1033 réponses à ce sujet

[Veruin]

thetinyevil wrote...
Yes I see why people support the circle. Mage you want to see the sky? Feel the wind on your face? Breath fresh air? It will only cost you sixty lashes and a month in a tiny dark room where you will most likely die of infection just like you deserve. After all, we know you mages will turn into abomantions the second the sun touches your face or you eat after midnight.

Aaaaaand we are back to the generalizing and only seeing whatever you want to see.


It's also worth mentioning that the tower has windows, so they do get sky, wind, and fresh air.

They would get more if Anders didn't screw up the outside exercises they had.  But, y'know.  Freedom and all that jazz.

Modifié par Veruin, 06 février 2014 - 04:18 .

[thetinyevil]

Veruin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...
Yes I see why people support the circle. Mage you want to see the sky? Feel the wind on your face? Breath fresh air? It will only cost you sixty lashes and a month in a tiny dark room where you will most likely die of infection just like you deserve. After all, we know you mages will turn into abomantions the second the sun touches your face or you eat after midnight.

Aaaaaand we are back to the generalizing and only seeing whatever you want to see.


It's also worth mentioning that the tower has windows, so they do get sky, wind, fresh air.

They would get more if Anders didn't screw up the outside exercises they had.  But, y'know.  Freedom and all that jazz.

Do you really think the windows open? And they get fresh air? No to both. Seeing the sky throw a window is very different they seeing it with your naked eye. And Anders would have screwed it up for everyone if the Chantry and Templars weren't such dicks and treated all mages like ticking time bombs. I don't blame Anders for running. Having some one breath down my neck who could do whatever the hell he wanted to me and get away with it. Besides there weren't many windows that I saw and the one I did see were stain glass so they couldn't see anything but light. 

[Veruin]

Depends on the window. The ones in the library? No. The one's on the higher levels? Yes.

I must be missing out since I just looked outside at the full moon through my window. Then I went outside to look at it again. Only difference between the two was that I got cold when I went out.

Again, with your biased view. What is your solution to the mage conundrum? Total integration into normal society?

The current system is not perfect. No system will be. But, even so. The current system is nowhere near as bad as you believe it to be.

If they could do whatever the hell they wanted, why did Alrik even bother try to hide his crimes? Certainly, they would've just said "Haha, stupid mage. Carry on Ser Alrik!", in your mind anyway.

[SgtSteel91]

I got a question: If there were some way to reduce the risk of demonic temptation and possession to near zero for all mages, would you be willing to give more freedoms to mages?

[Hellion Rex]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

I got a question: If there were some way to reduce the risk of demonic temptation and possession to near zero for all mages, would you be willing to give more freedoms to mages?

At what cost though? There has to be a magical trade off for a cure to possession.

[thetinyevil]

Veruin wrote...

Depends on the window. The ones in the library? No. The one's on the higher levels? Yes.

I must be missing out since I just looked outside at the full moon through my window. Then I went outside to look at it again. Only difference between the two was that I got cold when I went out.

Again, with your biased view. What is your solution to the mage conundrum? Total integration into normal society?

The current system is not perfect. No system will be. But, even so. The current system is nowhere near as bad as you believe it to be.

If they could do whatever the hell they wanted, why did Alrik even bother try to hide his crimes? Certainly, they would've just said "Haha, stupid mage. Carry on Ser Alrik!", in your mind anyway.

When you aren't even allowed near a door to the outside world looking at the sky throug a window is very different from looking at it with your naked eye. 

There should be some integration with society, it would give the mages more reason not to turn to demons. If they had something worth protecting that was actually theirs and not property owned by the circle. 

The current system is a hell hole. It allows horrble abuses to happen with abusers having no need to worry about punishment. The system isn't as good as you seem to think it is.

Alirk didn't hide his crime, he didn't put the tranquil in a closet and tell the to stay hidden he priaded them around. Remember that coverastion between the tranquil and the apperentice? "I am Ser Alrik's now,". They pretty much did say "Haha, stupid mage. Carry on Ser Alrik!". He didn't hide it, pretty much everyone knew and did nothing. Hell Cullen didn't care about the Harrowed mages being made Tranquil in fact he wanted to use Alrik's "Tranquil Solution". 

[Shelondias]

I was pretty surprised that she got the honor of being the first one in the entire series to drop the all powerful F-bomb.
Unless something happened in the very first comics I am unaware of. lol

[SgtSteel91]

eluvianix wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

I got a question: If there were some way to reduce the risk of demonic temptation and possession to near zero for all mages, would you be willing to give more freedoms to mages?

At what cost though? There has to be a magical trade off for a cure to possession.

Mages can still use their powers? They're just not acosted by demons as much as they were before? Will normal people keep the Circle system because they can't trust mages to not abuse their powers, not because they are ticking time bombs as some posters would say?

[TheKomandorShepard]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

I got a question: If there were some way to reduce the risk of demonic temptation and possession to near zero for all mages, would you be willing to give more freedoms to mages?

At what cost though? There has to be a magical trade off for a cure to possession.

Mages can still use their powers? They're just not acosted by demons as much as they were before? Will normal people keep the Circle system because they can't trust mages to not abuse their powers, not because they are ticking time bombs as some posters would say?

If you ask what i would do in such case i just stop care about mages as they aren't ticking bombs anymore and even not such danger as they were before.If you ask about societes i doubt simple chantry would start use excuse with tevinter and blood magic.

[SgtSteel91]

Actually how about this:

As part of the main quest to repair the Veil Tear, the Inquisition indadvertedly strengthens the Veil between the Mortal Realm and the Fade. This has the benefit of making it harder for Demons and Spirits to reach out from the Fade; they can't just infiltrate the dreams of mages and normal peole like they used to and the only concrete way they can come into the mortal realm is by being summoned by a mage. Conversely, it is harder for mages to draw power from the Fade to use their spells. Think in gameplay terms that all spells cost double the mana to cast. But more mages would be willing to turn to Blood Magic to give themselves the extra juice needed to cast spells and since, in their minds, they are less susceptible to posession.

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 06 février 2014 - 05:29 .

[Sir JK]

To bring this back to Fiona.

My primary wonder right now is what her's, and the rest of the mage leadership's, plans are. Both how they'll handle a war and what to do after the end of the circles. Do they even have one? Or was it a case of "let's free ourselves first and then deal with what happens"?
I've never seen any mage discussing freedom actually address this issue and I'm curious to see if there was a plan behind it all or merely just a strong desire to be free.

I don't really fault Fiona for what she attempted to do in the White Spire. Lambert was not the de jure leader of the White Spires templars (he was a Seeker) and as such I wouldn't be surprised if she did not have too good an idea of what man she was dealing with.

Not only that but given that the College of Magi had been all but dismantled (because it undermined the Divine's authority, something she couldn't afford if she was to improve the lot for mages) it was the only opportunity she would get to rally the mages behind her cause.

I am concerned however about her trying to redo a previously lost vote (secession was voted down in Cumberland after all) under different voting circumstances. It sounds a bit like manipulating the system to get what she wants, not what the mages as a collective may want. Yeah, there were circumstances that may have warranted it... but I'm not sure how highly it speaks of her.

Which is why I am even more curious if she in particular has any plans for what happens next.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@Sir JK: Well, the mages will almost definitely rely on guerrilla tactics in their fight, since they don't have the numbers or strength to face the Templars in a straight up fight.

[Lotion Soronarr]

thetinyevil wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@thetinyevil: Nope, Gregoir NEVER said that the qunari's method is the way to go. He said that the qunari wouldn't have been in that situation, which is completely true (regardless of how horrible I think their method to handle mages is). If his mindset would've been the same of the qunari, he'd have killed all the mages tha survived, or killed Anders the first time he escape and was brought back.

Ander is a spirit healer very rare and very useful tool nothing more. It wasn't some sort of compassion or kindness it was usefulness. Also I'm sure it would have been a pain in the ass to have to order more mages to replace the dead ones.

What drug are you on right now?

Order new mages? From where? Home shopping channel?

Do you have any proof Gregoir doesn't have compassion (even tough his own lines clearly show he has plenty)

I also took what he said to mean he agreed with the way the Qunari deal with their mages. I thought you did too? Aren't you anti-mage? Or am I mis-reading things again?

You are mis-reading everything. All the time. Again and again.

City: Dellusionville
Population: you.

[Lulupab]

Sir JK wrote...

To bring this back to Fiona.

My primary wonder right now is what her's, and the rest of the mage leadership's, plans are. Both how they'll handle a war and what to do after the end of the circles. Do they even have one? Or was it a case of "let's free ourselves first and then deal with what happens"?
I've never seen any mage discussing freedom actually address this issue and I'm curious to see if there was a plan behind it all or merely just a strong desire to be free.

I don't really fault Fiona for what she attempted to do in the White Spire. Lambert was not the de jure leader of the White Spires templars (he was a Seeker) and as such I wouldn't be surprised if she did not have too good an idea of what man she was dealing with.

Not only that but given that the College of Magi had been all but dismantled (because it undermined the Divine's authority, something she couldn't afford if she was to improve the lot for mages) it was the only opportunity she would get to rally the mages behind her cause.

I am concerned however about her trying to redo a previously lost vote (secession was voted down in Cumberland after all) under different voting circumstances. It sounds a bit like manipulating the system to get what she wants, not what the mages as a collective may want. Yeah, there were circumstances that may have warranted it... but I'm not sure how highly it speaks of her.

Which is why I am even more curious if she in particular has any plans for what happens next.

Well Fiona indeed manipulates the system but not to get what she wants but to get what most mages want. Biggest mage fraternities Liberitarians and Aequitarians back her up, that is like close to 70% of all mages.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The vote was rigged and all mages were not voting.
REPRESENTATIVES were voting.
A dozen mages.

[Lulupab]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The vote was rigged and all mages were not voting.
REPRESENTATIVES were voting.
A dozen mages.

Libertarians numbers were growing quite steady with each passing year becoming 2nd most popular fraternity only behind the Aequitarians. Resolutionists were also backing them up. 

Aequitarians however are somewhat neutral, they don't like the chantry but they don't oppose it either. They promote a moderate and popular viewpoint that mages must use their abilities in a responsible and ethical manner, regardless of the Chantry or Templars law. With events of Asunder they realize that as long as under control, something very close to tryanny there is no room for them to uphold their values hence supporting the Libertarians. They are represented by Rhys but didn't he vote against separation the first time? Events of asunder have really angered the mages.

Before the separation vote some circles already revolted and some were close to do so, mainly due to the events of Kirkwall this clearly means mages wanted this. Eventually All mages in all circles successfully break out of Templar control and left the circles. All except Dairsmuid circle which got annulled. So the Templars fail to keep unpossessed mages in circles in over 15 locations that housed circles. This both shows mages are not as weak as some people think they are and the mages seem quite happy with the vote and are more than willing to fight for it. Not all of them, sure but most certainly the majority of them.

Modifié par Rassler, 06 février 2014 - 11:43 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Wrong. It shows no such thing.

Convincing people they have no way out and must fight, or putting them in front of a done deal, effectively taking away any choice does NOT mean they support your choice.
Did all mages in Kirkwall want to fight? Nope. They did it anyway because Anders *DERP* and Meredith left them no choice.

As to how the mages managed to flee.... we do not know. Maybe the templars let them flee? (since technicly, neither side was part of the circle system anymore)
Maybe they only did so they could gather them in one place?
Or maybe because plot. I have no idea.

However, the latest info suggest mages are under siege and the impression is not one of a war going well for them.

[Adanu]

Until the nations of thedas learn the lesson that modern day mages are NOT responsible for something a few psychopaths in ancient times did, there is no choice but war.

Anyone who thought the circle as it was was anything but a band aid on a much larger problem is naive, only thinking short term, and shows a total lack of compassion.

Pro templars make me sick on these boards with their blindness.

[Dave of Canada]

Adanu wrote...

Pro templars make me sick on these boards with their blindness.

Blind people make you sick? Wow, so offensive.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Adanu wrote...

Until the nations of thedas learn the lesson that modern day mages are NOT responsible for something a few psychopaths in ancient times did, there is no choice but war.

Anyone who thought the circle as it was was anything but a band aid on a much larger problem is naive, only thinking short term, and shows a total lack of compassion.

Pro templars make me sick on these boards with their blindness.

Yes mages are just for 10 thousand other up problems in Thedas oh and every mage psychopath or not is same danger as that you pointed psychopats in ancient times... deal with that

but as well think that circle was stupid idea that assumed that mages can be controled kill mages problem solved and then kill new-born mages and repeat.

[Veruin]

Adanu wrote...
*snip*

It's too early in the morning for people to deal with bullsh- like this.

[MisterJB]

Adanu wrote...

Until the nations of thedas learn the lesson that modern day mages are NOT responsible for something a few psychopaths in ancient times did, there is no choice but war.

People know that, the Circles are about prevention, not punishment. 

Oh, and a war might just not be the best way to show how very different from Tevinter they are.

Pro templars make me sick on these boards with their blindness.

Thank you, posts like this are what makes it all worth it at the end of the day.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Adanu wrote...

Until the nations of thedas learn the lesson that modern day mages are NOT responsible for something a few psychopaths in ancient times did, there is no choice but war.

Mhmm...

You mean they should learn something they already know?

Anyone who thought the circle as it was was anything but a band aid on a
much larger problem is naive, only thinking short term, and shows a
total lack of compassion.

Pro templars make me sick on these boards with their blindness.

- thinking short term
- naive
- blind

[Jaison1986]

MisterJB wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Until the nations of thedas learn the lesson that modern day mages are NOT responsible for something a few psychopaths in ancient times did, there is no choice but war.

People know that, the Circles are about prevention, not punishment. 

Oh, and a war might just not be the best way to show how very different from Tevinter they are.

Pro templars make me sick on these boards with their blindness.

Thank you, posts like this are what makes it all worth it at the end of the day.

Only if they use the war as an excuse to attack civilians and the like. But why attacking the Templars would make they look like magisters? They are simply fighting off their aggressors.

[MisterJB]

That's the way you see it. I see it differently and I have access to all the information the lore can provide.
Not only do the people of Thedas don't have this commodity, they already hate the mages to begin with. Seeing them using their magic to impose their will upon the world will not endear them to anyone, even if no mage attacked civilians, summoned demons or became an Abomination which is impossible, anyway.