100 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

I don't think they did anything right in terms of exploration in ME2. They did the same thing they did with the rest of the game. Made it linear. We didn't explore in ME2. We landed on a planet and ran through a maze or two. Or we landed, ran down a path, found a facility, killed the bad guys and left. No reason. No story behind it. Just because.


Now, obviously I know ME1's exploration was anything but perfect, and quite bland. But atleast we had the freedom to set out in any direction we like. In ME2 we were just herded like cattle. Atleast ME1's had some back-stories here and there with dialogue thrown in. (Asari Diplomacy, ExoGeni Facility, Hostile Takeover, Kohoku's Missing Marines, Major Kyle, Espionage Probe). ME2 would just have us land somewhere and kill some Blue Suns for 'who knows' why.....

[AlanC9]

Free? I wasn't free to land Shepard exactly where she was trying to go in the first place. Sure, my Shepards weren't free to explore, but why would they want to in the first place? They're marines, not prospectors.

And the backstories issue has nothing whatever to do with driving around aimlessly on planets. Don't conflate the two just because you didn't like how ME2 handled either aspect.

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 février 2014 - 04:13 .

[von uber]

AlanC9 wrote...
Except that wasn't the Council's dirty work. They didn't even know she existed.

Hence I said 'feels like'. Which it did to me.

[AlanC9]

von uber wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Except that wasn't the Council's dirty work. They didn't even know she existed.

Hence I said 'feels like'. Which it did to me.

Gotcha. I missed that since it just felt like random RPG sidequest stuff to me. Subjective, obviously.

[CronoDragoon]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Mass Effect 2 and 3, while great games, got way too cozy and warm compared to the first game. I miss going to an uncharted world and hearing nothing but the strong wind with mountains and stars as far as the eye could see. In 2 and 3 you've pretty much got people around you, who talks a lot, at all times which really takes away from this lonely, cold and space-y feeling.

I understand your point of view but I don't share it. Where you see a strong notion of the cold emptiness of uncharted space, I saw lazy, bare-bones game design and filler content. I want to keep exploration out of ME unless they can work it into the story better.

[Mcfly616]

AlanC9 wrote...

Free? I wasn't free to land Shepard exactly where she was trying to go in the first place. Sure, my Shepards weren't free to explore, but why would they want to in the first place? They're marines, not prospectors.

And the backstories issue has nothing whatever to do with driving around aimlessly on planets. Don't conflate the two just because you didn't like how ME2 handled either aspect.

the two are connected. So I will feel free to discuss any aspect of the side-missions and exploration gameplay of either game as I see fit.


Idc if I'm a marine, Indiana Jones or a pepperoni pizza. ME1 did exploration much better. We had more freedom, that's a fact. (not sure why you brought up the lack of freedom to land on any planet you want. Nobody ever ventured to say it was possible to). It's not really exploring if you're just driving down a one-way street until you hit the end of the road.(ME2's approach). Unlike ME1 where I can go in whatever direction I want. It's wide open. Not some narrow path.

As for the back-stories, I was simply saying they actually existed in ME1 side-missions, unlike ME2. I just think side-missions and exploration can be better. And hey, if you don't like those things, they're completely optional (cool, ain't it?)

Modifié par Mcfly616, 04 février 2014 - 04:43 .

[eye basher]

Mcfly616 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Free? I wasn't free to land Shepard exactly where she was trying to go in the first place. Sure, my Shepards weren't free to explore, but why would they want to in the first place? They're marines, not prospectors.

And the backstories issue has nothing whatever to do with driving around aimlessly on planets. Don't conflate the two just because you didn't like how ME2 handled either aspect.

the two are connected. So I will feel free to discuss any aspect of the side-missions and exploration gameplay of either game as I see fit.


Idc if I'm a marine, Indiana Jones or a pepperoni pizza. ME1 did exploration much better. We had more freedom, that's a fact. (not sure why you brought up the lack of freedom to land on any planet you want. Nobody ever ventured to say it was possible to). It's not really exploring if you're just driving down a one-way street until you hit the end of the road.(ME2's approach). Unlike ME1 where I can go in whatever direction I want. It's wide open. Not some narrow path.

As for the back-stories, I was simply saying they actually existed in ME1 side-missions, unlike ME2. I just think side-missions and exploration can be better. And hey, if you don't like those things, they're completely optional (cool, ain't it?)

Yep and that freedom gave me the oh so wonderful choice of going left and looking at dirt or going right and looking at dirt or going forward and looking at guess what more dirt and maybe every once in a while i run into a porta-john half buried in the dirt.

[Mcfly616]

Ah what a cycle, and this is where I come back to the beginning of it all and once again reiterate that while "bland" and "repetitive", it could be improved upon (i.e. adding diverse landscapes, geography, structures, world occurences), instead of taking away all freedom and holding our hand through a shooting gallery.

If I have to choose between being herded like cattle to my destination, or grazing the grassy plains at my leisure (which could possibly, oh Idk, maybe be improved upon).....I choose leisure and freedom.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think the point most people are making is that ME1's system was boring and not fun. And we're arguing over whether the concept was flawed or it's execution. For the record I'm going with execution.

[AlanC9]

[quote]Mcfly616 wrote...

the two are connected. So I will feel free to discuss any aspect of the side-missions and exploration gameplay of either game as I see fit.[/quote]

What's the connection? Besides them both being Things About ME2's N7 Missions That Mcfly616 Doesn't Like, I didn't see one.

[quote]
Idc if I'm a marine, Indiana Jones or a pepperoni pizza. ME1 did exploration much better. We had more freedom, that's a fact. (not sure why you brought up the lack of freedom to land on any planet you want. Nobody ever ventured to say it was possible to). [/quote]

I brought it up because doing it your way forces my Shepards to waste time driving around. You don't see that?

[quote]
It's not really exploring if you're just driving down a one-way street until you hit the end of the road.(ME2's approach). Unlike ME1 where I can go in whatever direction I want. It's wide open. Not some narrow path.[/quote]
[/quote]

If driving around empty landscapes  for no good reason is the definition of exploring, Shepard shouldn't be an explorer.

[AlanC9]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Ah what a cycle, and this is where I come back to the beginning of it all and once again reiterate that while "bland" and "repetitive", it could be improved upon (i.e. adding diverse landscapes, geography, structures, world occurences), instead of taking away all freedom and holding our hand through a shooting gallery.

Well, that's the thing -- you're asking for more resources to be devoted to something completely peripheral to Shepard's story. Shepard is a marine, not an explorer. Sure, Bio can contrive reasons for Shepard to spend a few minutes exploring, but if more resources are available, I'd prefer them to be devoted to something important to the story.

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 février 2014 - 09:55 .

[Invisible Man]

AlanC9 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Ah what a cycle, and this is where I come back to the beginning of it all and once again reiterate that while "bland" and "repetitive", it could be improved upon (i.e. adding diverse landscapes, geography, structures, world occurences), instead of taking away all freedom and holding our hand through a shooting gallery.

Well, that's the thing -- you're asking for more resources to be devoted to something completely peripheral to Shepard's story. Shepard is a marine, not an explorer. Sure, Bio can contrive reasons for Shepard to spend a few minutes exploring, but if more resources are available, I'd prefer them to be devoted to something important to the story.

then you shouldn't complain that exploration sucks. cause you wanted the devs to put resources elsewhere. or are you saying exploration should be pulled entirely? if that's the case, then this wouldn't be mass effect anymore, at least in my opinion.

[Mcfly616]

AlanC9 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

the two are connected. So I will feel free to discuss any aspect of the side-missions and exploration gameplay of either game as I see fit.

What's the connection? Besides them both being Things About ME2's N7 Missions That Mcfly616 Doesn't Like, I didn't see one.

Idc if I'm a marine, Indiana Jones or a pepperoni pizza. ME1 did exploration much better. We had more freedom, that's a fact. (not sure why you brought up the lack of freedom to land on any planet you want. Nobody ever ventured to say it was possible to).

I brought it up because doing it your way forces my Shepards to waste time driving around. You don't see that?

It's not really exploring if you're just driving down a one-way street until you hit the end of the road.(ME2's approach). Unlike ME1 where I can go in whatever direction I want. It's wide open. Not some narrow path.

If driving around empty landscapes  for no good reason is the definition of exploring, Shepard shouldn't be an explorer.

1. A fair amount of side missions in ME1 involved going to the uncharted worlds where we have the freedom to explore iinstead of running down a narrow path like every other mission in the game. Side-missions were not as linear as they were in ME2. 


2. Your character isn't being forced to do anything. It's completely optional. So I really don't care about your Shepard if he doesn't even have to do it. I simply said ME1's approach to side missions was better imo. Less linear and more open. I like to label it with "exploration". 


3. Who's talking about Shepard? His story is done. I'm referring to the approach I hope they take for the next game (i.e. the title of this thread)

Modifié par Mcfly616, 04 février 2014 - 10:23 .

[Mcfly616]

I guess it just comes down to: idc what the mission is. I don't want to run down any more hallways. I want the freedom to go where I want on any given mission. Idc what you didn't like about ME1 or if Shepard was a damn space archeologist or not. No more hallways. No more confined claustrophobic linear ass hand-holding missions from point A to point B.


Idc if my next character is another soldier or damn scientist. I want to be able to approach the mission from any angle I want. I don't want my only option being: straight at them.

Seriously, the linearity and confined spaces of the sequels don't offer much tactical flexibility (like flanking, sniping from a mountain, ambushing). Nor does it help with immersion or atmosphere. Every mission it's the same thing in the sequels. They see us, shoot 'em and push forward. Repeat.

You obviously need it all broken down for you word for word so: linear = bad

[Venom man4]

Ehh I guess some planets can be mainly ruins, but I prefer places like Illium, mega cities with neon lights at night is were things like graphics shine most IMO. While lone planet ruins and outpost can make for good moments, I'll gladly take a city over it, just gives me more of a sense of being connected to the universe.

[AlanC9]

Mcfly616 wrote...

1. A fair amount of side missions in ME1 involved going to the uncharted worlds where we have the freedom to explore iinstead of running down a narrow path like every other mission in the game. Side-missions were not as linear as they were in ME2.

I agree that ME1 made missions non-linear by putting some mineral deposits and whatnot around so you could do other things besides just drive straight to the target. I don't particularly care if Bio pretends a linear mission is non-linear by cloaking it in fluff or not; I'm not all that bothered by linearity in the first place.

2. Your character isn't being forced to do anything. It's completely optional. So I really don't care about your Shepard if he doesn't even have to do it. I simply said ME1's approach to side missions was better imo. Less linear and more open. I like to label it with "exploration".

And I don't care about your Shepards wanting to drive around on empty worlds. I do care about my Shepards not being able to get on with the mission immediately because yours want to drive around for a while before getting on with the mission.

Now that we've established that neither of us cares about the other's taste, what's next?

3. Who's talking about Shepard? His story is done. I'm referring to the approach I hope they take for the next game (i.e. the title of this thread)

I don't know enough about the next game's PC to know if it makes sense for her  to be driving around aimlessly on empty planets. If you want to talk about a potential PC for whom driving around aimlessly on empty planets makes sense, go ahead. What's the PC trying to accomplish by doing this?

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 février 2014 - 11:18 .

[AlanC9]

Mcfly616 wrote...

I guess it just comes down to: idc what the mission is. I don't want to run down any more hallways. I want the freedom to go where I want on any given mission. Idc what you didn't like about ME1 or if Shepard was a damn space archeologist or not. No more hallways. No more confined claustrophobic linear ass hand-holding missions from point A to point B.


Idc if my next character is another soldier or damn scientist. I want to be able to approach the mission from any angle I want. I don't want my only option being: straight at them.

Lotta idc here. 

But yeah, I get it. You don't care about role-playing, you just like exploration because you like it, whether it makes sense or not. Did I ever say you had to stop liking it? All I was ever saying is that the thing you like doesn't make sense. The only reason it was ever in ME was because SF CRPGs traditionally do this sort of thing. Which is also why it got cut; it never had much to do with what Bio was aiming at.

You obviously need it all broken down for you word for word so: linear = bad

Wow. That's kind of whiny. Do you always have a problem when people don't share your tastes?

And is there a reason why linear = bad, or is this just a pure taste thing, full stop?

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 février 2014 - 11:22 .

[Mcfly616]

Lol yeah it's funny when people such as yourself twist things and then when I have to spell it out for you grade-school style you pull the "oh you gotta problem with dif'rent 'pinions n stuff bro?" Hahahaha


Nah, I just got a problem with you putting made up bull**** in my mouth.

All I've been saying the whole time is that I prefer a little open-endedness. Some freedom to go some place other than straight ahead. NOBODY ever said anything about driving around "empty" world's. Not me atleast. Not once.

As has been stated numerous times (like 3 times now? Ahh as if it's necessary, you've played the game and you know it's a fact): side-missions aren't mandatory, therefore your Shepard shouldnt be having any trouble getting on with the mission immediately. (ofcourse this was the first point of the sentence I posted in which you responded to, yet still blatantly ignored in said response. Probably necessary for the sake of your argument, as it obviously sinks it)


All you have been doing this entire time is saying that I've been saying things that I really never said at all. Learn to read.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 05 février 2014 - 01:20 .

[Mcfly616]

The industry already has enough full blown 3rd person shooters. It seems you'd like to see Mass Effect join the ranks. I'll pass....

[Sion1138]

There was quite a bit of time-wasting in ME2 and 3.

Generic fetch-quests, run and shoot side-quests for minor assets assigned to Shepard of all people, casinos, parties, apartment furnishings...

Only difference is that these were more orchestrated events, without even the illusion of freedom.

[Mcfly616]

Sion1138 wrote...

There was quite a bit of time-wasting in ME2 and 3.

Generic fetch-quests, run and shoot side-quests for minor assets assigned to Shepard of all people, casinos, parties, apartment furnishings...

Only difference is that these were more orchestrated events, without even the illusion of freedom.

exactly....and all I'm simply saying is: if you're gonna have pointless side-quests, a little freedom and flexibility in the way that we're able to approach them is better than no freedom or flexibility at all. Hell, run straight to your target if you want.....but the game shouldn't force you into that approach.


If BW adds more freedom, nothing is stopping players from charging straight ahead still. Run through the game as fast as you want. I'd like to take my time and look around the MEU for once. All it does is add options. Nothing wrong with that.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Mcfly616 wrote...

As has been stated numerous times (like 3 times now? Ahh as if it's necessary, you've played the game and you know it's a fact): side-missions aren't mandatory, therefore your Shepard shouldnt be having any trouble getting on with the mission immediately. (ofcourse this was the first point of the sentence I posted in which you responded to, yet still blatantly ignored in said response. Probably necessary for the sake of your argument, as it obviously sinks it)

 

The whole point, with any purchase, is to get maximum value for a given cost. If your recommendation for someone who doesn't like side quests is "skip all side quests", then they're better off arguing for the removal of all side quests altogether.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I don't really think ME1 had 'freedom' with its planets. Ultimately, the planets were basically large corridors themselves with the only variance being collecting the various scattered objects in a particular order or occasionally running someone over in the Mako.

What the planets did have was a feeling of bareness that filled you with a sense of how large and open the galaxy was. Except, as Alan has said Mass Effect was never really about that sort of thing, Shepard was not an explorer. Additionally, it was boring.

To justify the planets being in the next game the main character should be some sort of space explorer and the terrain should be much more exciting.

[AlanC9]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...


The whole point, with any purchase, is to get maximum value for a given cost. If your recommendation for someone who doesn't like side quests is "skip all side quests", then they're better off arguing for the removal of all side quests altogether.

Yep. Or really cheap, crappy side quests as a compromise position.

Modifié par AlanC9, 05 février 2014 - 02:51 .

[TheMyron]

I miss how no matter where you are, you always hear some kind of cheesy (but cool) sci-fi music.