1033 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

No? Perhaps blood boiling? Lightning bolt to the chest? Ice spike through the heart?

I approve ice magic of all forms.   Ice spikes sounds good, but I'd personally freeze her from the inside out.

Those are...better.

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...
I approve ice magic of all forms.   Ice spikes sounds good, but I'd personally freeze her from the inside out.

Perhaps freezing the blood in her veins? That ought to be painful lol.
But I would only do this should she screw up with "leading" the mages.

[thetinyevil]

Veruin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

I understand them all just fine. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't understand the game, lore or the Chantry.

If you understand it, you would be able to understand at a minimum that you can be pro-circle and still be pro-mage.  This has nothing to do with you agreeing with me.

I see the Circle as a hell hole that only the brokenor those like Kali who are so brainwashed into hating herself so much she wants to have everything that she is burned way or killed except . How can someone support a system that is such a horrible thing and claim to support the victims of it, while wanting to keep that horrible broken system going? 

[Veruin]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Those are...better.

I detect sarcasm. 

eluvianix wrote...

Perhaps freezing the blood in her veins? That ought to be painful lol.
But I would only do this should she screw up with "leading" the mages.

Painful? possibly.  Fun to watch?  You bet your ass it would be.  This of course isn't restricted to Fiona.  If there's a wide variety of spells, I might roll mage quizzy more than once.

thetinyevil wrote...

I see the Circle as a hell hole that only the brokenor those like Kali who are so brainwashed into hating herself so much she wants to have everything that she is burned way or killed except . How can someone support a system that is such a horrible thing and claim to support the victims of it, while wanting to keep that horrible broken system going? 

That's exactly the problem.  It's what YOU see.  You see things that aren't there. If the circle is so bad, why are there not more Kellis?  If we are raising them from birth to hate themselves, why is she the only one?

It's not where near as horrible as you think, but I remember I tried this before, but you continue to see what you want to see.

Modifié par Veruin, 06 février 2014 - 03:47 .

[Hellion Rex]

thetinyevil wrote...
I see the Circle as a hell hole that only the brokenor those like Kali who are so brainwashed into hating herself so much she wants to have everything that she is burned way or killed except . How can someone support a system that is such a horrible thing and claim to support the victims of it, while wanting to keep that horrible broken system going?

You do know that the term "pro-Circle" encompasses more than you are giving it credit for, right? It doesn't have to mean supporting things as they were. It also can mean you support the structure of the Circles themselves, even though the power dynamics were to be changed greatly between mages and templars.

[The Elder King]

eluvianix wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@eluvianix: I don't care that much about Fiona, but when we talked about Asunder's characters (before I read the book on December) I recall that you didn't have an opinion that negative of Fiona. Did something change? Or did I misread your posts?

RIght now, Fiona seems like she might run the mages straight into the ground, especially with a firebrand like Adrian whispering in her ear. Fiona is all power and emotion, no temperance and restraint. She may be "Grand Enchanter", but that doesn't make her a good leader, at all. But I will reserve judgment until I meet her in game, if she's still alive at that point.

I agree with your opinion about her. It seems though I mistook it in the past. 

thetinyevil wrote...

That is just my opinion on it. I just can't see how someone who is pro-Circle can be pro-mage. I just can't see it. And being a pro-templar does automatically some an anti-mage. You can't support templars without hating mages and wanting them to be little more then mindless tools to point at your enemy to make them go away. How can someone not be anti-mage and be pro-templar, they can't.

Both games shown templars that don't follow this mindset. So no, one doesn't have to hate mages or consider them tools or subhumans to be pro-templar. 

[thetinyevil]

eluvianix wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...
I see the Circle as a hell hole that only the brokenor those like Kali who are so brainwashed into hating herself so much she wants to have everything that she is burned way or killed except . How can someone support a system that is such a horrible thing and claim to support the victims of it, while wanting to keep that horrible broken system going?

You do know that the term "pro-Circle" encompasses more than you are giving it credit for, right? It doesn't have to mean supporting things as they were. It also can mean you support the structure of the Circles themselves, even though the power dynamics were to be changed greatly between mages and templars.

I keep trying to remind myself of that but I can't help but think they mean the old system. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Veruin wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Those are...better.

I detect sarcasm. 

Not really. They are not as bad, though still terrible ways to go, as burned alive and thus are technically 'better'.

[thetinyevil]

hhh89 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@eluvianix: I don't care that much about Fiona, but when we talked about Asunder's characters (before I read the book on December) I recall that you didn't have an opinion that negative of Fiona. Did something change? Or did I misread your posts?

RIght now, Fiona seems like she might run the mages straight into the ground, especially with a firebrand like Adrian whispering in her ear. Fiona is all power and emotion, no temperance and restraint. She may be "Grand Enchanter", but that doesn't make her a good leader, at all. But I will reserve judgment until I meet her in game, if she's still alive at that point.

I agree with your opinion about her. It seems though I mistook it in the past. 

thetinyevil wrote...

That is just my opinion on it. I just can't see how someone who is pro-Circle can be pro-mage. I just can't see it. And being a pro-templar does automatically some an anti-mage. You can't support templars without hating mages and wanting them to be little more then mindless tools to point at your enemy to make them go away. How can someone not be anti-mage and be pro-templar, they can't.

Both games shown templars that don't follow this mindset. So no, one doesn't have to hate mages or consider them tools or subhumans to be pro-templar. 

In both games I seen a total of two templars who didn't think this way, no wait maybe three. Don't say Greagoir he thinks the way the Qunair handle their mages is the way to go.

[The Elder King]

@thetinyevil: Nope, Gregoir NEVER said that the qunari's method is the way to go. He said that the qunari wouldn't have been in that situation, which is completely true (regardless of how horrible I think their method to handle mages is). If his mindset would've been the same of the qunari, he'd have killed all the mages tha survived, or killed Anders the first time he escape and was brought back.

Modifié par hhh89, 06 février 2014 - 03:53 .

[Veruin]

If he had the same mindset as a qunari, he would've killed you and all your companions just for speaking with you. True story.

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

If he had the same mindset as a qunari, he would've killed you and all your companions just for speaking with you. True story.

Heck, he wouldn't have even bothered sending to Denerim for the Rite. He would have started the killing the minute Uldred rebelled.

[The Elder King]

Veruin wrote...

If he had the same mindset as a qunari, he would've killed you and all your companions just for speaking with you. True story.

Yeah, this too.
I can understand if someone has a problem with Gregoir and gives a reasonable explanation, but saying that he has the same mindset of the qunari is completely false.

[TEWR]

Dare I ask where this thread is at now?

[thetinyevil]

hhh89 wrote...

@thetinyevil: Nope, Gregoir NEVER said that the qunari's method is the way to go. He said that the qunari wouldn't have been in that situation, which is completely true (regardless of how horrible I think their method to handle mages is). If his mindset would've been the same of the qunari, he'd have killed all the mages tha survived, or killed Anders the first time he escape and was brought back.

Ander is a spirit healer very rare and very useful tool nothing more. It wasn't some sort of compassion or kindness it was usefulness. Also I'm sure it would have been a pain in the ass to have to order more mages to replace the dead ones. 

I also took what he said to mean he agreed with the way the Qunari deal with their mages. I thought you did too? Aren't you anti-mage? Or am I mis-reading things again?

Modifié par thetinyevil, 06 février 2014 - 04:00 .

[The Elder King]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Dare I ask where this thread is at now?

Discussing if pro-templars and pro-Circles are automatically anti-mage. Gregoir's supposed qunari mindset. 

[Hellion Rex]

thetinyevil wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@thetinyevil: Nope, Gregoir NEVER said that the qunari's method is the way to go. He said that the qunari wouldn't have been in that situation, which is completely true (regardless of how horrible I think their method to handle mages is). If his mindset would've been the same of the qunari, he'd have killed all the mages tha survived, or killed Anders the first time he escape and was brought back.

Ander is a spirit healer very rare and very useful tool nothing more. It wasn't some sort of compassion or kindness it was usefulness. Also I'm sure it would have been a pain in the ass to have to order more mages to replace the dead ones.
I also took what he said to mean he agreed with the way the Qunari deal with their mages. I thought you did too? Aren't you anti-mage? Or am I mis-reading things again.

Ok, Anders was not kept alive for any utilitarian purpose, to be some tool. If that was so, why in the world would they put him in solitary confinement, for a year? And yes, you are totally misreading hhh89, and generalizing. Again.

[TEWR]

hhh89 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Dare I ask where this thread is at now?

Discussing if pro-templars and pro-Circles are automatically anti-mage. Gregoir's supposed qunari mindset. 

Ah okay. To address those points for whatever posters brought them up:

Nope, being those things doesn't make one automatically anti-mage. And I'm one of the pro-mage posters on the forums.

And Gregoir's definitely not a Qunari-esque Templar. All he does is say that the Qunari wouldn't have encountered the same situation, not that he necessarily approves of their methods.

"The tower is no longer ours."
"This is why we cut the tongues of our mages in Par Vollen."
"I'm inclined to agree with your friend. Maker knows the Qunari wouldn't have encountered the same situation."

Sten basically says that because they're so harsh, they don't encounter those types of incidents, and Gregoir simply says "Yeah, that's true."

Nothing more, nothing less.

[The Elder King]

@thetinyevil: Qunari don't care one bit about a mage's uselfuness. If you escape, you're dead.
Gregoir responded to Sten's comment about the reason they cut tongues in Par-Vollen, and stated that he had a point, since they woudn't have been in that situation. Which doesn't mean he supported cutting tongues or putting mages on leash.
And no, I'm definitely not anti-mage, and I absolutely don't support qunari method. I'm neutral. I don't get what part of my posts lead you to think that I'm anti-mage, or support qunari method.

[thetinyevil]

eluvianix wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@thetinyevil: Nope, Gregoir NEVER said that the qunari's method is the way to go. He said that the qunari wouldn't have been in that situation, which is completely true (regardless of how horrible I think their method to handle mages is). If his mindset would've been the same of the qunari, he'd have killed all the mages tha survived, or killed Anders the first time he escape and was brought back.

Ander is a spirit healer very rare and very useful tool nothing more. It wasn't some sort of compassion or kindness it was usefulness. Also I'm sure it would have been a pain in the ass to have to order more mages to replace the dead ones.
I also took what he said to mean he agreed with the way the Qunari deal with their mages. I thought you did too? Aren't you anti-mage? Or am I mis-reading things again.

Ok, Anders was not kept alive for any utilitarian purpose, to be some tool. If that was so, why in the world would they put him in solitary confinement, for a year? And yes, you are totally misreading hhh89, and generalizing. Again.

They put him in Solitary Confinement to break him, what good is a tool that won't listen to you. 

Okay I will read hhh89 more carefully and try not to reply when angry.

[The Elder King]

@thetinyevil: regardless of the reason they put Anders on confinement, it's still not a qunari method. They don't give chances to live to mages that escaped, or even that lost their arvaraad. They kill them, in every case.

[Veruin]

thetinyevil wrote...

They put him in Solitary Confinement to break him, what good is a tool that won't listen to you. 

Okay I will read hhh89 more carefully and try not to reply when angry.

It was a punishment.  You break the rules, there are consequences.  

Hell, the mages can't really even be tools since at Ostagar, there were what, 7 mages sent?   Out of a tower full of them?

[TEWR]

They put him in Solitary Confinement to break him, what good is a tool that won't listen to you.

While I'll not condone their placing him in solitary confinement for a year as it is psychologically damaging, he had escaped seven times before that. And all of those times, Irving spoke up for him and said that he wasn't a danger to anyone. Gregoir heeded Irving's counsel every time.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

With the grouping of people, I've noticed it tends to be a spectrum like this:
Anti-Mage < Pro-Templar < Pro-Circle < Pro-Compromise > Anti-Circle > Pro-Mage > Anti-Templar

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 06 février 2014 - 04:14 .

[thetinyevil]

Veruin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

They put him in Solitary Confinement to break him, what good is a tool that won't listen to you. 

Okay I will read hhh89 more carefully and try not to reply when angry.

It was a punishment.  You break the rules, there are consequences.  

Hell, the mages can't really even be tools since at Ostagar, there were what, 7 mages sent?   Out of a tower full of them?

Yes I see why people support the circle. Mage you want to see the sky? Feel the wind on your face? Breath fresh air? It will only cost you sixty lashes and a month in a tiny dark room where you will most likely die of infection just like you deserve. After all, we know you mages will turn into abomantions the second the sun touches your face or you eat after midnight.