1033 réponses à ce sujet

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

Fiona is most definitely not an author favorite. She is hardly the best "freedom fighter" either.

She does seem to have a case of Mary sueitis developing though.

[Hellion Rex]

leaguer of one wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Rassler wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

No thanks, I am not anti-mage.

Your posts suggest otherwise.

They only say otherwise because they don't line up with your standards.

No,Rassler is right. If you read JB's comments on mages before you'll know he is really anti mage.

He's not anti-mage. He's just a rather conservative pro-Circle. You want anti-mage, Lotion Soronnar is a little bit more of what you are looking for.

[Rawgrim]

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...


That's counters you're point. Being that fear and hate is the problem and the current templars, who are working of of that, ae just making things worse.

Ha humans didn't menage to achieve that simple it always will be in case even in our times it is common and yet
differences are not so big and in mages case they are because they are dangerous and always will... 
So good luck with that as i said

Except mages don't turn into abomination at a drop of a hat and a  spoiled noble can decimate a country with no magic at all.

Mages don`t turn into abomination at a drop of a hat? Didn`t play DA2 did you?

[leaguer of one]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
The problem was not that they were on a leash. It's templars started tackling them, pinning them down, putting  tight rope around their necks and dragging them in cages by the ropes because they the mages may bite. And then when the mages stated complaining about it the Templars just made the road tughter.

Simple system didn't worked templars did bad that they tried control mages what is impossible and thanks to that we had so many magical incydents and mess that we have now. And yes leash always will be problem because mages will want normal lifes and thats normal that they want such thing but they can't because they are mages doesn't mean that they care and won't follow toward it uldred rebelion is best example.

Impossible? It only when bad because the templars start not doing their jobs correctly and being inflexible to the rights of mages. Sorry, it all feel apart because Templars lIke Meredith were put in charge.

Changes nothing either templars will be in charge (thing are as they were before) or mages (new tevinter) .And lets face it meredith was right about mages even if she was fanatical bi*** and that was reason why she was such bi*** .

Or Mages and Templars work together to police mages. Instead of having nothing but Templar guiards, have mage guards as well. Train mages and templars together. Have mages and templars go out and bring new mages together. Have Mages and Templars hunt blood mages.

You know...Working together...

[The Elder King]

Veruin wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
No,Rassler is right. If you read JB's comments on mages before you'll know he is really anti mage.

TKS is anti-mage.  MisterJB is not.

Agreed.

[Veruin]

Rawgrim wrote...

Mages don`t turn into abomination at a drop of a hat? Didn`t play DA2 did you?

Don't blame them if they want to pretend DA2 never happened. 
Really don't.  So many plot holes, it's just not worth it.

Modifié par Veruin, 02 février 2014 - 09:21 .

[Hellion Rex]

Veruin wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
No,Rassler is right. If you read JB's comments on mages before you'll know he is really anti mage.

TKS is anti-mage.  MisterJB is not.

Well, TKS is pretty much anti-everything, to be fair.

[TheKomandorShepard]

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...


That's counters you're point. Being that fear and hate is the problem and the current templars, who are working of of that, ae just making things worse.

Ha humans didn't menage to achieve that simple it always will be in case even in our times it is common and yet
differences are not so big and in mages case they are because they are dangerous and always will... 
So good luck with that as i said

Except mages don't turn into abomination at a drop of a hat and a  spoiled noble can decimate a country with no magic at all.

No? i thought it was most mages goal so eagerly pursued it;) i would rather guess if he was spoiled he would ended with knife in his head when sleeping instead making damage

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Veruin wrote...

Rassler wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

No thanks, I am not anti-mage.

Your posts suggest otherwise.

They only say otherwise because they don't line up with your standards.

No,Rassler is right. If you read JB's comments on mages before you'll know he is really anti mage.

He's not anti-mage. He's just a rather conservative pro-Circle. You want anti-mage, Lotion Soronnar is a little bit more of what you are looking for.

Meh.  I've read a great many of JB's posts and I concur that it's kind of odd for him to be claiming to not be anti-mage now.  He's been one of the biggest proponents of "OMG MAGES WILL ONLY EVER BE TEVINTER BECAUSE THAT'S JUST WHAT MAGES DOOOOOOO" for pretty much ever.  He's hardly "just rather conservative pro-Circle." 

[Veruin]

eluvianix wrote...

Well, TKS is pretty much anti-everything, to be fair.

I don't see how that diminishes my point though. 

[leaguer of one]

Rawgrim wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...


That's counters you're point. Being that fear and hate is the problem and the current templars, who are working of of that, ae just making things worse.

Ha humans didn't menage to achieve that simple it always will be in case even in our times it is common and yet
differences are not so big and in mages case they are because they are dangerous and always will... 
So good luck with that as i said

Except mages don't turn into abomination at a drop of a hat and a  spoiled noble can decimate a country with no magic at all.

Mages don`t turn into abomination at a drop of a hat? Didn`t play DA2 did you?

I did, and being stressed and near a veil tear ups the chances and Kirkwall is a big veil tear with lots of super stressed mages because of the horrible job the templars were doing.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 02 février 2014 - 09:25 .

[Lulupab]

eluvianix wrote...

Rassler wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
What's the better version of Morgoth? Sauron? Not much of an improvement.

Lol the fact that you compare Fiona to those says a lot, too much in fact. You see improvement of mage lives as an evil thing which its not. Fiona is best freedom fighter written by Bioware yet, she is like author's favorite and for good reason. You can have your opinion of course but it doesn't change the fact that Fiona is not evil not even a little bit.

Fiona is most definitely not an author favorite. She is hardly the best "freedom fighter" either.

Why do you think she is not? She certainly receives the better end of things. If not her, who do you think it is from Asunder? Also again I meant that as a comparison, if not her then who? 

As a completely free mage, even free of taint she returns to the cricle, a place that she hates most in the world. She begged the grey wardens to take her from there, risked her life with the joinging and fought brood mothers, largely due to reason she did not wanted to be in the circle. In her journery she made friends which made her life more bearable. She only returns to circle to free other mages and she is one of the few elves who does not hate humans. She becomes Grand Enchanter in a very short time, successfuly incites a rebellion, with help of course but the credit of all immoral things done to achieve the rebellion goes to others not Fiona leaving her a complete moral character who wants nothing but to improve the life of likes of her.

The fact that the blame of negative things done is not laid at her feet is a clear sign of author's favorite. I also made the freedom fighter as a comparison. No other freedom fighter is written better than Fiona.

[leaguer of one]

Veruin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Well, TKS is pretty much anti-everything, to be fair.

I don't see how that diminishes my point though. 

A man who says he want to do everything mages killes did in Witcher 2 to mages in DA is some how not anti mages. He's also anti elves as well....So that 2 main da character that would hate him.

[Rawgrim]

leaguer of one wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...


That's counters you're point. Being that fear and hate is the problem and the current templars, who are working of of that, ae just making things worse.

Ha humans didn't menage to achieve that simple it always will be in case even in our times it is common and yet
differences are not so big and in mages case they are because they are dangerous and always will... 
So good luck with that as i said

Except mages don't turn into abomination at a drop of a hat and a  spoiled noble can decimate a country with no magic at all.

Mages don`t turn into abomination at a drop of a hat? Didn`t play DA2 did you?

I did, and being stressed and ver a veil tear ups the chances and Kirkwall is a big veil tear with lots of super stressed mages because of the horrible job the templars were doing.

So it is ok to turn to blood magic and kill hundreds of people, if you are stressed out. Gottcha. Was Uldren, in DA:O, stressed out too?

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...
Meh.  I've read a great many of JB's posts and I concur that it's kind of odd for him to be claiming to not be anti-mage now.  He's been one of the biggest proponents of "OMG MAGES WILL ONLY EVER BE TEVINTER BECAUSE THAT'S JUST WHAT MAGES DOOOOOOO" for pretty much ever.  He's hardly "just rather conservative pro-Circle." 

I think there are different shades of "pro-Circle", with you and I being on the other end of the spectrum from JB. That being said, I don't think he is anti-mage.

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

Veruin wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
No,Rassler is right. If you read JB's comments on mages before you'll know he is really anti mage.

TKS is anti-mage.  MisterJB is not.

Well, TKS is pretty much anti-everything, to be fair.

Lies!!!I demand satisfaction

I have nothing against humans, elves ,dwarves ,ferelden , nevarra ,grey wardens as long they don't get on my way at least im eternal supporter of my own side and it is wiining side.

[leaguer of one]

Rawgrim wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...


That's counters you're point. Being that fear and hate is the problem and the current templars, who are working of of that, ae just making things worse.

Ha humans didn't menage to achieve that simple it always will be in case even in our times it is common and yet
differences are not so big and in mages case they are because they are dangerous and always will... 
So good luck with that as i said

Except mages don't turn into abomination at a drop of a hat and a  spoiled noble can decimate a country with no magic at all.

Mages don`t turn into abomination at a drop of a hat? Didn`t play DA2 did you?

I did, and being stressed and ver a veil tear ups the chances and Kirkwall is a big veil tear with lots of super stressed mages because of the horrible job the templars were doing.

So it is ok to turn to blood magic and kill hundreds of people, if you are stressed out. Gottcha. Was Uldren, in DA:O, stressed out too?

Never said that. As I said before I'm pro circle.  All I said was the mages need to have more freedoms and work with templars to polic them selves. I need a counter in place for how many time I say mages and templars must work together. And the stress part is becase the templars who are not doing their jobs correctly are stressing the mages.

[Silfren]

Rassler wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Rassler wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
What's the better version of Morgoth? Sauron? Not much of an improvement.

Lol the fact that you compare Fiona to those says a lot, too much in fact. You see improvement of mage lives as an evil thing which its not. Fiona is best freedom fighter written by Bioware yet, she is like author's favorite and for good reason. You can have your opinion of course but it doesn't change the fact that Fiona is not evil not even a little bit.

Fiona is most definitely not an author favorite. She is hardly the best "freedom fighter" either.

Why do you think she is not? She certainly receives the better end of things. If not her, who do you think it is from Asunder? Also again I meant that as a comparison, if not her then who? 

As a completely free mage, even free of taint she returns to the cricle, a place that she hates most in the world. She begged the grey wardens to take her from there, risked her life with the joinging and fought brood mothers, largely due to reason she did not wanted to be in the circle. In her journery she made friends which made her life more bearable. She only returns to circle to free other mages and she is one of the few elves who does not hate humans. She becomes Grand Enchanter in a very short time, successfuly incites a rebellion, with help of course but the credit of all immoral things done to achieve the rebellion goes to others not Fiona leaving her a complete moral character who wants nothing but to improve the life of likes of her.

The fact that the blame of negative things done is not laid at her feet is a clear sign of author's favorite. I also made the freedom fighter as a comparison. No other freedom fighter is written better than Fiona.

You're being kind of ridiculous.  Not being an evil or even a morally grey character =/= author favorite.

[The Elder King]

@Rassler: what do you mean that no freedom fighter is written better than Fiona? Are you talking in general?

[TheKomandorShepard]

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
The problem was not that they were on a leash. It's templars started tackling them, pinning them down, putting  tight rope around their necks and dragging them in cages by the ropes because they the mages may bite. And then when the mages stated complaining about it the Templars just made the road tughter.

Simple system didn't worked templars did bad that they tried control mages what is impossible and thanks to that we had so many magical incydents and mess that we have now. And yes leash always will be problem because mages will want normal lifes and thats normal that they want such thing but they can't because they are mages doesn't mean that they care and won't follow toward it uldred rebelion is best example.

Impossible? It only when bad because the templars start not doing their jobs correctly and being inflexible to the rights of mages. Sorry, it all feel apart because Templars lIke Meredith were put in charge.

Changes nothing either templars will be in charge (thing are as they were before) or mages (new tevinter) .And lets face it meredith was right about mages even if she was fanatical bi*** and that was reason why she was such bi*** .

Or Mages and Templars work together to police mages. Instead of having nothing but Templar guiards, have mage guards as well. Train mages and templars together. Have mages and templars go out and bring new mages together. Have Mages and Templars hunt blood mages.

You know...Working together...

Pretty much sure mages will love bring other mages and templars will love work with peoples they should control... eh that naivety let you see world in so many rainbow colors

[Veruin]

I would say Alistair is more of an author favourite than Fiona.

[MisterJB]

[quote]Rassler wrote...
I said Templars will be a door away not a mile and patrolling the cricle but they have absolutely no say in how the cricle works. Its like a government that chooses its ways but its police is independant.[/quote]
The police can only act based upon what the government decides is a crime or not and you just determined that mages rule themselves which means that only mages can determine if, for instance, summoning demons with the blood of the innocents is a crime or not. That is pure mage freedom because only mages can determine the restrictions imposed upon them.

Plus, it's entirely ineffective for the reasons I have already stated. mages are dangerous beyond the threat of demons.

[quote]

She wished separation. Had the Templars and Seekers accepted it there would have been no war.[/quote]
Right, so if I suddenly decide my home is an independent state and buy a tank to defend its borders, it is somehow the police's fault for arresting me.
The citizens can't just up and decide they are no longer part of the "country". She knew full well that what she suggested would lead to a war. She just didn't care.
 
[quote]She is like 50% responsible for the war.[/quote]
 Which still makes her actions quite immoral.


[quote]
Lol the fact that you compare Fiona to those says a lot, too much in fact.[/quote]
 
See my previous post.

[quote]
You see improvement of mage lives as an evil thing which its not.[/quote]
It is when it is done at the expense of the rest of the world.

[quote]Fiona is best freedom fighter written by Bioware yet,[/quote]
 I will NOT have you insult Bioware's writers in that manner. Apologize to David Gaider now!

[quote]ahe is like author's favorite[/quote]
 No, she is your favorite. Don't put words into other people's mouths.

[quote]You can have your opinion of course but it doesn't change the fact that Fiona is not evil not even a little bit.[/quote]
Good and evil are subjective to begin with and now you want to factually state who is good and who is evil.
Ask the people who die in this war whether they consider Fiona evil or not.

[quote]
As I said before Lambert, Templars and Seekers are as responsible for the war as Fiona and the mages.[/quote]
Which doesn't change the fact she is also responsible for the WAR!
She's not a saint who has never done a thing wrong in her life.

[quote]When a seeker angers the divine in treatment of mages you know something is wrong.[/quote]
With the Divine.

[quote]
Your posts suggest otherwise.
[/quote]
To you.

[quote]
Fiona is NOT self-righteous. You cannot shove this as fact, you simply can't.[/quote]
Sure I can. To be self-righteous is to be of one's own righteousness.
Fiona says she is not willing to wait for the Divine to do what is "right". Therefore, she is self-righteous.
 
[quote]The biggest mage fraternities agree with her that is 70% of mages. She is not Anders, she is representing what all mages want, not what she wants. 
[/quote]
The warmongers won by a vote. 49 out of 100 mages didn't  want this war. She is not representing what they want.
And that has nothing to with being self-righteous.

[Lulupab]

Silfren wrote...

You're being kind of ridiculous.  Not being an evil or even a morally grey character =/= author favorite.

You are missing the point. What she did was imposible to do without being at least gray but magically all gray/evil things are done by other characters like Adrian leaving her a moral character.  Most definitely Author's favorite signs.

[Lulupab]

hhh89 wrote...

@Rassler: what do you mean that no freedom fighter is written better than Fiona? Are you talking in general?

I meant in general comparison to other Bioware characters written to fight for freedom. 

[The Elder King]

@Rassler: she did nothing. The actions that lead to conflict was made by Adrian (and Lambert). The mages were rescued by Wynne, Evangeline and Leliana, with a fundamental role to the Divine. Rhys is the one who decided the vote. The separation of the mages has little to with Fiona.

Modifié par hhh89, 02 février 2014 - 09:35 .