449 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

A great villain won't turn into a giant snake. It doesn't help.

 

A snake am I? Perhaps you'd like to see how snakelike I can be!

 

Ah good ol' EO list.

[Black Jimmy]

Depends on the villain and/or the story being told.

Take Xykon from Order of the Stick for example.

He's massive barstard, but he he's just so funny when he does it.

Then there's Redcloak who's a ruthless warlord, but does what he does to give the Goblin people a better place in the world as apposed to fodder for first level adventurers.

Both great villains, but both different.

[Pierce Miller]

I love storylines in which the player themselves becomes even greater and more evil than the villain. Jade Empire being the best example I can think of.

[Jazzpha]

To me, a great villain is one that can fundamentally challenge the perspective of the protagonist in a deep, crucial way. Something that puts the hero/ine through an emotional trial-by-fire as much as a physical one. It's one thing to be physically strong, but it's a whole different matter entirely to have your worldview challenged, or your loved ones stripped away, or even have the very purpose you're fighting called into question-- and then still be able to get up and keep on going.

 

That's a true test of will to me, and without something like that an antagonist is just a somewhat-stronger version of all the other grunts the hero has punched in the face up until that moment.

[Pierce Miller]

One of my favourite things about Loghain as a villain was that at the end of the game you realised that he wasn't evil at all, he was a pragmatist with severe paranoia. If you let him live you even get to see things from his point of view, ask him questions about the things he had done and everything in the game made more sense because of it.

[addiction21]

Watch this whole documentary by DC

 

 

 

Its nice but what was your point? Its a BioWare game so the protagonist is not going to be a established character like Batman, superman, or the rest.

[Pierce Miller]

addiction21, on 28 Jul 2014 - 10:36 PM, said:

Its nice but what was your point? Its a BioWare game so the protagonist is not going to be a established character like Batman, superman, or the rest.

I actually get a strange superhero vibe from the Inquisitor, what with his special green lantern powers

[addiction21]

I'm assuming you haven't watched it. It's not about Superman, Batman, ect. It's about the psychology behind villains/antagonists. I know because I watched it. 

 

I did watch it and its explicit in speaking to the villains being a type of opposite to those long standing characters I know that because I watched it. I had seen it before.

 

But being the "opposite" cant apply here since the player will be able will be able to shape the Inquisitor. How can the villain be a opposite to a hero that has not been shaped and can be shaped in different ways in playthrus?

[Swoopdogg]

Well it depends what kind of Villain you're looking for.

 

If you want to go the pure evil route, then the villain really does need to be pure freaking evil. They need to be an evil that you can't even fathom. Someone so bad that you're positive they aren't human (and many times they really aren't human). But not the cartoonish maniacal laughter evil, no. It needs to be scary, in a cold, empty sort of way. Like Sauron, the Darkspawn, or the White Walkers. Despite the fact that this villain is pure evil, he/she/it still needs backstory, but it needs to be backstory that chills you to the bone and makes their evil all the scarier. Fallen angel? Dark wizard mad with power? Sure. Just don't give him three prequels and call him Annie

 

If you don't go the pure evil route, then you'll probably want an understandable kind of evil, or maybe someone who really isn't evil at all. Give them backstory that explains why they are now a villain. This would be your terrorist or your mad scientist. I'm guessing the villain in DA:I will fall under this category, assuming he/she is a mage. Other examples of understandable evil: Harvey Dent (Two-face), Denethor, any game of thrones villain (other than the white walkers), The Illusive Man, Loghain Mac Tir, etc. Gotta be careful with this one, as a lot of bad cliches can come into play here. (Like OP said, "I had good intentions all along!")

 

Those are the two main types of villains, in their most basic form.

 

Now, what I find to be the best villain (in my opinion) is not only someone who is understandable, but who is relatable. Someone who has done something that we as the audience/reader also have the capacity to do. Someone who has motives not unlike our own. Someone who has morals and values not unlike our own. Someone who was born a baby, had a childhood, and grew up to be the villain they are today. Someone who could have very well been a reflection in your mirror if things had turned out differently.

 

In short, the best kind of villain is the villain who is most similar to us

[LaughingWolf]

I personally love villians like Vaas from FarCry 3. But I think the best villains are ones that just seem like people with a different ideology and goal; such as The Illusive Man from Mass Effect, and The Enclave from Fallout 3. Alternatively, good ol' fashioned fairy tale villians like Moriarty from Sherlock are good too!

[Urazz]

I think almost all of the good villains are ones we can understand to some degree.  It really depends on the story being told.

 

In DAO, Loghain was a good villain in a story where a lot of the choices are morally ambiguous.  We can understand his motives and reasoning but see that his big flaw (his paranoia about Orlais) was what is going to cause the downfall of Fereldan.

 

Another example is the Joker in the Batman series.  We can't even really relate to him at all really or even understand him because he is completely insane but we do know that some unknown event caused him to become the way he is but it's not important to know because of what he is and what role he does serve as.

[Pierce Miller]

Urazz, on 28 Jul 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

I think almost all of the good villains are ones we can understand to some degree.  It really depends on the story being told.

 

In DAO, Loghain was a good villain in a story where a lot of the choices are morally ambiguous.  We can understand his motives and reasoning but see that his big flaw (his paranoia about Orlais) was what is going to cause the downfall of Fereldan.

 

Another example is the Joker in the Batman series.  We can't even really relate to him at all really or even understand him because he is completely insane but we do know that some unknown event caused him to become the way he is but it's not important to know because of what he is and what role he does serve as.

agreed, sentient villains with some form of understandable logic and personality make better villains because you want to hate them but at the same time you ultimately can't.

[efd731]

I disagree with Loghain being a good villain.
He served the role of antagonist well enough, but ultimately as a villain wasn't that spectacular. Simply because if you didn't recruit him, you learned nothing, if you didn't buy the DLC you learned nothing, and if you didn't read the DA novels, you learned nothing. He was an interesting character whose characterization was almost completely left out of the game.

Edit: I want a Walter white like character soooooo bad.

[Chernaya]

What makes a great villain, that's a really neat question. To me, a good villain would need to strike strong emotions in me from their personality and actions, like any good character. The difference is that when it comes to villains, if I end up loathing, despising, fearing, or even in some cases feeling sorry for  them (or a combination of those things), I know they have served their purpose and ruffled my feathers, as someone who always plays the good guy. If I just laugh at them or find them forgettable... well, I wouldn't consider them a good villain. 

[efd731]

Overrated.

How so? (To explain) I want a character who was good/neutral and then through trying to do something good does something bad has success and validation and then embraces bad. A conversion that we can follow or understand so to speak, as opposed to X is bad, so I'm good or I'm ending the world because I feel like it. I'm also not even talking about the big bad, even just a secondary antagonist would be great (to me)
Edit: also, thoughts on Loghain?

[Northern Sun]

A great villain is someone who makes you hesitate and wonder "Are they actually right?".

[animedreamer]

The one who knocks..

[Helios969]

Are we arguing semantics again...Or are people being too literal? Villain, antagonist, nemesis comes down to our individual perceptions. The way I see it Lohgain was the antagonist, Howe was my nemesis (human noble,) and the Arc Demon was the villian in DAO.

What makes a good one of any of these is the ability to illicit a negative emotional response...fear, anger, frustration, hate... ME3s Kai Leng is a good example of a bad enemy, other than being a mild annoyance in the way a lone mosquito annoys I found him to be more cartoon character, silly and unbelievable.

[ForgottenWarrior]

Someone you can respect. The Illusive Men from ME2 (not from ME3, very important!) had his ideals and he truly believed in them.

Another example is Mr. House from Fallout New Vegas. He reminds me Al Capone. Mastermind and criminal genius.

Also Khan from Star Trek. He is willing to destroy the entire worlds for his own crew.

[Gervaise]

I like intelligent villains and part of that intelligence is not letting the world as a whole see how evil you can be.   Back in Baldurs Gate I liked Saravok as a villain because he had basically charmed his way into people trusting him.   Yes, away from the public eye he was ruthless and he kept trying to kill your PC, but the majority of people thought he was wonderful.    He even managed to have two women willing to die for him, one of whom seemed convinced he was not totally bad and worth saving.   What was even better was that by the end of ToB you could even convince him to change his outlook on life, but that seemed to make him more scary to outsiders rather than less.

 

The Illusive Man was also an interesting villain because, in ME2 at least, you could have an intelligent conversation with him and depending how you played your Shepard, you might even agree with him.    

 

Loghain was also a good antagonist and if they had included Return to Ostagar as part of the original game, rather than a DLC, then I think that made him an even more a villain you could sympathise with.    The archdemon never seemed like a villain because it was simply a creature driven mad by the taint that needed removing in order to stop the Blight.     The same held true of darkspawn generally until Awakenings.   Intelligent darkspawn make much more interesting enemies.