31 réponses à ce sujet

[Coughee Brotha]

 I really like being a soldier in Mass Effect, but lore-wise, can they really stand up to someone with biotics.  Im not really referring to gameplay mechanics but it seems like biotics are the top of the food chain.  I know its just a game  and I might be going too far into this but how can a mere soldier really stand up to someone with biotics?

[Mitch0821]

Realistically, they wouldn't. It's kind of like in the Star Wars Universe, where most jedi/dark jedi/sith would absoluetely brutalize any regular old soldier with just the force if they wanted to. The problem is that for a soldier to beat something like biotics, they'd have to kill a biotic before the power hits them. That sounds easier said then done.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Biotics are powered up more in the game. In the universe itself, biotics require quite a bit of charge-up time and they take a lot out of you. A biotic had to consume a lot more calories per day and even travel with power bars and stuff because of how much effort it takes.

[Nimander]

Well, in-game biotics tires you out. Also, apparently, at least as of ME2, shields block biotic powers. Makes sense really as shields are ME fields, they should conflict with biotic abilities.



No reason in-game wise, a soldier with shields shouldn't be able to fight a biotic. It'd get down to who wins first: does the soldier take down the biotic before the biotic tears through his shields and throws him in the air to go flailing.

[ColloquialAnachron]

Yeah with the "rules" of the ME universe, a regular soldier shouldn't stand any real chance in a 1-1 fight. Biotics can even use their powers to greatly amplify hand to hand damage, so really...maybe exploding pants?

[Popstick]

If they're blindfolded, gagged and their arms and legs are tied together...and maybe asleep, then you just may have a chance in taking a Biotic down. Otherwise, no, a wave of the arm, and you'll go smashing into a wall.

[Teivel]

No doubt that being a biotic makes you a more dangerous and valuable individual in any given sittuation. That said ME2 seems to indicate that biotic and kinetic barriers may be able to neutralise incoming powers much like they do projectiles. In other words you can't just throw someone around if they have sufficiently powerful shields up but you can batter those shields down. Whether that is pure gameplay or lore friendly...we are not yet sure.

[Schneidend]

Well, in ME2, biotics won't automatically effect properly shielded and armored targets. Weak enemies can be easily defeated with any powers at full health, but if you were to fight, say, a Soldier of Shepard's caliber as Biotic Shepard, your biotics wouldn't work without bringing down that enemy's defenses.



The lore explanation is likely that because biotics create mass effects, and kinetic barriers are themselves mass effects, they cancel each other out.

[Shad0wOGRE]

Smart soldiers travel with biotics of their own...



Also, biotics eventually just run out of steam. Sure they may kill half the platoon but the other half eventually wears down their barriers and splatters them. Or the team sniper pops the biotic's head from long range before the biotic even knows it's in a fight..

[Awevii]

Teivel wrote...

No doubt that being a biotic makes you a more dangerous and valuable individual in any given sittuation. That said ME2 seems to indicate that biotic and kinetic barriers may be able to neutralise incoming powers much like they do projectiles. In other words you can't just throw someone around if they have sufficiently powerful shields up but you can batter those shields down. Whether that is pure gameplay or lore friendly...we are not yet sure.

QFT and also I think it depends on the capabilities of the Soldier, They have the skills to take down anyone in a situation. Its just a matter of how good you are at your job. A quick well placed concussive shot then a series of blasts from whichever ammo depletes the Biotic Barrier, (I can't remember which one it is), then a few shotgun blasts, also a few more concussive shots in between to keep the Biotic of his or her feet would turn an effective Biotic into a mess.

[DocLasty]

Awevii wrote...

Teivel wrote...

No doubt that being a biotic makes you a more dangerous and valuable individual in any given sittuation. That said ME2 seems to indicate that biotic and kinetic barriers may be able to neutralise incoming powers much like they do projectiles. In other words you can't just throw someone around if they have sufficiently powerful shields up but you can batter those shields down. Whether that is pure gameplay
or lore friendly...we are not yet sure.

QFT and also I think it depends on the capabilities of the Soldier, They have the skills to take down anyone in a situation. Its just a matter of how good you are at your job. A quick well placed concussive shot then a series of blasts from whichever ammo depletes the Biotic Barrier, (I can't remember which one it is), then a few shotgun blasts, also a few more concussive shots in between to keep the Biotic of his or her feet would turn an effective Biotic into a mess.

Not to mention Adrenaline Rush, which ups their reflexes quite a bit.

[lokiarchetype]

I think a better question is, if biotics are so dangerous, why do security guards only secure your weapons?

[Awevii]

lokiarchetype wrote...

I think a better question is, if biotics are so dangerous, why do security guards only secure your weapons?

Because remove your surgically implanted Biotic Amp is a little silly if you ask me.

[Teivel]

lokiarchetype wrote...

I think a better question is, if biotics are so dangerous, why do security guards only secure your weapons?

And this is part of what i believe makes biotics so dangerous and more feared than a soldier with a revenant for example, even if the latter can probably wreak more actual damage on the battlefield.

You can't disarm a biotic unless you put them in a specially designed containment cell, as they do with Zero. An unarmed biotic is still increadibly deadly. The only way to disarm a biotic would be to pull the implants and that's an involved surgical procedure.

We know that the Salarians tend to use their biotics to gather HUMINT rather than as soldiers.

I reason here it's because while on the battlefield a soldiers weapon and hardsuit may raise him closer to the level of a biotic, in intelligence where you may be unarmed, being biotic would be increadibly useful.

[Schneidend]

CommanderNuetral wrote...

Smart soldiers travel with biotics of their own...

Also, biotics eventually just run out of steam. Sure they may kill half the platoon but the other half eventually wears down their barriers and splatters them. Or the team sniper pops the biotic's head from long range before the biotic even knows it's in a fight..

This, plus biotics not affecting powerfully-shielded targets, means that biotics don't make you some kind of god.

[lokiarchetype]

Awevii wrote...

lokiarchetype wrote...

I think a better question is, if biotics are so dangerous, why do security guards only secure your weapons?

Because remove your surgically implanted Biotic Amp is a little silly if you ask me.

While you can't disarm a biotic, the idea is that as a security guard, you should view them as constantly armed, so the biotic should get an armed escort or something. 
There should be some kind of measures taken to make sure they don't cause any trouble.

Modifié par lokiarchetype, 21 janvier 2010 - 05:54 .

[Chained_Creator]

Can't kill what you can't see, a sniper will take down my biotic enemy. *nod*

Or something equally cheesy.

Modifié par Chained_Creator, 21 janvier 2010 - 05:49 .

[SmilingMirror]

Coughee Brotha wrote...

 I really like being a soldier in Mass Effect, but lore-wise, can they really stand up to someone with biotics.  Im not really referring to gameplay mechanics but it seems like biotics are the top of the food chain.  I know its just a game  and I might be going too far into this but how can a mere soldier really stand up to someone with biotics?

Same reason why wizards are usually not stronger than warriors in other games. It takes time to develop your skills, be it physical or mental. Soldiers have been heavily moddified genetically and spent their time learning how to use guns and a variety of weapons while Biotics have to learn how to move their muscles in a way where they can shift a mass effect field.

Both have invested the same amount of time and patience but each does it their own way.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 21 janvier 2010 - 05:58 .

[Teivel]

Having centuries to develop your biotic tallents also goes part way to explaining why the Assari tend to be amongst the most powerful, Samara's floating tricks looks like it would require not just great power but increadible control.

Using Biotics is as much a challenge as taking offhand headshots. You need fine control of your nerbous system and training to control the shape and nature of the fields you're going trying to generate, excelent mental discipline is needed to create an appropriately powered field rather than one that is far to strong or weak.

From there remember that biotics, like an ezo core, require an electric current to be piped through the the nodules in order to generate that effect. The Amps can ramp up the fields but first the biotics own nervous system has to supply enough electricity to get the field going. You'd basically pulling power from your own nervous system while at the same time having to maintain fine  control. Try doing that under fire....

I stand by my point that a biotic individual is a step above others in terms of individual deadliness and more than anything, versatility. A biotic can engage a target unarmed, blow through obstructions, float on air....they can do alot of things than someone wielding an assault rifle can not. That said such abilities do require training, dicipline, specialised equipment and are not without their limits.

Modifié par Teivel, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:42 .

[MojojojoeJDH]

It's not just shields. Armor most likely has internal padding and other tech to reduce the effects of kinetic impacts like throw. But yeah shields would definitely.



And to the post about shifting muscles to form ME fields that has noting to do with it. It has to do with nerves not muscles, movement isn't actually required. Biotics are simply taught to associate certain movements with certain biotic attacks.

...From ME: Ascension



The Ascension Project used simple biomechanical feedback, such as clenching a fist or thrusting a hand high into the air, as a tool for unleashing biotic power. Associating basic muscle movements with the necessary complex thought patterns created a triggering mechanism for specific biotic feats. Through practice and training, the corresponding physical action became a catalyst for the required mental processes, increasing both the speed and strength of the desired biotic effect.

[Monster A-Go Go]

It's all been said, so I'll just add:



There's a reason the military pays premium recruitment bonuses to biotics, and it's not just because they're "neat".

[Schneidend]

Eccentrick79 wrote...

There's a reason the military pays premium recruitment bonuses to biotics, and it's not just because they're "neat".

Hm, I didn't actually know this. Very interesting. I imagine this does not sit well with many groups that find transhumanism questionable. I do hope either ME2 or 3 covers this.

[BlaiseVoltaire]

Chained_Creator wrote...

Can't kill what you can't see, a sniper will take down my biotic enemy. *nod*

Or something equally cheesy.

This is my belief. As people have said, a biotic's attacks would be nullified by shields (since they're ME fields), giving soldiers and other non-biotics a fighting chance, but in terms of who stands the best chance against Biotics, I'd say snipers/Infiltrators.

An Infiltrator can cloak and decimate an unwary biotic, and as a sniper, they can take out biotics without being spotted.

The best weapon for a sniper would, I feel, be a powerful, steady semi-automatic sniper rifle (fires as fast as you can pull the trigger, as briefly seen in the Soldier class video, I believe).

Modifié par BlaiseVoltaire, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:48 .

[MojojojoeJDH]

Teivel wrote...

Having centuries to develop your biotic tallents also goes part way to explaining why the Assari tend to be amongst the most powerful, Samara's floating tricks looks like it would require not just great power but increadible control.

Using Biotics is as much a challenge as taking offhand headshots. You need fine control of your nerbous system and training to control the shape and nature of the fields you're going trying to generate, excelent mental discipline is needed to create an appropriately powered field rather than one that is far to strong or weak.

From there remember that biotics, like an ezo core, require an electric current to be piped through the the nodules in order to generate that effect. The Amps can ramp up the fields but first the biotics own nervous system has to supply enough electricity to get the field going. You'd basically pulling power from your own nervous system while at the same time having to maintain fine  control. Try doing that under fire....

I stand by my point that a biotic individual is a step above others in terms of individual deadliness and more than anything, versatility. A biotic can engage a target unarmed, blow through obstructions, float on air....they can do alot of things than someone wielding an assault rifle can not. That said such abilities do require training, dicipline, specialised equipment and are not without their limits.

I don't think it would be all that hard to do the floating thing, not when you take a Vanguards Charge into consideration. If you watch the effect carefully, I used video editing software to look at it in slow motion, you are basically turning yourself into a human mass relay. The blurry trail you use behind not to mention the time dilation of the charging up of the effect show a strong resemplence to the effects caused by a mass relay.

Though it hasn't been stated how it works it would seem that mass relays work in conjuntion with one another to accelerate an object as well as dialate time to such as extent that objects sent through relays travel between the two instantaneously. There is not jumpgate, no wormhole, no warped space or alternate dimension, the relays simply dilate the time continuum so its practically at a standstill and accerate objects to unfathomable speeds. Vanguards do THAT on a small scale, floating would simply require you to lower your own mass so that gravity doesn't have as much of an effect, singularity if focusing massive amounts of biotic power to a mass-raising field surround a single proton, throw is generating kinetic force via a mass effect pfrojectile, pull reduces the mass of an object to next to nothing in a manner that yanks a target, warp is a series of small ME fields that change polarity rapidly going from mass-raising to mass-reducing and I'm not sure about shockwave. 

[Schneidend]

BlaiseVoltaire wrote...

The best weapon for a sniper would, I feel, be a powerful, steady semi-automatic sniper rifle (fires as fast as you can pull the trigger, as briefly seen in the Soldier class video, I believe).

I believe the related weapon for the ME2 sniper rifle is a semi-automatic, while the one in the arsenal is the classic "bolt-action" we're familiar with. At least, that would be my guess, given the related weapons usually differ in function in some fundamental way, such as the battle rifle vs. the assault rifle and the pump-action vs. the auto-shotty.