449 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

J. Reezy wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Villain I have found has a strong association with "Wow, much bad. So evil. Very enemy". I prefer... antagonist. And to me what makes a great antagonist is intellect, charm, wit, power, guile, and/or a heaping of other traits mixed together with one more thing: a reason why they're opposing you that you can understand, sympathize with, and perhaps even agree upon.

Like Vayne Solidor. Or Organization XIII.

Saw that coming.

Is he wrong tho? lol

[TEWR]

AresKeith wrote...

Is he wrong tho? lol

I'm never wrong.

Also, Metal Gear series has some great villains. Can't believe I forgot to mention that! Your avatar reminded me of how hyped I am for MGSV.

J. Reezy wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Villain
I have found has a strong association with "Wow, much bad. So evil.
Very enemy". I prefer... antagonist. And to me what makes a great
antagonist is intellect, charm, wit, power, guile, and/or a heaping of
other traits mixed together with one more thing: a reason why they're
opposing you that you can understand, sympathize with, and perhaps even
agree upon.

Like Vayne Solidor. Or Organization XIII.

Saw that coming.

What can I say? I love the Organization. They've got more depth to them then meets the norted eye.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 février 2014 - 06:58 .

[Iron Fist]

A great villain has tons of mooks for the hero to kill.

[TeamLexana]

I know villians who think they are the hero of their own story are awesome and all but sometimes having a total jerkbag with charisma that you can't wait to pummel is a good villian too. Borderlands 2 had a great one with Handsome Jack. God, that guy was a dick! But he was entertaining! AND we got to kick his teeth in at the end, so it was satisfying.

Bad example of that kind of villain I'd say are the Reapers from ME. They seemed to be set up as the ultimate villain for good versus evil and we are just itching for out chance to take them out once and for all in a glorious battle! But then.... "nope, pick a color. everyone dies. trololololol" /sighs.

[efd731]

TeamLexana wrote...

I know villians who think they are the hero of their own story are awesome and all but sometimes having a total jerkbag with charisma that you can't wait to pummel is a good villian too. Borderlands 2 had a great one with Handsome Jack. God, that guy was a dick! But he was entertaining! AND we got to kick his teeth in at the end, so it was satisfying.

Bad example of that kind of villain I'd say are the Reapers from ME. They seemed to be set up as the ultimate villain for good versus evil and we are just itching for out chance to take them out once and for all in a glorious battle! But then.... "nope, pick a color. everyone dies. trololololol" /sighs.

totally agree! (Not touching the mass effect ending) about Jack. The whole game through I just loved to hate him. And his dying words just drove home that he thought he was the hero the whole time(utterly delusional) and how he justified his actions.

P.S.  Butt Stallion says hello 

[TeamLexana]

efd731 wrote...

TeamLexana wrote...

I know villians who think they are the hero of their own story are awesome and all but sometimes having a total jerkbag with charisma that you can't wait to pummel is a good villian too. Borderlands 2 had a great one with Handsome Jack. God, that guy was a dick! But he was entertaining! AND we got to kick his teeth in at the end, so it was satisfying.

Bad example of that kind of villain I'd say are the Reapers from ME. They seemed to be set up as the ultimate villain for good versus evil and we are just itching for out chance to take them out once and for all in a glorious battle! But then.... "nope, pick a color. everyone dies. trololololol" /sighs.

totally agree! (Not touching the mass effect ending) about Jack. The whole game through I just loved to hate him. And his dying words just drove home that he thought he was the hero the whole time(utterly delusional) and how he justified his actions.

P.S.  Butt Stallion says hello 

Jack may have thought he was a hero but he was clearly pyschotic, lol. Unlike characters like Logain or Meredith where you can kinda see their point, may not agree with it but at least they aren't kicking puppies just for lolz..

PS. Butt Stallion makes a pretty pretty princess. 

[Rusty Sandusky]

The ability to freeze up and play soap operas

[philippe willaume]

Clancy Browm

[Lulupab]

Azariah kyras from Warhammer Dawn of War.

It was the only character from any game that when killed I felt like DIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Fast Jimmy]

What makes a great villain?

It's gotta be the monologuing. And/or songs.

[Ieldra]

@OP:
I prefer the name "antagonist". If a "villain" deserves the term "villain", they already aren't what I like in antagonists. I like the sane ones with relatable goals, whose flaw lies in the methods they use and the sacrifices they make to get what they want. Since there is no absolute good or evil, all relatable conflicts are conflicts of interest with no "right" solution, and any kind of judgment has to be based on the balance between the methods used and the goals.

Loghain was a good one. He betrayed his king and sent an army to its doom because he thought Cailan's plans for closer ties to Orlais were a betrayal. Was he wrong? That depends on perspective. A degree of pragmatism is an indispensable trait in a ruler, but did he do too far? You could say his only flaw was that he couldn't see things clearly when it came to the Blight, but that's rather a flaw of judgment and competence than "villainy".

Why did I fight him? Well, he stood in the way of a goal *I* (or rather my Warden) considered more important than his. It turned out this *was* a Blight, but what if it hadn't been? Wouldn't we have plunged a kingdom into chaos for a delusion? 

There is more than one recipe for a good antagonist. The Joker is usually considered a great one, but I can't relate to him because my answer to the question "Why don't you just kill him?" would always be to look at the one who asks for a second, say "You know what? You're right.", and shoot the Joker. Those who just want to see the world burn, there is no reason to consider their viewpoint, they need to be excised if civilization is to survive, and I don't believe in a morality that lets them continue to the detriment of everything else just so I can feel morally superior.

I prefer the likes of Loghain.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

1) Intellect

2) Hidden (You dont know the villain is the villain before its too late (Well written if provided subtle hints)

3) Deceptive, good at manipulating people and control events

4) Physical deception: Appears harmless, is the opposite

5) Has human motivations that you can relate to

6) has flawed sides to their personality

7) Has a tragic past or childhood, which makes you curious if you couldve ended up the same if "swapped in the cradle"

8) Has a bad @ss voice actor

[dragonflight288]

For me, one of the absolute best villains was from another Bioware game that came out in the early 2000's.

I don't know if anyone played Jade Empire here or not, so I want to avoid spoilers in case people here have not played it, but the main antagonist of Jade Empire is, almost the singular best video game villain out there.

[KainD]

Villain is an oxymoron, they don't exist. There are only the antagonists.

[dragonflight288]

KainD wrote...

Villain is an oxymoron, they don't exist. There are only the antagonists.

In that case, heroes don't exist either. 

[KainD]

dragonflight288 wrote...

In that case, heroes don't exist either. 

Correct. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
I prefer the name "antagonist". If a "villain" deserves the term "villain", they already aren't what I like in antagonists

Co-frickin-sign!

[AresKeith]

KainD wrote...

Villain is an oxymoron, they don't exist. There are only the antagonists.

Not really

[rasloveszev]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

rasloveszev wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

rasloveszev wrote...

 Belief that they are the good guys. 

That's why I loved to hate Meridith and Lohgain. They did such awful evil things in the name of  'good' and there was no talking them out of it. 

Awful and evil is subjective. As is good.

So you're okay with slavery and murdering innocent people out of paranoria? 
No, good and bad is not that black and white, but it's not that gray either. 
There are lines most do not cross.

There are no lines that cannot be crossed. 

Can you make an argument that is based on science, research, and measurable data and evidence rather than a moralistic is-ought emotional appeal fallacy?

Good and Evil and standards are based on morals of the majority, not science and logic.

I think Lohgain's were logical, but his butt got killed because they were immoral. 

[rasloveszev]

KainD wrote...

Villain is an oxymoron, they don't exist. There are only the antagonists.

Someone didn't watch a Disney movie.

[CybAnt1]

Well, it should be noted the etymology of "villain" is from the Middle Ages - ironically enough. The root of the word is the same as villa.

http://www.etymonlin...hp?term=villain

c.1300, "base or low-born rustic," from Anglo-French and Old French villain, from Medieval Latin villanus "farmhand," from Latin villa "country house" (see villa).
The most important phases of the sense development of this word may be summed up as follows: 'inhabitant of a farm; peasant; churl, boor; clown; miser; knave, scoundrel.' Today both Fr. vilain and Eng. villain are used only in a pejorative sense. [Klein]

[end]

Through semantic change, it changed from meaning "lowborn" in the 1300s to someone "evil" much later (probably around the 1700s). (As you might suspect, that might have resulted from the attitudes of nobility/aristocrats toward peasants.) 

Modifié par CybAnt1, 04 février 2014 - 01:09 .

[rasloveszev]

phunx wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Can you make an argument that is based on science, research, and measurable data and evidence rather than a moralistic is-ought emotional appeal fallacy?

This is one of the silliest  things I've ever heard. Scientism much?

100% agreed. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

rasloveszev wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

rasloveszev wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

rasloveszev wrote...

 Belief that they are the good guys. 

That's why I loved to hate Meridith and Lohgain. They did such awful evil things in the name of  'good' and there was no talking them out of it. 

Awful and evil is subjective. As is good.

So you're okay with slavery and murdering innocent people out of paranoria? 
No, good and bad is not that black and white, but it's not that gray either. 
There are lines most do not cross.

There are no lines that cannot be crossed. 

Can you make an argument that is based on science, research, and measurable data and evidence rather than a moralistic is-ought emotional appeal fallacy?

Good and Evil and standards are based on morals of the majority, not science and logic.

I think Lohgain's were logical, but his butt got killed because they were immoral. 

You haven't actually made an argument. Why are they like that? How are you measuring how good or bad something is? You're skirting around the question.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

rasloveszev wrote...

phunx wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Can you make an argument that is based on science, research, and measurable data and evidence rather than a moralistic is-ought emotional appeal fallacy?

This is one of the silliest  things I've ever heard. Scientism much?

100% agreed. 

Not understanding something does not make it silly. I'm sorry that you lack the capacity to understand it.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

rasloveszev wrote...

KainD wrote...

Villain is an oxymoron, they don't exist. There are only the antagonists.

Someone didn't watch a Disney movie.

What makes Disney's very shallow and one-dimensional, black and white portrayal correct?