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[Veruin]

I hope they can keep lyrium supply lines cut off for months. Since Gaider said that the abilties are active for quite awhile after.

"Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards."

Modifié par Veruin, 06 février 2014 - 08:18 .

[KaiserShep]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

It all depends if you want to take a chance with winning the Landsmeet with less favorable odds (no matter how small they seem to you) to bring street justice to Kendells or if winning the Landsmeet matters more than personal feelings.

I rescued Kendells. But I believe Hardened King Alistair isn't going to let Kendells get away with what he could during Calin's rule.

Eh, my human noble doesn't kill him, because this would be the very first encounter, and he's just sitting in a cell, but you do get a fairly good idea of what he is even with that origin, so I could never free him either. I consider the impact of his absence at the landsmeet a perfectly acceptable risk.

[addiction21]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...


Instead of hiding among family, chances are they'll hide in remote regions, like deep in the forest or mountains, both of which provide plenty of cover to hide and sustenance to eat. Just look at the Dalish. They've been doing it for centuries.

Yes the Dalish have been doing it for centuries and its why they seem so successful to you eyes. The shift mages have to go thru from having a roof over their head and food provided to them is drastic. A big factor to a successful guerilla campaign is the support of the general population and mages are already pariahs. So what happens when they have been eating scraps of food weeks and they come upon a farm?

Guerilla warfare is grueling even in the best of circumstances and mages in this setting also have that specter of temptation and possession looming over them. Then abusing their powers and further alienating a population who are not big fans of them in the first place.

[SgtSteel91]

Veruin wrote...

I hope they can keep lyrium supply lines cut off for months. Since Gaider said that the abilties are active for quite awhile after.

"Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards."

They can keep their abilites for months, but can the Templars keep their cool when they are not feeding their addiction?

[Hellion Rex]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

I hope they can keep lyrium supply lines cut off for months. Since Gaider said that the abilties are active for quite awhile after.

"Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards."

They can keep their abilites for months, but can the Templars keep their cool when they are not feeding their addiction?

My guess is that if caught early enough, you could probably wean (sp?) a Templar off. But for an experienced Templar, the lyrium is just as much as a power boost as it is to keep their sanity.

[Sir JK]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I figured that they would break into small cells, so that's not a real problem. Once set up, the mages primary targets should be the supply chains, especially the lyrium ones. Take away the lyrium, and a Templar is just a guy with a sword as Alistair put it, but also suffering withdrawls and thus easier to hit.

As for the Dalish, that's the interesting part. Will they leave the mages alone, or will the concurrent civil unrest with the elves cause the two to work together in an 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' situation.

Ah, but those supply chains don't go through remote regions now, do they? They go to Jader, Highever, Western Hills and Halamshiral and are then packed on ships and sent to the Templar strongholds in the middle of civilisation.

The mages can't both hit the Lyrium and be in a remote region at the same time.

As for the Dalish, are you so sure the Dalish won't be hostile to the mages? After all. They're eating their food, taking their campsites and bringing templars hot on their heels. Why on earth would the Dalish want them there?

[LobselVith8]

Saints944 wrote...

Has anyone stated that they are a fan of Fiona yet?

I like Fiona. I'm not certain how my protagonist will react to Fiona (especially if she's a leader in the mage rebellion) since I'm aiming for a Dalish Inquisitor, but as a fan of Dragon Age, I respect the character and her aspiration to liberate her people from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars. “I came to the Circle from the Grey Wardens because I saw something had to be done. In the Wardens, we learn to watch for our moment and seize it - and that moment is now.”

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Sir JK wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I figured that they would break into small cells, so that's not a real problem. Once set up, the mages primary targets should be the supply chains, especially the lyrium ones. Take away the lyrium, and a Templar is just a guy with a sword as Alistair put it, but also suffering withdrawls and thus easier to hit.

As for the Dalish, that's the interesting part. Will they leave the mages alone, or will the concurrent civil unrest with the elves cause the two to work together in an 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' situation.

Ah, but those supply chains don't go through remote regions now, do they? They go to Jader, Highever, Western Hills and Halamshiral and are then packed on ships and sent to the Templar strongholds in the middle of civilisation.

The mages can't both hit the Lyrium and be in a remote region at the same time.

As for the Dalish, are you so sure the Dalish won't be hostile to the mages? After all. They're eating their food, taking their campsites and bringing templars hot on their heels. Why on earth would the Dalish want them there?

No, but they can launch operations from remote areas to attack the shipping lanes, then retreat back into the woodwork. 

As I said, relationships between the Dalish and Orlais are strenuous at best right now, and since every group who can be at war seems to be in Inquisition, I wouldn't be surprised if these two reach a boiling point. Thus, better to have the mages on your side to help with Orlais rather thn face them on their own. In exchange, Dalish help mages with Templars. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Regardless, I'm just trying to spark actual conversation and speculation rather than the bashing that has been happening most o this thread.

[dragonflight288]

This thread has progressed since last I checked on it.

[LobselVith8]

thetinyevil wrote...

Yes the circle is a wonderful place. How could I be so wrong. No mages aren't beaten or raped. No mages aren't abused and if they suck up enough and scrape their belly's on the ground after sixty or so years they will be allowed outside. So wonderful. I'm sorry I was so wrong.

I think it's made explicitly clear in the narrative that the toxic enviornment of the Chantry controlled Circles isn't diminished simply because the mages have beds and nice clothes. Some real world slaves were given fine clothes and housing as well, but that didn't mean that there was nothing wrong with slavery. I doubt so many mages would risk their lives - and their humanity - in running away from the Circle Towers if the Chantry controlled Circles were all rainbows and sunshine. It's clearly an issue that causes a schism among many people for obvious reasons, but I've strongly opposed it.

The fact that it's mentioned how many mages commit suicide in despair over their situation informs me that it's not an idyllic paradise, especially when some characters go as far as to condemn the institution as slavery. Even the pro-mage Champion of Kirkwall can express this view of the Circle.

Given a millennia of servitude and death, I perfectly understand why Fiona refused to condone the status quo of the Chantry controlled Circles, and sought to bring about autonomy for the Circles of Magi. I understand that not everyone shares my opinion of Fiona or the Chantry controlled Circles, but I'm simply sharing why thoughts on the matter.

[Martyr1777]

eluvianix wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Veruin wrote...

I hope they can keep lyrium supply lines cut off for months. Since Gaider said that the abilties are active for quite awhile after.

"Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards."

They can keep their abilites for months, but can the Templars keep their cool when they are not feeding their addiction?

My guess is that if caught early enough, you could probably wean (sp?) a Templar off. But for an experienced Templar, the lyrium is just as much as a power boost as it is to keep their sanity.

I would expect the addiction to play a role in the bring about of red templars actually. I mean I can't see why the would  want to use something with a track record of turning people into monsterous psycopaths. So it was to easy the withdrawls that they started using red lyrium.

*shrug*

[Martyr1777]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

Has anyone stated that they are a fan of Fiona yet?

I like Fiona. I'm not certain how my protagonist will react to Fiona (especially if she's a leader in the mage rebellion) since I'm aiming for a Dalish Inquisitor, but as a fan of Dragon Age, I respect the character and her aspiration to liberate her people from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars. “I came to the Circle from the Grey Wardens because I saw something had to be done. In the Wardens, we learn to watch for our moment and seize it - and that moment is now.”

The mentality is understandable... the personality that shows in the writing? Yeah, she's an annoying hot headed judgemental b*. I mean She knew nothing about Maric, he wasn't like some Chantry lapdog or Templar lover but for whatever reason she despises him for simply being King. It's one thing to dislike Nobles that hold ot over the head of other classes but Maric obviously never did that and yet she still hated him.

So either bad writing (Sorry DG lol) or just a bad person. When you have that much pent up anger and are so judgemental you fling it around without understanding situations... well if she's leading the Mages they aren't going to win.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Martyr1777 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

Has anyone stated that they are a fan of Fiona yet?

I like Fiona. I'm not certain how my protagonist will react to Fiona (especially if she's a leader in the mage rebellion) since I'm aiming for a Dalish Inquisitor, but as a fan of Dragon Age, I respect the character and her aspiration to liberate her people from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars. “I came to the Circle from the Grey Wardens because I saw something had to be done. In the Wardens, we learn to watch for our moment and seize it - and that moment is now.”

The mentality is understandable... the personality that shows in the writing? Yeah, she's an annoying hot headed judgemental b*. I mean She knew nothing about Maric, he wasn't like some Chantry lapdog or Templar lover but for whatever reason she despises him for simply being King. It's one thing to dislike Nobles that hold ot over the head of other classes but Maric obviously never did that and yet she still hated him.

So either bad writing (Sorry DG lol) or just a bad person. When you have that much pent up anger and are so judgemental you fling it around without understanding situations... well if she's leading the Mages they aren't going to win.

I thought her hatred of Maric was justified. I mean, look at her only experience with nobles. 

[thetinyevil]

Martyr1777 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

Has anyone stated that they are a fan of Fiona yet?

I like Fiona. I'm not certain how my protagonist will react to Fiona (especially if she's a leader in the mage rebellion) since I'm aiming for a Dalish Inquisitor, but as a fan of Dragon Age, I respect the character and her aspiration to liberate her people from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars. “I came to the Circle from the Grey Wardens because I saw something had to be done. In the Wardens, we learn to watch for our moment and seize it - and that moment is now.”

The mentality is understandable... the personality that shows in the writing? Yeah, she's an annoying hot headed judgemental b*. I mean She knew nothing about Maric, he wasn't like some Chantry lapdog or Templar lover but for whatever reason she despises him for simply being King. It's one thing to dislike Nobles that hold ot over the head of other classes but Maric obviously never did that and yet she still hated him.

So either bad writing (Sorry DG lol) or just a bad person. When you have that much pent up anger and are so judgemental you fling it around without understanding situations... well if she's leading the Mages they aren't going to win.

She distrusted/hated all human nobility because of what happened to her as a child. You know the guy who kept her her as a slave and beat & raped until she killed him when her magic manifested.

[Martyr1777]

LobselVith8 wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

Yes the circle is a wonderful place. How could I be so wrong. No mages aren't beaten or raped. No mages aren't abused and if they suck up enough and scrape their belly's on the ground after sixty or so years they will be allowed outside. So wonderful. I'm sorry I was so wrong.

I think it's made explicitly clear in the narrative that the toxic enviornment of the Chantry controlled Circles isn't diminished simply because the mages have beds and nice clothes. Some real world slaves were given fine clothes and housing as well, but that didn't mean that there was nothing wrong with slavery. I doubt so many mages would risk their lives - and their humanity - in running away from the Circle Towers if the Chantry controlled Circles were all rainbows and sunshine. It's clearly an issue that causes a schism among many people for obvious reasons, but I've strongly opposed it.

The fact that it's mentioned how many mages commit suicide in despair over their situation informs me that it's not an idyllic paradise, especially when some characters go as far as to condemn the institution as slavery. Even the pro-mage Champion of Kirkwall can express this view of the Circle.

Given a millennia of servitude and death, I perfectly understand why Fiona refused to condone the status quo of the Chantry controlled Circles, and sought to bring about autonomy for the Circles of Magi. I understand that not everyone shares my opinion of Fiona or the Chantry controlled Circles, but I'm simply sharing why thoughts on the matter.

Really, for an idea what Mages could be feeling I think the description in Asunder of how new mages were first brought to that circle can be pretty telling. Not exactly a good first impression.

Now thats not to say all Circles and Templars are like that. But since any of them are and mages have no rights to resistt/protest it... well you get the war.

[Veruin]

thetinyevil wrote...

She distrusted/hated all human nobility because of what happened to her as a child. You know the guy who kept her her as a slave and beat & raped until she killed him when her magic manifested.

There's a difference between being cautious around a type of people and straight up "F- you because you remind me of what I loathe." 

[Sir JK]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
No, but they can launch operations from remote areas to attack the shipping lanes, then retreat back into the woodwork. 

As I said, relationships between the Dalish and Orlais are strenuous at best right now, and since every group who can be at war seems to be in Inquisition, I wouldn't be surprised if these two reach a boiling point. Thus, better to have the mages on your side to help with Orlais rather thn face them on their own. In exchange, Dalish help mages with Templars. 

Perhaps. Personally I suspect that while they might camp in the wilds, I doubt it'll be in remote regions. But regardless, we should steer this back to Fiona... as interesting as this is.

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Regardless, I'm just trying to
spark actual conversation and speculation rather than the bashing that
has been happening most o this thread.

Yeah. Me too

LobselVith8 wrote...
Given a millennia of servitude and death, I perfectly understand why
Fiona refused to condone the status quo of the Chantry controlled
Circles, and sought to bring about autonomy for the Circles of Magi. I
understand that not everyone shares my opinion of Fiona or the Chantry
controlled Circles, but I'm simply sharing why thoughts on the matter.

Why she did it is fairly obvious though. I may not share hers and your picture of how bad the circles actually are (they're bad too often mind, even in the best cases) but I perfectly understand how it motivated her.

The interesting question is what kind of a person she is besides that motivation. How dirty hands is she prepared to get? How prepared is she to stand up to people like Adrian (who has clearly demonstrated she's willing to go far)? Will she think theoretical freedom is more important than practical freedom?

Will she manage to lead the mages when the loss of the circle's resources start to make it's presence truly felt?

Modifié par Sir JK, 06 février 2014 - 10:14 .

[Martyr1777]

thetinyevil wrote...

She distrusted/hated all human nobility because of what happened to her as a child. You know the guy who kept her her as a slave and beat & raped until she killed him when her magic manifested.

Yes... And as I said having that kind of anger and being that judgemental in assuming ALL human nobility are the same as the SINGLE individual with no other referance... well, thats not a good thing.

And like I said, it's not like Maric even act's or sounds like a noble. I mean if Fiona and Maric met in a similar fashion as Loghain met Maric then she wouldn't eve have any idea he was a noble, hence have no reason for such feelings. Then if she finds out he is a noble her personality would suddenly change?

She paints pictures she wants to see, whether real or imagined. So unless she's notably different from those earlier years. Which I didn't get that impression at all from Asunder. Then she's still a hot head that thinks she's right regardless of the whole picture. That equals not just a terrible person, but a complete failure as a leader.

But then again, at least the mages leadership is a council, no single person.

Modifié par Martyr1777, 06 février 2014 - 10:18 .

[thetinyevil]

Veruin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

She distrusted/hated all human nobility because of what happened to her as a child. You know the guy who kept her her as a slave and beat & raped until she killed him when her magic manifested.

There's a difference between being cautious around a type of people and straight up "F- you because you remind me of what I loathe." 

It is no different the Fenris. He pretty much did the same thing but with mages. He would work with them if he had to but he let them know he didn't like it.

[thetinyevil]

Martyr1777 wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

She distrusted/hated all human nobility because of what happened to her as a child. You know the guy who kept her her as a slave and beat & raped until she killed him when her magic manifested.

Yes... And as I said having that kind of anger and being that judgemental in assuming ALL human nobility are the same as the SINGLE individual with no other referance... well, thats not a good thing.

And like I said, it's not like Maric even act's or sounds like a noble. I mean if Fiona and Maric met in a similar fashion as Loghain met Maric then she wouldn't eve have any idea he was a noble, hence have no reason for such feelings. Then if she finds out he is a noble her personality would suddenly change?

She paints pictures she wants to see, whether real or imagined. So unless she's notably different from those earlier years. Which I didn't get that impression at all from Asunder. Then she's still a hot head that thinks she's right regardless of the whole picture. That equals not just a terrible person, but a complete failure as a leader.

But then again, at least the mages leadership is a council, no single person.

She did change her opinion of him or she wouldn't have had a kid with him. I thought she was painted rather well in Asunder. She was given a bull**** position and actally did something to change the mage's situation.

[thetinyevil]

Sir JK wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
No, but they can launch operations from remote areas to attack the shipping lanes, then retreat back into the woodwork. 

As I said, relationships between the Dalish and Orlais are strenuous at best right now, and since every group who can be at war seems to be in Inquisition, I wouldn't be surprised if these two reach a boiling point. Thus, better to have the mages on your side to help with Orlais rather thn face them on their own. In exchange, Dalish help mages with Templars. 

Perhaps. Personally I suspect that while they might camp in the wilds, I doubt it'll be in remote regions. But regardless, we should steer this back to Fiona... as interesting as this is.

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Regardless, I'm just trying to
spark actual conversation and speculation rather than the bashing that
has been happening most o this thread.

Yeah. Me too

LobselVith8 wrote...
Given a millennia of servitude and death, I perfectly understand why
Fiona refused to condone the status quo of the Chantry controlled
Circles, and sought to bring about autonomy for the Circles of Magi. I
understand that not everyone shares my opinion of Fiona or the Chantry
controlled Circles, but I'm simply sharing why thoughts on the matter.

Why she did it is fairly obvious though. I may not share hers and your picture of how bad the circles actually are (they're bad too often mind, even in the best cases) but I perfectly understand how it motivated her.

The interesting question is what kind of a person she is besides that motivation. How dirty hands is she prepared to get? How prepared is she to stand up to people like Adrian (who has clearly demonstrated she's willing to go far)? Will she think theoretical freedom is more important than practical freedom?

Will she manage to lead the mages when the loss of the circle's resources start to make it's presence truly felt?

She was a Gray Warden and they do whatever it takes to win. So I'm guessing she is ready to get her hands as dirty as she needs to and will work with anyone that will achive their goals even someone like Adrian.

[Lulupab]

Martyr1777 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

Has anyone stated that they are a fan of Fiona yet?

I like Fiona. I'm not certain how my protagonist will react to Fiona (especially if she's a leader in the mage rebellion) since I'm aiming for a Dalish Inquisitor, but as a fan of Dragon Age, I respect the character and her aspiration to liberate her people from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars. “I came to the Circle from the Grey Wardens because I saw something had to be done. In the Wardens, we learn to watch for our moment and seize it - and that moment is now.”

The mentality is understandable... the personality that shows in the writing? Yeah, she's an annoying hot headed judgemental b*. I mean She knew nothing about Maric, he wasn't like some Chantry lapdog or Templar lover but for whatever reason she despises him for simply being King. It's one thing to dislike Nobles that hold ot over the head of other classes but Maric obviously never did that and yet she still hated him.

So either bad writing (Sorry DG lol) or just a bad person. When you have that much pent up anger and are so judgemental you fling it around without understanding situations... well if she's leading the Mages they aren't going to win.

If anyone has right to be judgemental about nobles its Fiona. She was literally born as slave, sold and sexually and physically abused when she was 7 or something. It was so brutal that when she killed her abuser, the count, with magic count's wife who became a widow thought good riddence and instead of calling the city guards they contacted the cricle and she was never pursued for the murder. 

During her time with Grey Wardens she has proven her strategy and magical ability. Duncan has admitted that without her their group would have died so many times. She has oblitirated intelligent brood mothers, I don't see why she can't lead the mages. 

Its safe to assume she now no longer has the old grudge against nobles as she had an intimate relationship with maric.

Modifié par Rassler, 06 février 2014 - 10:30 .

[LobselVith8]

Veruin wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

She distrusted/hated all human nobility because of what happened to her as a child. You know the guy who kept her her as a slave and beat & raped until she killed him when her magic manifested. 

There's a difference between being cautious around a type of people and straight up "F- you because you remind me of what I loathe." 

So we're vilifying Fiona because she distrusted human nobles, after being repeatedly raped, abused, tortured, and dehumanized for years by one?

[Martyr1777]

thetinyevil wrote...

Martyr1777 wrote...

thetinyevil wrote...

She distrusted/hated all human nobility because of what happened to her as a child. You know the guy who kept her her as a slave and beat & raped until she killed him when her magic manifested.

Yes... And as I said having that kind of anger and being that judgemental in assuming ALL human nobility are the same as the SINGLE individual with no other referance... well, thats not a good thing.

And like I said, it's not like Maric even act's or sounds like a noble. I mean if Fiona and Maric met in a similar fashion as Loghain met Maric then she wouldn't eve have any idea he was a noble, hence have no reason for such feelings. Then if she finds out he is a noble her personality would suddenly change?

She paints pictures she wants to see, whether real or imagined. So unless she's notably different from those earlier years. Which I didn't get that impression at all from Asunder. Then she's still a hot head that thinks she's right regardless of the whole picture. That equals not just a terrible person, but a complete failure as a leader.

But then again, at least the mages leadership is a council, no single person.

She did change her opinion of him or she wouldn't have had a kid with him. I thought she was painted rather well in Asunder. She was given a bull**** position and actally did something to change the mage's situation.

She changed her opinion of him after being forced through a very extreme experience with him and Maric earning all their respect in a fight.

Lets look at it this way, human noble families have mages to. How is Fiona going to treat them? Mages that have gathered with the rest of them and haven't had a chance to earn that respect in a difficult situation? What about interacting with the nobility on behalf of the mages. They can't exist in their own little universe, they will need to interact with other groups, either seeking aid for the war or simply not pissing off nobles as they travel through their lands.

If it can be shown that Fiona is no longer as judgemental without seeing the whole picture then I would say she has passion that many other pages lack. But everything I've seen from her is anger, not passion. Aidan is like the exact same, they don't think or consider things, just do what they think they should.

Personally, I would never follow a leader like that, why do you think they wanted/needed Rhys (?) to join their faction, they need someone with a more controled moderate personality because noone trusts the hot heads. If Fiona wasn't still the same then she would easily gain all the followeres they could possibly want on their side.