME1 to replace Shepard's model with a turian or asari.

[Sanunes]

Vapaä wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

The differences in customs and traits in the ME species would require a lot of work for animations, character model scales and for the animations to work for each unique animation.  This work can be done but when doing in game cut-scenes with customizable characters is where it gets tricky.  Best example in Mass Effect is if you play Female Shepard in ME2, the drink with Dr. Chakwas has the animations placing the glass in open air and female Shepard isn't sitting in the chair properly, plus some of the sitting Animations are poorly chosed to fit a female character.

I don't see the problem: DAI supports 4 races and as much different body types while being very cinematic and has a voiced protagonist. And MEN will be on the same engine, sharing a lot of its tech with DAI

I haven't played Dragon Age Inquistion yet so its hard for me to say how different the body types are going to be, for if its like Dragon Age Origins, they aren't that different.