526 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Definitions with religious content aside:

"Sacrifice - an act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy."


Shepard can choose to Destroy while being well aware that he will most likely die. He chooses to give up his own life because he believes wiping out the Reapers is more important than his own life.

That's a very subjective idea based on a perspective that isn't universally shared.

So it's no more a sacrifice than it is a leap of logic that shooting a pipe might just be an avenue of venting frustration.

Shepard knowing that Destroy will kill him is not subjective at all. It's in-game. The Catalyst tells him that it will destroy all synthetics and that even he is partly synthetic. I.E. it will destroy you. And it certainly happens. It's not a perspective. It's a fact.

[Mcfly616]

Robosexual wrote...

"The energy released from the Crucible will destroy the mass relays. By the way you happen to be standing on a mass relay".

Not sacrifice, apparently.

 

Lol

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...


The Catalyst is full of it. He didn't build the crucible or know the extent on how advanced it could be. He was surprised enough that you got it built in the first place. The only thing he knows is it that it changed him, "changed the parameters" and whatnot.

Now that's what we call "subjective". 

[wolfsite]

Just out of curiousity, have we started arguing in circles yet? It's hard keeping things straight with all the different interpretations and personal word definitions.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mcfly616 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Definitions with religious content aside:

"Sacrifice - an act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy."


Shepard can choose to Destroy while being well aware that he will most likely die. He chooses to give up his own life because he believes wiping out the Reapers is more important than his own life.

That's a very subjective idea based on a perspective that isn't universally shared.

So it's no more a sacrifice than it is a leap of logic that shooting a pipe might just be an avenue of venting frustration.

Shepard knowing that Destroy will kill him is not subjective at all. It's in-game. The Catalyst tells him that it will destroy all synthetics and that even he is partly synthetic. I.E. it will destroy you. And it certainly happens. It's not a perspective. It's a fact.

Then why does Mr. Nite Brite change his definition of synthetic? Why can't he keep his definition straight?

Simply put, it's about as objective as the fact that Arsenal F.C. is the best team that has ever graced the English Premier League.

[dreamgazer]

wolfsite wrote...

Just out of curiousity, have we started arguing in circles yet? It's hard keeping things straight with all the different interpretations and personal word definitions.

Arguments in circles? On the BSN?

[dreamgazer]

Shepard possibly getting fried in Destroy is speculative, not objective. Always has been.

[Clayless]

StreetMagic wrote...

Oh, we're back at the "mass relays are destroyed" now. Luckily, I started the game last summer with EC. Didn't have to deal with that crap like you early adopters.

You must be so confused when they fly past that destroyed mass relay in Destroy then.

But it seems like you're done trying to headcanon how it's not a sacrifice, so now we're done.

[wolfsite]

Robosexual wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Oh, we're back at the "mass relays are destroyed" now. Luckily, I started the game last summer with EC. Didn't have to deal with that crap like you early adopters.

You must be so confused when they fly past that destroyed mass relay in Destroy then.

But it seems like you're done trying to headcanon how it's not a sacrifice, so now we're done.

This is another part that is rather subjective, in the Arrival DLC it showed that if a Mass Relay is destroyed the amount of force from the energy released is enough to wipe out an entire star system.  In the EC ending the planets are still intact and the fleets were still in orbit which indicates they were not destroyed but just badly damaged but repairable.  Plus since the Citadel was in orbit around earth if it was destroyed there the earth would have perished with it, however since the earth is still intact the Citadel was not destoyed, just badly damaged.

Modifié par wolfsite, 04 février 2014 - 02:22 .

[SilJeff]

Its been two years. Time to move on if you are really that upset over it

[wolfsite]

SilJeff wrote...

Its been two years. Time to move on if you are really that upset over it

You are asking for quite a lot.

[Clayless]

wolfsite wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Oh, we're back at the "mass relays are destroyed" now. Luckily, I started the game last summer with EC. Didn't have to deal with that crap like you early adopters.

You must be so confused when they fly past that destroyed mass relay in Destroy then.

But it seems like you're done trying to headcanon how it's not a sacrifice, so now we're done.

This is another part that is rather subjective, in the Arrival DLC it showed that if a Mass Relay is destroyed the amount of force from the energy released is enough to wipe out an entire star system.  In the EC ending the planets are still intact and the fleets were still in orbit which indicates they were not destroyed but just badly damaged but repairable.

That depends on whether or not the Crucible releases the energy the same way as a massive rock. A lot of us on BSN didn't think so (before EC) and after EC Bioware confirmed that, albeit with a graphical change during the cutscene.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

SilJeff wrote...

Its been two years. Time to move on if you are really that upset over it

After you. Move on.

[wolfsite]

Robosexual wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Oh, we're back at the "mass relays are destroyed" now. Luckily, I started the game last summer with EC. Didn't have to deal with that crap like you early adopters.

You must be so confused when they fly past that destroyed mass relay in Destroy then.

But it seems like you're done trying to headcanon how it's not a sacrifice, so now we're done.

This is another part that is rather subjective, in the Arrival DLC it showed that if a Mass Relay is destroyed the amount of force from the energy released is enough to wipe out an entire star system.  In the EC ending the planets are still intact and the fleets were still in orbit which indicates they were not destroyed but just badly damaged but repairable.

That depends on whether or not the Crucible releases the energy the same way as a massive rock. A lot of us on BSN didn't think so (before EC) and after EC Bioware confirmed that, albeit with a graphical change during the cutscene.

The codex in ME3 even states when a Relay is destroyed the energy released will devastate the entire star system which is why plans to destroy relays in certain systems to eliminate Reaper forces was shot down.  Thus the Relay's were not destroyed only damaged but in a repairable state.  The Crucible is connected to the Citadel and as you stated the Citadel is a Relay meaning it has the exact same, if not more, energy contained in it meaning if it was destroyed there would be no possible way for the earth, let alone the fleets, to survive that explosion.  Thus again the relays were not destroyed.

Modifié par wolfsite, 04 février 2014 - 02:33 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

Isn't the explosion caused by the destruction of the Alpha Relay caused by the unrestrained Eezo core? If that's the case it really shouldn't matter how the Relay was destroyed but just whether or not the rings/containment system were destroyed or not. I guess it's ultimately pointless though since in the EC the galaxy is spared -- although wasn't it confirmed pre-EC that the galaxy was "a wasteland" after the Crucible was used by Mac Walters in the After Hours app?

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 04 février 2014 - 02:36 .

[Clayless]

StreetMagic wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Shepard possibly getting fried in Destroy is speculative, not objective. Always has been.

Basically, robosexual just wants us to suck his dick. Somehow life isn't complete unless everyone else is brought into his fold and adopt his ideals of "sacrifice". It doesn't matter if you say "Eh, I'll take Bioware at their word. The breath scene works for me." He wants us to accept his view instead. Nothing else will be tolerated.

At least that's what I'm getting out of this. Too bad life isn't simple, where people simply had different playthroughs and left others out of it.

One can dream, I guess.

Ignoring the fact that a lot of this post is bizarre and nonsensical;

Of course not. You can take any view you want, it just has to hold water.

You can ignore evidence and headcanon things if you want, you can even take incomplete evidence and come to a conclusion, but if someone calls you out on it and you have to resort to defending your argument with things like "he wants us to suck his **k", then it's not the person that's at fault, it's your argument.

Not being able to defend it doesn't mean I want you to take my view, it means I want you to be able to defend it. If you can't, don't make it and expect people to not criticise and poke holes in it.

[dreamgazer]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Isn't the explosion caused by the destruction of the Alpha Relay caused by the unrestrained Eezo core? If that's the case it really shouldn't matter how the Relay was destroyed but just whether or not the rings/containment system were destroyed or not. I guess it's ultimately pointless though since in the EC the galaxy is spared -- although wasn't it confirmed pre-EC that the galaxy was "a wasteland" after the Crucible was used by Mac Walters in the After Hours app?

No, Walters said something to the effect of the galaxy being a wasteland that wouldn't be interesting to explore after the events in ME3, in relation to post-ending DLC. Of course, you could look at Earth, Palaven, Thessia, and most other planets ravaged by the Reapers during the war and call them "wastelands" already. 

And I do think there's a difference between brute-force traumatic destruction and a controlled energy explosion. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 04 février 2014 - 02:41 .

[wolfsite]

dreamgazer wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Isn't the explosion caused by the destruction of the Alpha Relay caused by the unrestrained Eezo core? If that's the case it really shouldn't matter how the Relay was destroyed but just whether or not the rings/containment system were destroyed or not. I guess it's ultimately pointless though since in the EC the galaxy is spared -- although wasn't it confirmed pre-EC that the galaxy was "a wasteland" after the Crucible was used by Mac Walters in the After Hours app?

No, Walters said something to the effect of the galaxy being a wasteland that wouldn't be interesting to explore after the events in ME3, in relation to post-ending DLC. Of course, you coul look at Earth, Palaven, Thessia, and most other planets ravaged by the Reapers and call them "wastelands". 

And I do think there's a difference between brute-force traumatic destruction and a controlled energy explosion. 

Depends on how much energy is in the explosion which is information we don't have, though since the main planets are shown in EC being rebuilt it would indicate the energy was not the same as the energy released from the exploding relay in Arrival.

[Clayless]

wolfsite wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

That depends on whether or not the Crucible releases the energy the same way as a massive rock. A lot of us on BSN didn't think so (before EC) and after EC Bioware confirmed that, albeit with a graphical change during the cutscene.

The codex in ME3 even states when a Relay is destroyed the energy released will devastate the entire star system which is why plans to destroy relays in certain systems to eliminate Reaper forces was shot down.  Thus the Relay's were not destroyed only damaged but in a repairable state.  The Crucible is connected to the Citadel and as you stated the Citadel is a Relay meaning it has the exact same, if not more, energy contained in it meaning if it was destroyed there would be no possible way for the earth, let alone the fleets, to survive that explosion.  Thus again the relays were not destroyed.

Or the Crucible released the energy differently than a massive rock.