449 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

eluvianix wrote...

Make me choose between Loghain and Alistair, and I would pick Alistair every time, without skipping a beat.

When choosing which one to execute, right?

... right?

[Silfren]

Filament wrote...

I love despicable, puppy kicking traitors like Loghain tbh.

What's funny is that I think Loghain would probably draw the line at kicking puppies.

[Hellion Rex]

Dave of Canada wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Make me choose between Loghain and Alistair, and I would pick Alistair every time, without skipping a beat.

When choosing which one to execute, right?

... right?

....

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

Filament wrote...

I love despicable, puppy kicking traitors like Loghain tbh.

What's funny is that I think Loghain would probably draw the line at kicking puppies.

But not at selling people into slavery to Tevinter.
<_<

[TEWR]

Silfren wrote...

Filament wrote...

I love despicable, puppy kicking traitors like Loghain tbh.

What's funny is that I think Loghain would probably draw the line at kicking puppies.

yup! It'd be very Orlesian of him to do so, given his backstory with his Mabari (which is VERY symbolic).

eluvianix wrote...

But not at selling people into slavery to Tevinter.
[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Puppies are cuter then most Elves.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 février 2014 - 08:35 .

[draken-heart]

Filament wrote...

The Elves were Denerim's puppies. Disagree = you hate Merrill.

:wub:Merrill:wub: is Dalish, and apart from her, none of the elves are cute.

Modifié par draken-heart, 09 février 2014 - 12:15 .

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Filament wrote...

I love despicable, puppy kicking traitors like Loghain tbh.

What's funny is that I think Loghain would probably draw the line at kicking puppies.

But not at selling people into slavery to Tevinter.
<_<

Hey, I never said the man didn't have his priorities skewed.

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I still do not think I could forgive his actions.

You don't have to. Letting him live doesn't equate itself to forgiveness. He doesn't forgive himself if you do so, why should you? Think of it as making the most out of him and giving him the harsher punishment.

"It's easy to die for your cause. Some men do it without even knowing. It's so much harder to live with your actions and the weight of them" -- rough paraphrase of something Loghain says.

Your post is something a lot of anti-Loghain people say to his fans. They believe that if you let him live, you're condoning his actions and whatnot (though they use MUCH more volatile language, often to the point of insults). That's not always the case.

But putting him up against Alistair is where I draw the line. Understand where I am coming from here. Alistair may be have been too driven by revenge, that's not in question. That being said, Alistair had been my greatest friend in the game. However, he had been wronged more than me in regards to Loghain, so I let him make the choice. Make me choose between Loghain and Alistair, and I would pick Alistair every time, without skipping a beat.

That's understandable and perfectly legitimate. I don't know your personal choices you made up to that point. Did you spare the Anvil, did you not? Did you kill Marjolaine or let  her go? Did you tell Alistair that everyone is out for themselves after meeting Goldanna and the meeting didn't go the way he expected, or do you let him allow other people to make his choices for him? Did you allow the elves to be killed by the werewolves or did you kill Witherfang and take the heart for Zathrian?

There are so many issues going on here that it's near impossible to tell if you had a happy and good feeling playthrough with Alistair in your party or made some morally ambiguous choices leading up to the Landsmeet, but I also think Alistair himself has a skewed idea of the Wardens himself. He calls joining the order an honor, but Duncan was conscripted because the person who conscripted him hoped he'd die in the Joining, and treated his joining the wardens as a punishment, and before that he was a thief and a murderer. A criminal, possibly like Daveth. 

I get liking Alistair. I really do. He is a really good friend and doing something out of friendship is not a bad thing, especially since Loghain does a lot of bad things between Ostagar and the landsmeet. But Alistiar is overly idealisitc about the Wardens as well as the fact that he's projecting his grief with his survivor's guilt so much that it affects him being a Warden. I mean, choosing to leave the Wardens when you're so close to uniting Ferelden and to take on the Blight simply because you don't like the guy getting conscripted is a bit far. Especially when he does it in such a childish manner and pretty much say he'll be king JUST to get Loghain executed. 

That kind of pettyness is NEVER a good thing in rulers, no matter how good a friend they are. 

Modifié par dragonflight288, 09 février 2014 - 03:11 .

[Billy-the-Squid]

Dobbysaurus wrote...

According to this commercial, they have to be Brits and drive Jaguars.

www.youtube.com/watch

I'm not bad though! Most of the time

[Melra]

You have to be him or Joker

[The Hierophant]

Some ham and cheese.

[acid_rain82]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

themikefest wrote...

Maiden Crowe wrote...

Ok lets say you were offered a large sum of money by a prominent Orlesian noble family to rescue their daughter from a Red Templar prison camp, the fate of any other hostages is to be left to your discretion. You sneak in under the cover of darkness and once you find the girl you see that her friend has been wounded is unable to move and she refuses to leave his side while he still draws breath and she believes that he can still be saved, you being the practical person that you are realise that sneaking out of the prison camp with the wounded man and the girl will not be easy and could very well cost you the mission, but then you also remember that the reward is for the girl alone and all other hostages are expendable, what do you do?

I would knock her out leaving her friend to die or I would just kill him. Before handing her back to her family I would demand a larger reward otherwise  l kill her.

Damn, that is smart. I wish I thought of that.

Slaughter the red Templars and walk them out the front door.

Modifié par acid_rain82, 15 février 2014 - 05:53 .

[karushna5]

I like villains that are charismatic, have a connection to the character, and tragic if possible, I find tragic villains much more compelling than tragic heroes. Like Anders, if he went more into his bond with Justice, and at the end, Vengeance literally consumed him after a battle between them, and then destroyed the Chantry, he would have been a tragic villain.

I I really love the waterworks when it comes to villains. Not the usual stuff, like I was doing it for X and am not evil. I mean, Greek tragedy materiel. And I don't mean they are even like able afterwards, but I feel for a truly heinous villain, you need to see the path of good intentions that made them what they are. But I only feel that way with absolute evil characters. I prefer the breaking point more than kick the dog moments.

[agonis]

I like villians who I can relate to but don´t agree with.

Grand Admiral Thrawn was a pretty good villian.

[TransientNomad]

Depends largely on the plot. But I find the best villains are the ones that can not only challenge the hero, but defeat them either physically and/or philosophically through the course of the story. Also villains that can pick themselves up after defeat as well. What drives them is a singular purpose, and are completely unrepentant about it. In video games, villains like Jon Irenicus/Bhaal of Baldur's Gate 2, Handsome Jack of Borderlands 2, and Doskias of Septerra Core come to mind. 

On the other hand, villains that want to end the world just for the sake of it should be avoided.

Modifié par TransientNomad, 15 février 2014 - 08:11 .

[meganbytes]

a villain that is human (or you know - elf, quinari, dwarf what have you). like they're not just someone doing horrible things for no reason (unless that really was their character). they're not one dimensioned. kinda just like any other character, but twisted by something. when they're almost kind of crazy and funny but deep and conflicted. 

[Savber100]

 

Anyone who is similar to this wonderful man would get an A+ on my villain requirements. 

 

Brilliant, charming, pragmatic, and sometimes even sympathetic.

[InvincibleHero]

I think a great villain has to have some motivation that is understandable and be well integrated into the story as that is key. I think evil ones work the best because if you sympathize with them are they really a villain? Joker is a villain being a murderous psychopath. The lizard maybe but Curt Connors is a sympathetic victim of circumstance. Beating him and sending him to jail might make you feel rotten since he has no cotnrol in lizard form whereas the clean victory over the miscreant makes people feel good.

[karushna5]

*snipped to avoid spaming thread*
 
Anyone who is similar to this wonderful man would get an A+ on my villain requirements. 
 
Brilliant, charming, pragmatic, and sometimes even sympathetic.

Ah Xanatos evil? Yes..., but he always had a charming side too, and a heroic one as well, he was rarely downright murderous. Most of my friends labeled him as an anti-villain as the opposite of the Anti-hero. Instead of a good guy willing to do bad things, he was a bad guy who did good things.

A very good villain. I liked him a lot.

[TEWR]

 

Anyone who is similar to this wonderful man would get an A+ on my villain requirements. 

 

Brilliant, charming, pragmatic, and sometimes even sympathetic.

 

+1. David Xanatos is basically one of the hallmarks of what makes a great antagonist.

[Hellion Rex]

Xanatos was a terrible villain, as was Loghain.

[TEWR]

David Xanatos was one of the best antagonists ever created, where even when he loses... he wins. Or if things went wrong, he adjusted his plans so that they benefited him.

 

He was sympathetic, pragmatic, intelligent, suave, sophisticated, and just plain badass.