1033 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

@Lotion Soronnar: yes; Meredith asked permission for a RoA before (at least one time between the end of Act 2 and the start of Act 3); I agree that the issue is subjective, as well as your opinion on the RoA on Kirkwall.

[Lulupab]

hhh89 wrote...

@Lotion Soronnar: yes; Meredith asked permission for a RoA before (at least one time between the end of Act 2 and the start of Act 3); I agree that the issue is subjective, as well as your opinion on the RoA on Kirkwall.

That will remain as a plot hole I think. Like many other things. Meredith certainly doesn't act like she asked for RoA. She actually sometimes tries to sympathize with mages but in the same time ignores what her Templars are abusing their rank or she herself punishes mages severly.

In my opinion Cullen should have recognized Anders rigght away, I mean comon a mage escapes seven times in the cricle you serve you ought to remember him.

Also in last parts of game where Orsino and Meredith are argueing and Orsino says he will go to grand cleric, Anders comes forwards, his voice changes in middle of conversation, his body and eyes glow, he declares war on Templars, Meredith reaction:

"Explain yourself mage"

Lel, knight commander cannot recognize possession now? Not even Orsino? Or maybe glowing is common when mages are angry. Who knows its actually a small plot hole in comparison to other holes DA2 has. Trully a rushed game. DA:I has a lot to fix.

Modifié par Rassler, 03 février 2014 - 12:27 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...


If left completely unsupervised, the possibility does exist, yes. Very remote, but not impossible. But most here are arguing that mages just have more freedom than they had, not complete freedom with no supervision or restrictions at all. Even nonmages have to follow laws. Same with mages. And if one mage wants that, a single mage is easily taken care of as you yourself have said numerous times. And with the lesser restrictions, most mages have what they want and thus won't support those who want a Second Tevinter. And by your argument all we need is one charismatic mage that says that trying to make a second Tevinter is a terrible mistake and they'll follow them just as easily as the egomaniac.

As for Blood Magic use, it's hard for them to not know about it with how often it is used as an excuse to keep them subjugated like prisoners. Learning the actual art of blood magic is a lot harder and rarer than hearing about it. And the mages who have used blood magic so far are the occasional egomaniacs but mostly is used as a last defense against those about to do harm to the mage or someone important to the mage, such as the few mages in Kirkwall Circle who did after Meredith initiated the Right of Annulment on an innocent Circle or even Jowan after his lover Lily was about to be carted away.

Well lets say that system doesn't work already when it come about providing safety against magic so making less lawys/restrictions can only make it worse in that matter, and finally someone has to be in charge of that and sit on the top and there is only one place there and either it will be mage which jump into mages control or non-mage into non-mages control.  

Main idea behind circles was protect world from mages it didn't work mages simple can't be controled because abomnation can't be controled and mages regularly aren't spoted outside circles or just escape from circles.

As far i don't find any reason why i shouldn't kill mages all i need is few mages and i find many reasons to chop them so straight they cost much more then they are worth...

About blood magic not rly i would say sometimes it is used as defense but it is another excuse and we always will have plenty of them.It is easy to get tool that seems make you life better and easier many mages when opportunity allow it will use it .And well again blood magic make you more prone vulnerable to possesion and weaken veil... im not saying it is evil or not useful just dangerous. 

[The Elder King]

I agree that DA2 had numerous problems, though I recall that it was stated some where that Meredith asked for the RoA. I'll check up later and see if I can find if it'a true.

Modifié par hhh89, 03 février 2014 - 12:46 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Rassler wrote...


Lel, knight commander cannot recognize possession now? Not even Orsino? Or maybe glowing is common when mages are angry. Who knows its actually a small plot hole in comparison to other holes DA2 has. Trully a rushed game. DA:I has a lot to fix.

Anders isn't normal abomnation (i would even argue that he isn't abomnation but that depends on your defitition what that means ).Anders is possesed by spirit/former spirit and glowing eyes aren't normal abomnation sign so i guess anders and wynne are special caes because they are possesed by spirits. 

[MisterJB]

Banxey2 wrote...
4. Not all apostates are Malificar. Some are capable of living outside of the circle within Andrastan laws while policing themselves (Mages Collective).

They placed requests in a bag and hoped someone strong enough selected them. That is not a reliable system of policing.

And some of those requests were quite sinister.

[dragonflight288]

hhh89 wrote...

I agree that DA2 had numerous problems, though I recall that it was stated some where that Meredith asked for the RoA. I'll check up later and see if I can find if it'a true.

It's in Act 3 if Kerres lives past Act 1. He'll mention in dialogue that Meredith requested the Right of Annulment, but Elthina turned her down, so she sent the request to the Divine. Then he goes on to say "these robes will get what's coming to them."

[The Elder King]

dragonflight288 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I agree that DA2 had numerous problems, though I recall that it was stated some where that Meredith asked for the RoA. I'll check up later and see if I can find if it'a true.

It's in Act 3 if Kerres lives past Act 1. He'll mention in dialogue that Meredith requested the Right of Annulment, but Elthina turned her down, so she sent the request to the Divine. Then he goes on to say "these robes will get what's coming to them."

Thanks for the confirming it:).

[dragonflight288]

hhh89 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I agree that DA2 had numerous problems, though I recall that it was stated some where that Meredith asked for the RoA. I'll check up later and see if I can find if it'a true.

It's in Act 3 if Kerres lives past Act 1. He'll mention in dialogue that Meredith requested the Right of Annulment, but Elthina turned her down, so she sent the request to the Divine. Then he goes on to say "these robes will get what's coming to them."

Thanks for the confirming it:).

No problem. 

[DKJaigen]

leaguer of one wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Rassler wrote...
He thinks war with Templars is wrong when the only reason for war is change yet he suggests changes? We both know Templars would not change under any circumstance. During a thousand year they have made it worse and worse for the mages. 

Are we getting back the the double standard of "generalize all Templars, but don't do it to mages"?

That is not a double standard. templars share a common political and ideological view while mages are simply born as mages and currently share 6 distinct political  views. And i can and will blame all templars for the current mess the thedas is in currently.

I'm going to say this one more time...Mages and templars have to work TOGETHER!!!!!!

How is that going to happen if you have a mindset like that?

To be honest from my point of view the current generation templars are better of completely destroyed. I cannot thrust or build on an police force is that is completely made of drug addicts. no matter how much the templars will try they will fail in their task.

[DKJaigen]

As for Fiona i like her but actions in the last novel doesnt make sense as it is akin to suicide. Unless the grey wardens put her their as a plant in an effort to destroy the current status quo. Which would make sense.

[DKJaigen]

MisterJB wrote...

Banxey2 wrote...
4. Not all apostates are Malificar. Some are capable of living outside of the circle within Andrastan laws while policing themselves (Mages Collective).

They placed requests in a bag and hoped someone strong enough selected them. That is not a reliable system of policing.

And some of those requests were quite sinister.

Neither is an army of drug addicted zealots. you can ask yourself how many true malficar escaped justice by supplying the templars with their fix.

[TK514]

DKJaigen wrote...

To be honest from my point of view the current generation templars are better of completely destroyed. I cannot thrust or build on an police force is that is completely made of drug addicts. no matter how much the templars will try they will fail in their task.

It's Terrible that there's an entire group of people who sacrifice their personal health and well-being to protect the general populace from the dangers of misused magic.

Fortunately, the Qunari have provided an alternative that apparently does not involve ingesting a dangerous mineral to counteract magic.  If they would just teach the rest of Thedas how to construct those control rods, the world would be a better place.

[LobselVith8]

DKJaigen wrote...

As for Fiona i like her but actions in the last novel doesnt make sense as it is akin to suicide. Unless the grey wardens put her their as a plant in an effort to destroy the current status quo. Which would make sense.

It's not all that different from the Hero of Ferelden asking for the Circle of Ferelden to be given it's independence, except Fiona is democratically fighting for all the Circles to be given their autonomy, rather than simply one single Circle.

[The Elder King]

@LobselVith8: the difference between the Warden and Fiona is that the former was asking support from the king of a country, and he gained immense popularity by stopping the Blight; the latter was demanding separation under difficult circumstances and when the leaders of the mages where surrounded by templars.
@DKJaigen: since you seem to be against the use of lyrium, do you have any theory on how to reorganize the templar order in a way that they retain their efficiency?

[TheKomandorShepard]

hhh89 wrote...

@DKJaigen: since you seem to be against the use of lyrium, do you have any theory on how to reorganize the templar order in a way that they retain their efficiency?

Well hire someone competent? But that would raise efficiency not make that same.
And lyrium is needed if you want have anti-magical skills at least it is only known way in thedas.Not that i claim that junkies are doing great job but good luck dealing abominations without them... 
 

[dragonflight288]

hhh89 wrote...

@LobselVith8: the difference between the Warden and Fiona is that the former was asking support from the king of a country, and he gained immense popularity by stopping the Blight; the latter was demanding separation under difficult circumstances and when the leaders of the mages where surrounded by templars.
@DKJaigen: since you seem to be against the use of lyrium, do you have any theory on how to reorganize the templar order in a way that they retain their efficiency?

This response wasn't towards me, but I thought I may as well include my two cents.

Yes, what Fiona was doing was pretty extreme, and was provoking a templar response. But this isn't the first time it's been put on the table or voted on, and the previous two times it happened that we know of, it didn't end in the bloody response Lambert initiated either.

I actually don't really like Fiona that much, but I have to say that what she was doing was perfectly legitimate, and had there not been an attack at all, the odds of her succeeding were much lower than it was at the end of Asunder, as Lambert's actions made the mages feel like they had no choice. That and Wynne was now dead and couldn't dissuade the college, along with most of the First Enchanters who otherwise would've voted.

As for the response to DKJaigen and lyrium, I have another suggestion.

We use dwarves! Think about it, they don't need lyrium to gain a resistance to magic. Dwarves are naturally resistant to magic. To the point that they can use lyrium to do their own enchantments without needing tranquil or mages. If dwarves learned templar techniques, it stands to reason that they would have a considerably longer shelf-life, so to speak, than human templars (I have never seen an elven one.) And they wouldn't be reliant on the Chantry to support them either, as they are the ones who mine it.

[Hellion Rex]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:

I am pro-mage. Very much so. I respect Fiona's magical competence. My Wardens also appreciate that she found a way to cure the Taint.

Yet, Fiona is completely unfit to be a leader of any kind. She's too emotional, and emotional in an unbalanced way. I have no idea who had the insane idea of making her Grand Enchantress, a position which is about politics rather than magical expertise. The best she'll ever be is a figurehead to unify the mages, but Maker help all the mages if she'll ever have to make real decisions.

Ah, Ieldra, swooping in with common sense. Perfect post!

[The Elder King]

@thekomandorshepard: I was strictly talking about lyrium that gives an advantage over mages, not that the current templars are the best possible templars; though more than recruiting, i think that they need to improve the training.
@dragonflight288: I agree that dwarves would make excellent templars. The problem is that I doubt that we can form enough templars from dwarves (expecially becuase they're not interested in being templars).
Though my question, as I said, was based on the fact that DKJaigen seems against the use of lyrium; while agree that there are ways to make the templars more efficient, lyrium is still fundamental for them, which is my point against DKJaigen's view.

[The Elder King]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:

I am pro-mage. Very much so. I respect Fiona's magical competence. My Wardens also appreciate that she found a way to cure the Taint.

Yet, Fiona is completely unfit to be a leader of any kind. She's too emotional, and emotional in an unbalanced way. I have no idea who had the insane idea of making her Grand Enchantress, a position which is about politics rather than magical expertise. The best she'll ever be is a figurehead to unify the mages, but Maker help all the mages if she'll ever have to make real decisions.

Agreed completely (except that I'm neutral and not pro-mage ).
As I said before, I'd like a lot a mage like Malcolm Hawke (from what we know about him) as the new leader.

[Hellion Rex]

TK514 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

To be honest from my point of view the current generation templars are better of completely destroyed. I cannot thrust or build on an police force is that is completely made of drug addicts. no matter how much the templars will try they will fail in their task.

It's Terrible that there's an entire group of people who sacrifice their personal health and well-being to protect the general populace from the dangers of misused magic.

Fortunately, the Qunari have provided an alternative that apparently does not involve ingesting a dangerous mineral to counteract magic.  If they would just teach the rest of Thedas how to construct those control rods, the world would be a better place.

For the first part of your post, I agree. I think that a Templar's duty and life can be tragic.

As for the second half, you must be joking. Nothing good can come from that level of magical stagnation and oppression.

[Lulupab]

dragonflight288 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I agree that DA2 had numerous problems, though I recall that it was stated some where that Meredith asked for the RoA. I'll check up later and see if I can find if it'a true.

It's in Act 3 if Kerres lives past Act 1. He'll mention in dialogue that Meredith requested the Right of Annulment, but Elthina turned her down, so she sent the request to the Divine. Then he goes on to say "these robes will get what's coming to them."

I reloaded a save. That bastard. I actually let him live by fooling him either myself or with help of Varric. On future play throughs however:



I will let Justice burn him.

Modifié par Rassler, 03 février 2014 - 07:09 .

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

For the first part of your post, I agree. I think that a Templar's duty and life can be tragic.

As for the second half, you must be joking. Nothing good can come from that level of magical stagnation and oppression.

Going by the tone of the first part, I would assume the second part is satire.

[The Elder King]

@dragonflight288: I forgot to talk about Fiona. My point was that the Warden asked for the Circle to be free in different condition and in a relatively safe way for the mages, while Fiona demanded i a situation of tension and she put the mages of the conclave in danger. Though I think that without Adrian's actions it wouldn't have come to conflict. I think Wynne would've resolved the situation.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Rassler wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I agree that DA2 had numerous problems, though I recall that it was stated some where that Meredith asked for the RoA. I'll check up later and see if I can find if it'a true.

It's in Act 3 if Kerres lives past Act 1. He'll mention in dialogue that Meredith requested the Right of Annulment, but Elthina turned her down, so she sent the request to the Divine. Then he goes on to say "these robes will get what's coming to them."

I reloaded a save. That bastard. I actually let him live by fooling him either myself or with help of Varric. On future play throughs however:



I will let Justice burn him.

You remind me of someone. A certain lord who used to frequent these parts a lot.

I hated him.