1033 réponses à ce sujet

[Banxey]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]Banxey2 wrote...
4. Not all apostates are Malificar. Some are capable of living outside of the circle within Andrastan laws while policing themselves (Mages Collective).[/quote]

And how does the mage collective deal with their problems?
Hireing ureliable mercenaries. Adds.
I just don't see the Mage Collective system as viable.[/quote]

That's not actually how the collective works, the Warden was a special case. But my point wasn't really whether or not it is something that is a solution, but rather that mages are capable of policing themselves to a point. If something like the collective existed within an agreement with Chantry-controlled Templars, it might prove to be something worthwhile.

[quote]Yes, because they were practicing mass possesion.
This is what happens when you give mages too much freedom.[/quote]

Practicing mass possession is quite an alarmist term for it. What they were doing was training some female mages in Rivaini traditions which predate the Chantry. It seems highly unlikely that these people would have less of a grasp on the inherint difficulties of such a practice than a group of Templars. It is also telling that these people live in close proximity to a large community, and a large community of Qunari, and yet they don't have such significant problems that the Templars and Chantry felt the need to do anything about it. If they didn't know about it beforehand, well that just speaks volumes as to how "out of control" Dairsmuid really was.

[quote]These adults wield powers unlike any other and are coveted by demons.
Damn right you dont' trust them to police themselves.
You cannot even trust them that they are themselves, rather than being a flesh puppet for a demon.
[/quote][/quote]
The demons don't covet mages, they covet life. Mages have a connection to the fade which makes it easier for demons to get access to mortal life. Maybe that's just semantics, but your point that you can't trust them or know whether or not they are currently in possession is a fairly broad statement. And considering mages have to willingly succumb to/or seek out demons in order to be a threat, to actually assess the danger you have to look at the numbers and the likelyhood of a scenario of a self-controlled group of people all succumbing to demons before anyone within that group can raise the alarm. It is very, very unlikely. And perhaps more likely when the group is relying on Templars to police them because their peers will think nothing of a fellow mage acting secretive.

With that said, I am neither anti-Templar, or pro-Blood Mage. But I am not going to condemn and imprison an entire group of people based on the actions of psychopaths, or people who make poor decisions while staring at the pointy end of a Templar's sword.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

They placed requests in a bag and hoped someone strong enough selected them. That is not a reliable system of policing.

And some of those requests were quite sinister.
[/quote]

The game mechanics were a little misleading. I recently started replaying the game and the codex mentions that the collective are a group who rely on others within the group to help them with their problems. The Warden was a special case. But yes, the Scrolls of Bannister quest was a little suspicious. I wasn't saying that the system was ideal, but it shows that there are mages outside of the Chantry who adhere to their principles and deal with Malificar in the same way the Chantry does.

Modifié par Banxey2, 03 février 2014 - 10:11 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lvl20DM wrote...

Wild speculation on my part, but I think it may be possible that Fiona is an early casualty of the Veil Tear in Inquisition. This is based on the idea that the Veil Tear kills most everyone at a peace conference - I suspect that Fiona as Grand Enchanter is likely to be at the conference, as would Justinia.

Of course, that would also remove a potentially dynamic character from the narrative very early, so maybe not.

I doubt they will kill off so many important characters in the first minute of the game. I mean, yeah they did it with Cailan and Duncan but that was for plot and because the mentor character always dies. 

At the supposed peace conference, they will probably send ambassadors. So people like Fiona and especially Justinia would not go in person.

[Br3admax]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Uh... those are kind of very different people.

Doesn't really affect his point in any way. 

[Lvl20DM]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Lvl20DM wrote...

Wild speculation on my part, but I think it may be possible that Fiona is an early casualty of the Veil Tear in Inquisition. This is based on the idea that the Veil Tear kills most everyone at a peace conference - I suspect that Fiona as Grand Enchanter is likely to be at the conference, as would Justinia.

Of course, that would also remove a potentially dynamic character from the narrative very early, so maybe not.

I doubt they will kill off so many important characters in the first minute of the game. I mean, yeah they did it with Cailan and Duncan but that was for plot and because the mentor character always dies. 

At the supposed peace conference, they will probably send ambassadors. So people like Fiona and especially Justinia would not go in person.

That's also a likelihood. It may even be that a Human Mage Inquisitor is the ambassador of the Mages sent by Fiona!

[Banxey]

eluvianix wrote...

Rassler wrote...

But guys as grand enchanter Fiona is default leader of mage rebellion. Unless this changes some time in the game, until then Fiona is leading the war. I did not make this thread to suggest make her the leader because she is already the leader with first enchanter Adrian and senior enchanter Rhys as 2nd in commands, probably.

Not necessarily. She still needed a collective vote to get the ball rolling at Asunder's end. If she runs the show alone, she's gonna lead them to death pretty quickly. It ought to be run similar to the vote, with the Fraternity collectively coming to make a decision.

This is the only way they'll be able to accomplish anything. Well, that and having Adrian kept well away. Rhys is in control of the largest fraternity and has a Templar advisor (if you could concede to calling Evangeline that). So he's in a good position to stop Fiona from doing too much damage.

LobselVith8 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

That said, I wonder how the (attempted) Magi Boon might influence Thedas post-Circle emancipation. Perhaps Fiona might be leading some mages in the nation. 

Well, the Magi Boon backfired did it not, with the Divine contemplating another "Exalted March". I doubt Fiona would lead the mages in Ferelden though. If she was smart, she would deal with Mage politics in Val Royeaux, post MT War, since she's gonna have to work closely with Justinia to make sure mages don't get steam rolled. That being said, I would rather have an Aequitarian like Rhys or someone like Wynne, to help reconstitute magical policy in Thedas. 

An Exalted March against the independent Circle of Orzammar, but the ramifications of the Magi Boon are never properly addressed for Ferelden. I'm also not sure why Fiona should work with Justina when the Chantry has lost control of their militant arm.

Fiona wont want to work with Justinia. But she should. Justinia has more power than just military might. She has the ability to control how the common people percieve the mages if she can get a handle on the people within the Chantry who are working against her.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lvl20DM wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Lvl20DM wrote...

Wild speculation on my part, but I think it may be possible that Fiona is an early casualty of the Veil Tear in Inquisition. This is based on the idea that the Veil Tear kills most everyone at a peace conference - I suspect that Fiona as Grand Enchanter is likely to be at the conference, as would Justinia.

Of course, that would also remove a potentially dynamic character from the narrative very early, so maybe not.

I doubt they will kill off so many important characters in the first minute of the game. I mean, yeah they did it with Cailan and Duncan but that was for plot and because the mentor character always dies. 

At the supposed peace conference, they will probably send ambassadors. So people like Fiona and especially Justinia would not go in person.

That's also a likelihood. It may even be that a Human Mage Inquisitor is the ambassador of the Mages sent by Fiona!

Quite possibly. I mean, the 'apostate mage' roles are already covered by the Dalish Elf and Vashoth Qunari mages I would assume, so that leaves the slot of former Circle mage to the human. 

[MisterJB]

Banxey2 wrote...
The game mechanics were a little misleading. I recently started replaying the game and the codex mentions that the collective are a group who rely on others within the group to help them with their problems. The Warden was a special case. But yes, the Scrolls of Bannister quest was a little suspicious. I wasn't saying that the system was ideal, but it shows that there are mages outside of the Chantry who adhere to their principles and deal with Malificar in the same way the Chantry does.

The way you described it makes it sound exactly like the game mechanics. They place a request in a bag and hope someone within the group is willing to assist them which is an extremely unreliable method. What if no one sees the request? What if they don't feel the money offered is enough? What if the request is only answered too late?

Also, the Scrolls of Bannastor was not the only suspicious quest. Remember that one where we must warn supposedly victims of false accusations of being blood mages? And how do we do it? By painting their doors with blood. What, is there no chalk in Thedas? No coal? Just leaving a mark with a knife would be enough.

And then there was that one where we're supposed to intercept a group that, supposedly, mistook common magic for blood magic and are on their way to talk to the Grand Cleric and deliver an "innocent" mage to the gallows. And this despite the fact there was a mage within said group and he would be able to distinguish between blood magic and other types of magic.

This all leads me to believe the Collective is a loosely affiliated group of mages, both normal and maleficar, who cover for each other and don't really care what the others do so long as they don't attract the attention of Templars and Chantry.
Basically, just another example of mages being unwilling to take responsibility for the wrongdoings of their peers. Hardly an exemplary group.

[Master Warder Z_]

Banxey2 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Rassler wrote...

But guys as grand enchanter Fiona is default leader of mage rebellion. Unless this changes some time in the game, until then Fiona is leading the war. I did not make this thread to suggest make her the leader because she is already the leader with first enchanter Adrian and senior enchanter Rhys as 2nd in commands, probably.

Not necessarily. She still needed a collective vote to get the ball rolling at Asunder's end. If she runs the show alone, she's gonna lead them to death pretty quickly. It ought to be run similar to the vote, with the Fraternity collectively coming to make a decision.

This is the only way they'll be able to accomplish anything. Well, that and having Adrian kept well away. Rhys is in control of the largest fraternity and has a Templar advisor (if you could concede to calling Evangeline that). So he's in a good position to stop Fiona from doing too much damage.

LobselVith8 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

That said, I wonder how the (attempted) Magi Boon might influence Thedas post-Circle emancipation. Perhaps Fiona might be leading some mages in the nation. 

Well, the Magi Boon backfired did it not, with the Divine contemplating another "Exalted March". I doubt Fiona would lead the mages in Ferelden though. If she was smart, she would deal with Mage politics in Val Royeaux, post MT War, since she's gonna have to work closely with Justinia to make sure mages don't get steam rolled. That being said, I would rather have an Aequitarian like Rhys or someone like Wynne, to help reconstitute magical policy in Thedas. 

An Exalted March against the independent Circle of Orzammar, but the ramifications of the Magi Boon are never properly addressed for Ferelden. I'm also not sure why Fiona should work with Justina when the Chantry has lost control of their militant arm.

Fiona wont want to work with Justinia. But she should. Justinia has more power than just military might. She has the ability to control how the common people percieve the mages if she can get a handle on the people within the Chantry who are working against her.

My point directly deals with your comment on Justina.

She did indeed have immense public sway pre asunder tis true but then the Accord was disolved and the chantry broke into schism.

She has loyalists obviously but we do not yet no if they are in the minority or if Lambert's Ideals caught like wildfire among the chantry as well.

So my point is.

Justina thanks to her own incompetence and lack of reverence for duty has stripped away much of her power; Over the Templars and the Chantry.

Therefore if she has lost control of the chantry and she has grand cleric's publically denouncing her it is hard to believe the common people will take her words to heart.

[Banxey]

MisterJB wrote...

The way you described it makes it sound exactly like the game mechanics. They place a request in a bag and hope someone within the group is willing to assist them which is an extremely unreliable method. What if no one sees the request? What if they don't feel the money offered is enough? What if the request is only answered too late?

Also, the Scrolls of Bannastor was not the only suspicious quest. Remember that one where we must warn supposedly victims of false accusations of being blood mages? And how do we do it? By painting their doors with blood. What, is there no chalk in Thedas? No coal? Just leaving a mark with a knife would be enough.

And then there was that one where we're supposed to intercept a group that, supposedly, mistook common magic for blood magic and are on their way to talk to the Grand Cleric and deliver an "innocent" mage to the gallows. And this despite the fact there was a mage within said group and he would be able to distinguish between blood magic and other types of magic.

This all leads me to believe the Collective is a loosely affiliated group of mages, both normal and maleficar, who cover for each other and don't really care what the others do so long as they don't attract the attention of Templars and Chantry.
Basically, just another example of mages being unwilling to take responsibility for the wrongdoings of their peers. Hardly an exemplary group.

Sorry, I thought you meant they relied on mercenaries or something.

And yes, those are also questionable missions (though the blood on the door seems more of a reference to the Bible). I never said it was a perfect system, or was not able to be abused. And I'm sure outside of the watch of the Chantry, they would explore magic that they weren't able to normally. That doesn't mean that they willingly accept maleficar or tolerate their actions if they become aware of it. One of the missions does involve killing actual blood mages, after all. So I don't agree with you that they are all unwilling to take responsibility.

Modifié par Banxey2, 03 février 2014 - 11:11 .

[Master Warder Z_]

Banxey2 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The way you described it makes it sound exactly like the game mechanics. They place a request in a bag and hope someone within the group is willing to assist them which is an extremely unreliable method. What if no one sees the request? What if they don't feel the money offered is enough? What if the request is only answered too late?

Also, the Scrolls of Bannastor was not the only suspicious quest. Remember that one where we must warn supposedly victims of false accusations of being blood mages? And how do we do it? By painting their doors with blood. What, is there no chalk in Thedas? No coal? Just leaving a mark with a knife would be enough.

And then there was that one where we're supposed to intercept a group that, supposedly, mistook common magic for blood magic and are on their way to talk to the Grand Cleric and deliver an "innocent" mage to the gallows. And this despite the fact there was a mage within said group and he would be able to distinguish between blood magic and other types of magic.

This all leads me to believe the Collective is a loosely affiliated group of mages, both normal and maleficar, who cover for each other and don't really care what the others do so long as they don't attract the attention of Templars and Chantry.
Basically, just another example of mages being unwilling to take responsibility for the wrongdoings of their peers. Hardly an exemplary group.

Sorry, I thought you meant they relied on mercenaries or something.

And yes, those are also questionable missions (though the blood on the door seems more of a reference to the Bible). I never said it was a perfect system, or was not able to be abused. And I'm sure outside of the watch of the Chantry, they would explore magic that they weren't able to normally. That doesn't mean that they willingly accept maleficar or tolerate their actions if they become aware of it. One of the missions does involve killing actual blood mages, after all. So I don't agree with you that they are all unwilling to take responsibility.

You mean the rivals of the guy fetching the scrolls so he can become an even more powerful blood mage?

Excuse me for not making him a saint after he has me go fetch some dusty old parchment and kill his competion.

._.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes, the Blood of Warning quest was loosely based off the plague in Egypt that killed the firstborn son of every household, and that the Isrealites were to paint their doors in goat's blood to ward off the angel of Death by alerting him that the faithful live in that house and thus leave it alone.

[Master Warder Z_]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Yes, the Blood of Warning quest was loosely based off the plague in Egypt that killed the firstborn son of every household, and that the Isrealites were to paint their doors in goat's blood to ward off the angel of Death by alerting him that the faithful live in that house and thus leave it alone.

Based loosely off of...Doesn't negate they were likely hexes or glyphes designed to kill or otherwise harm the first person to open the door.

._.

Wicked Robes.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Yes, the Blood of Warning quest was loosely based off the plague in Egypt that killed the firstborn son of every household, and that the Isrealites were to paint their doors in goat's blood to ward off the angel of Death by alerting him that the faithful live in that house and thus leave it alone.

Based loosely off of...Doesn't negate they were likely hexes or glyphes designed to kill or otherwise harm the first person to open the door.

._.

Wicked Robes.

Well, like the Angel of Death did the people opening the door should hasve left that house alone. 

[Master Warder Z_]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Yes, the Blood of Warning quest was loosely based off the plague in Egypt that killed the firstborn son of every household, and that the Isrealites were to paint their doors in goat's blood to ward off the angel of Death by alerting him that the faithful live in that house and thus leave it alone.

Based loosely off of...Doesn't negate they were likely hexes or glyphes designed to kill or otherwise harm the first person to open the door.

._.

Wicked Robes.

Well, like the Angel of Death did the people opening the door should hasve left that house alone. 

Like Templars doing their duty or even the occupants of the homes themselves, i always thought they were just killing off the people they sent the Warden to "Warn" to compartmentalize their orginization given it was obviously springing leaks around that time.

._. makes no difference considering the ultimate fate of the collective aka they are all friggin dead in the dirt as they should be.

And smearing a bit of blood on a door doesn't make you a blibical figure.

It makes you have bloody hands.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Yes, the Blood of Warning quest was loosely based off the plague in Egypt that killed the firstborn son of every household, and that the Isrealites were to paint their doors in goat's blood to ward off the angel of Death by alerting him that the faithful live in that house and thus leave it alone.

Based loosely off of...Doesn't negate they were likely hexes or glyphes designed to kill or otherwise harm the first person to open the door.

._.

Wicked Robes.

Well, like the Angel of Death did the people opening the door should hasve left that house alone. 

Like Templars doing their duty or even the occupants of the homes themselves, i always thought they were just killing off the people they sent the Warden to "Warn" to compartmentalize their orginization given it was obviously springing leaks around that time.

._. makes no difference considering the ultimate fate of the collective aka they are all friggin dead in the dirt as they should be.

And smearing a bit of blood on a door doesn't make you a blibical figure.

It makes you have bloody hands.

I was just having some humor with my last comment and the serious one before it was replying to the person saying they thought it was based off the Bible.

[Banxey]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Banxey2 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Rassler wrote...

But guys as grand enchanter Fiona is default leader of mage rebellion. Unless this changes some time in the game, until then Fiona is leading the war. I did not make this thread to suggest make her the leader because she is already the leader with first enchanter Adrian and senior enchanter Rhys as 2nd in commands, probably.

Not necessarily. She still needed a collective vote to get the ball rolling at Asunder's end. If she runs the show alone, she's gonna lead them to death pretty quickly. It ought to be run similar to the vote, with the Fraternity collectively coming to make a decision.

This is the only way they'll be able to accomplish anything. Well, that and having Adrian kept well away. Rhys is in control of the largest fraternity and has a Templar advisor (if you could concede to calling Evangeline that). So he's in a good position to stop Fiona from doing too much damage.

LobselVith8 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

That said, I wonder how the (attempted) Magi Boon might influence Thedas post-Circle emancipation. Perhaps Fiona might be leading some mages in the nation. 

Well, the Magi Boon backfired did it not, with the Divine contemplating another "Exalted March". I doubt Fiona would lead the mages in Ferelden though. If she was smart, she would deal with Mage politics in Val Royeaux, post MT War, since she's gonna have to work closely with Justinia to make sure mages don't get steam rolled. That being said, I would rather have an Aequitarian like Rhys or someone like Wynne, to help reconstitute magical policy in Thedas. 

An Exalted March against the independent Circle of Orzammar, but the ramifications of the Magi Boon are never properly addressed for Ferelden. I'm also not sure why Fiona should work with Justina when the Chantry has lost control of their militant arm.

Fiona wont want to work with Justinia. But she should. Justinia has more power than just military might. She has the ability to control how the common people percieve the mages if she can get a handle on the people within the Chantry who are working against her.

My point directly deals with your comment on Justina.

She did indeed have immense public sway pre asunder tis true but then the Accord was disolved and the chantry broke into schism.

She has loyalists obviously but we do not yet no if they are in the minority or if Lambert's Ideals caught like wildfire among the chantry as well.

So my point is.

Justina thanks to her own incompetence and lack of reverence for duty has stripped away much of her power; Over the Templars and the Chantry.

Therefore if she has lost control of the chantry and she has grand cleric's publically denouncing her it is hard to believe the common people will take her words to heart.

That depends on things we don't know. We don't know how much support she has in the Chantry or from splintered Templars/Seekers, or whether people within the Chantry will openly oppose her. We're dealing with the head of a religion, not just a faction. Many people believe she was rather miraculously nominated for the position by the previous Divine Beatrix III moments before her death. She is in opposition to a man who helped raise the black Divine, whether or not he still thinks that was a good idea wont matter in a religious throw down.

I can't really argue with you over things I have no in-world confirmation on, but my view is that religions don't tend to be controlled like armies. The Divine serves a function similar to a Catholic Pope, if some priests in the clergy denounce him will all the millions of people who travel to Vatican City, or worship him across the world believe it? I doubt it. People just don't function that way. 

And as far as her lack of reverence for duty, she hasn't defied any of Andraste's teachings as far as I can see. Considering the Chantry was built up after Andraste's death the only thing she is defying are rules set forth by political leaders using Andraste's teaching to control the populace. If this is the case, more power to her. 

[Banxey]

Master Warder Z wrote...

You mean the rivals of the guy fetching the scrolls so he can become an even more powerful blood mage?

Excuse me for not making him a saint after he has me go fetch some dusty old parchment and kill his competion.

._.

The ones in the forest. The scrolls are a different quest I think. Otherwise I don't know what you're talking about.

[Veruin]

Banxey2 wrote...

The ones in the forest. The scrolls are a different quest I think. Otherwise I don't know what you're talking about.

Yea, he sends you after them because he's afraid of them drawing Templar attention to the area.  No cares given for the blood magic itself.

Modifié par Veruin, 03 février 2014 - 11:40 .

[Banxey]

Veruin wrote...

Banxey2 wrote...

The ones in the forest. The scrolls are a different quest I think. Otherwise I don't know what you're talking about.

Yea, he sends you after them because he's afraid of them drawing Templar attention to the area.  No cares given for the blood magic itself.

"My worst fears have been realized: A band of devilish maleficarum are performing their profane rituals within close proximity to my own sanctum! This cannot stand. I, Jubasto, charge he who accepts this request to destroy the fiends before their evil brings unwanted attention from either templars or demons to my back door! Travel to the Brecilian Forest and slay these blasphemers!"

He was pretty concerned about his home. But he was hardly "Meh, blood magic."

Modifié par Banxey2, 03 février 2014 - 11:55 .

[SuperSitzkrieg]

.....go templars?

[Hellion Rex]

Burn this witch!!!!!

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Mages in nutshell:

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Banxey2 wrote...
That's not actually how the collective works, the Warden was a special case. [/quote]

Is he?
They don't have the capability to safely deal with abominations and blood mages, that's hte point.


[quote]
[quote]Yes, because they were practicing mass possesion.
This is what happens when you give mages too much freedom.[/quote]

Practicing mass possession is quite an alarmist term for it. What they were doing was training some female mages in Rivaini traditions which predate the Chantry.[/quote]

ALL female mages were allowing fade entites to posses them. Considering a danger even one such possesion presents, I'm surprised they were no annuled a long time ago...and that they managed to keep the scale of possesions hidden for so long.


[quote]
It seems highly unlikely that these people would have less of a grasp on the inherint difficulties of such a practice than a group of Templars. It is also telling that these people live in close proximity to a large community, and a large community of Qunari, and yet they don't have such significant problems that the Templars and Chantry felt the need to do anything about it. If they didn't know about it beforehand, well that just speaks volumes as to how "out of control" Dairsmuid really was.[/quote]

We don't know anything about the specifics.

What we DO know is that there are demons and corrupted spirits that are very smart and very patient....and good at hiding.


[quote]
[quote]These adults wield powers unlike any other and are coveted by demons.
Damn right you dont' trust them to police themselves.
You cannot even trust them that they are themselves, rather than being a flesh puppet for a demon.
[/quote][/quote]
The demons don't covet mages, they covet life. Mages have a connection to the fade which makes it easier for demons to get access to mortal life. Maybe that's just semantics, but your point that you can't trust them or know whether or not they are currently in possession is a fairly broad statement.[/quote]

It's not. Mages are living portals to the Fade. Mages are demon bait.
Demons covet mages above all other hosts. It's in the codex.

[quote]
And considering mages have to willingly succumb to/or seek out demons in order to be a threat, to actually assess the danger you have to look at the numbers and the likelyhood of a scenario of a self-controlled group of people all succumbing to demons before anyone within that group can raise the alarm. It is very, very unlikely.[/quote]

Willingly? No, demons can forcefully posses.
It is enough that ONE powerfull demon crosses. A single powerfull abomination can start a domino effect.
Look at Uldred.


[quote]
With that said, I am neither anti-Templar, or pro-Blood Mage. But I am not going to condemn and imprison an entire group of people based on the actions of psychopaths, or people who make poor decisions while staring at the pointy end of a Templar's sword.[/quote]

Neither would I. And that's not why people condemn them.
They condemn them because they are walking dangers wether they want it or not. The personality of a mages has precious little to do with it

[Lotion Soronarr]

Banxey2 wrote...

I can't really argue with you over things I have no in-world confirmation on, but my view is that religions don't tend to be controlled like armies. The Divine serves a function similar to a Catholic Pope, if some priests in the clergy denounce him will all the millions of people who travel to Vatican City, or worship him across the world believe it? I doubt it. People just don't function that way.

You don't know history much, do you?

Schisms have been caused by people with far less clout than Lambert and popes have been assasinated.

[Lulupab]

eluvianix wrote...

Burn this witch!!!!!

Wasnt fire Fiona's favorite element? Or was it Adrian's? I forgot